Martial arts shouldn't take years to learn.

[Tony Dismukes]

That's why I asked if the "energy" (momentum kata & all that) was applicable to all Martial Arts, I was not certain AT ALL.

Understanding "energy" in various forms (generating force, blending with force, momentum, psychological state, understanding the "feel" of a particular movement, etc, etc) is pretty much a universal concept in the martial arts.

What differs are the particulars of how that energy is applied and how it is conceptualized. The "godai" classification you originally brought up is pretty unique to those branches of the X-kan family which have been influenced by Stephen Hayes's ideas. for that matter, it sounds like the way your teacher is explaining it may have evolved a bit from Steve's original formulation.

 

[lklawson]

Well, I'm not a woman that likes to be controlled. Protected, yes. Controlled, no. My father was controlling enough, so it stems from my childhood. I'm a complete rebel now.

When I think of authority:

Autocrative leadership style - HITLER was an autocrative leader.

A MAN of true integrity supports others, he provides, he helps others grow, he doesn't compromise his standards, he doesn't look down upon others... That's what enviable leadership is to me. I don't like people in who think they're better than others.

Someone who goes out of their way to make another person feel insignificant, IS insecure to me. It's a horrible character trait & a BIG turn off coming from a man.

Most of you men on here lack empathy. You don't take into consideration that I don't think like you do, & that I think on an emotional level.

That's the difference between men & women. It's not in my biology to be able to explain in logical terms the things that I feel or experience. I express it through emotion, not on the bloody Internet. In fact, it only frustrates me. You ALL frustrate me.

I think you misunderstand. A person may or may not be immature, controlling, or, in particular, "insecure." That is not the reason for the Monkey Dance. The Monkey Dance is not about "control" per se. It is about Social Hierarchy. This is a very different thing.

 

[lklawson]

All that said, I will apologize, if what I typed made you feel that I was bullying you or trying to belittle you. It was not my intention, nor what was in my heart.

Why? Why apologize for something you weren't doing? You didn't do it, there's no need. You're not in charge of how someone else feels.

I get that you want to be nice, but you are only responsible for people you are actually responsible for.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

If any men felt like I was offending them, or disrespecting them, I deeply apologise for that.

Don't apologize. No one has the right to "not be offended" particularly if you were not trying to be offensive nor using deliberately offensive statements. There are certainly places, times, and (in some circumstances) people, in which you must adhere to a specific manner of behavior. It is, for example, in my opinion, inappropriate to engage in demeaning sexual innuendo at any time with any person. It is also inappropriate to swear and curse in church ...or to my mother. But if you have differing opinions that I do on politics, gender roles, racial issues, or whether or not Yoko Ono ruined the Beatles, well, I can be "offended" if I want and it's not your responsibility. My feelings are mine; you aren't responsible for them. Your feelings are yours and I am darn sure not responsible if you are offended if I believe something you disagree with.

Don't apologize. In general people need to get a bit thicker skins but, here on MT, most people have pretty thick skins already. And, indeed, even if they are offended by you, what are they gonna do? Say "mean" things? Pft. Who cares? There's a saying from when I was a child (back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth): "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me."

Everyone is entitled to how they want to be treated.

No they're not. Everyone is "entitled" to pretty much nothing. I like it best when people are treated how they've earned being treated but even that isn't a surety.

I AM a highly misunderstood individual though. There is no getting away from that. However, I will try my best to be more sensible.

My teacher explains kata logically as well. He is able to explain it in various ways; but I'm the one who finds it a bit difficult to put it into words; he won't have a problem with it. As I become more experienced, I will get better at explaining everything in words.

Whenever we do some Aikido or kata that involves a lot of momentum, or locks, I'll just mention the words "Steven Seagal" & everyone will know what I'm trying to say. The word "energy" is just too diverse, I've come to realise!

Keep studying. You will probably find that there is a vast world of martial arts and not everything is the way you learned it. Except that as you advance you find that everything is the same. Martial arts are all different except that they're not. I hate quoting Bruce Lee (so I won't) but his observation here, God rest his soul, is spot on.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I can tell you no one who has posted on here thinks they are better than anyone else,

I do. I also think that you're better than a lot of people. I think that Tarrycat is probably "better than" a lot of people. I think that most of the posters here on MT are "better" than a lot of people.

Did I tell you about when I got a Jury Summons for a case of a guy accused of raping a mentally handicapped girl? Yeah, I DEFINITELY think you, and probably everyone else here, is "better" than that! It might be a low bar, so to speak, but it is "better."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Why? Why apologize for something you weren't doing? You didn't do it, there's no need. You're not in charge of how someone else feels.

I get that you want to be nice, but you are only responsible for people you are actually responsible for.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

It's social lubrication. If I'm talking with someone and they're feelings get hurt, maybe it's not my fault at all. Maybe it's 10% my fault. Maybe it's 50% my fault. Maybe it's nobody's fault, but a result of different communication styles or expectations or external circumstances. Maybe I can't accurately evaluate whether or how much it's my fault due to egocentric bias and my own limited perceptions. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt anything to offer an apology as a way of reassuring the other person that I don't wish to offend and will do my best to avoid doing so in the future. Doing so tends to make people feel better and also increases the chances that the other person will listen to what I say next with an open mind.

If it becomes obvious that the other person is being completely unreasonable or manipulative, then I can step back and not play into their game, but I'd rather err on the side of niceness to begin with.

(Not presuming to speak for ShortBridge, just offering my own general thoughts on the matter.)

 

[lklawson]

I think what he's doing though is explaining how he does it which doesn't mean that that's how it should be done in that style nor how it's done anywhere else. I wouldn't take what he says as being true for all styles or even as done by others within that style.

Oh goodness, no!

What works in Ninjutsu, will not necessarily (or not AT ALL) work in other Martial Arts divisions.

The heck you say! The human body isn't particularly different across the globe. It only bends in certain ways and it moves the same. What breaks off parts from some guy with skin so white that he burns in moonlight still breaks off things from someone with high melanin content or someone with an epicanthic fold. And the same thing goes for the technique used to break stuff off. What works in one, works in all. Now, if you want to argue strategies and approaches, such as is typified by the "linear vs circular" debate or the "ground vs standing" debate and how well each can mesh in the others methodology and system, well, that's one thing. But they can be made to mesh.

 

[hoshin1600]

hey never express an opinion

Musashi's description of Iwo no mi describes a stance as being the "body of a rock" To derive immovable power from a very low stance. This can be seen in Sumo. Those that practice his school can adhere to this theory. But.............. it was written for his students.

But it was not just in kenjutsu attiude. It can also be seen in Western arts. Classical shools dont grade. That's what makes em 'classical'. Those that profess to do classical arts and grade are usually a made up mish-mash.

Japanese do tests. They even test for 10 minutes after a school day. Japanese sit, shut up. They neven ever ask questions and listen. So how do you find out if they absorbed what you taught them? Tests/gradings. It's a Japanese education thing!

View attachment 21025

I pulled those two lines from the Daihonzan Chozen JI cannon written by Omori Sogen. A linage i belonged to. we would read the cannon before every practice.
i figured you and Chris would be the only ones who would even have a clue as to what i was talking about. of course i was making that post in sarcasm, making a point of the uselessness of using words which are more of "insider" terminology rather than common speak that everyone can grasp.

 

[Tarrycat]

Oh goodness, no!

What works in Ninjutsu, will not necessarily (or not AT ALL) work in other Martial Arts divisions. Each one is unique on its own.

That's why I asked if the "energy" (momentum kata & all that) was applicable to all Martial Arts, I was not certain AT ALL.

I'm not certain I understand the question implicit in the last sentence (and I'm apparently too lazy to go back and look up where you originally asked it ), so if my answer doesn't fit, that's why.

IMO, there's always some consideration of energy/momentum. Different arts look at it differently. Within Nihon Goshin Aikido, as I teach it, I could roughly group my teachings into three categories (for standing work - I'd have to think how this fits with groundwork).

There's clashing force, which I tend to think of as like when you get hit just right by a 3-foot wave at the beach. It hits you hard, but it's relaxed when it does it. This is how most striking arts seem to deliver their strikes. A leg sweep often uses this kind of force, too.

There's blending force, which I tend to think of ask like when a wave at the beach lifts you up and carries you, without hitting. This can be very smooth (a gentle swell lifts you and moves you a bit before letting your feet settle down) or rough (like when a wave catches you and tumbles you across the ocean floor before it passes). A good hip throw can have this in it. (NOTE: The smooth version of this could be seen as being like a strong wind catching a bag you're carrying, pulling you off your feet.)

Then there's dropping force, which is like someone suddenly attached a large stone to you, then let go of it. Sometimes the stone is stationary, and drops straight down (Judo's drop seoi nage is a good example of this), and sometimes it's like the rock is swinging past on a rope when it gets attached to you.

There are probably others I could come up with, but everytime I find something that doesn't fit in these three, it seems to be mostly muscular force, where I'm forcing a technique that doesn't quite fit. So, I ignore the exceptions, and use these three as guidelines. If something doesn't fit into them, I check to make sure I'm not doing something wrong.[/QUOTE]

I was giving an opinion based on the Godai, I mentioned the different energies associated with each "element", or however every other martial art would like to view it as; & then it escalated from there. I never stated facts, only opinions. Some guy said that it was founded by Steven K. Hayes, my one Genbukan friend says the opposite. So, really, I would just like to know the truth, because I don't want to be misinformed if ever someone asks me these questions. I don't want to lead people onto the wrong path.

Exactly what you're describing right now, is how we implement our kata; sometimes explaining to me is not enough, & then my teacher will train with me. By then I can grasp the entire concept. It takes beginners a while to tap into that feeling... I'm naturally a VERY tense person; & when I tense up, it makes it a lot harder for me to do the kata... I'm used to boxing, & lifting weights.

I know my explanations were of no help; but I will look for some videos online, & show you guys the techniques when I have some time on my hands. I'd love to share it with you!

Thank you for the input, it was very helpful!

I never asked you what division you train in? .. I never asked ANYONE...

 

[lklawson]

I'm naturally a VERY tense person; & when I tense up, it makes it a lot harder for me to do the kata... I'm used to boxing, & lifting weights.

Tensing up is bad in boxing too, unless you just happen to like telegraphing to your sparring partner.

Tensing in lifting is bad too. Off hand, the only exercise I can think of in which "tensing up" is not a bad thing would be Charles Atlas' "Dynamic Tension" system and its derivatives. Pretty much everything else, it becomes a hindrance.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was giving an opinion based on the Godai, I mentioned the different energies associated with each "element", or however every other martial art would like to view it as; & then it escalated from there. I never stated facts, only opinions. Some guy said that it was founded by Steven K. Hayes, my one Genbukan friend says the opposite. So, really, I would just like to know the truth, because I don't want to be misinformed if ever someone asks me these questions. I don't want to lead people onto the wrong path.

Exactly what you're describing right now, is how we implement our kata; sometimes explaining to me is not enough, & then my teacher will train with me. By then I can grasp the entire concept. It takes beginners a while to tap into that feeling... I'm naturally a VERY tense person; & when I tense up, it makes it a lot harder for me to do the kata... I'm used to boxing, & lifting weights.

I know my explanations were of no help; but I will look for some videos online, & show you guys the techniques when I have some time on my hands. I'd love to share it with you!

Thank you for the input, it was very helpful!

I never asked you what division you train in? .. I never asked ANYONE...

To your last comment - I'm not sure if that was a response to something in particular. I often mention the art I teach/train in, because it provides context to folks who are familiar with the type of art.

Another thought - boxing benefits from relaxation, too. Someone too tense (or, perhaps more accurately, incorrectly tense) in boxing will feel the punches more, deliver less power, and move more slowly. Learning to use relaxation and tension properly is a common theme across martial arts. Most people have some "natural" incorrect tension - we unlearn it (it's actually a learned tension) over time.

 

[Hyoho]

I pulled those two lines from the Daihonzan Chozen JI cannon written by Omori Sogen. A linage i belonged to. we would read the cannon before every practice.
i figured you and Chris would be the only ones who would even have a clue as to what i was talking about. of course i was making that post in sarcasm, making a point of the uselessness of using words which are more of "insider" terminology rather than common speak that everyone can grasp.

Still trying to figure out where the "hey never express an opinion" bit got tagged on to the beggining of the post. Not my language. Sorry about that.

 

[Ironbear24]

You are what is wrong with the martial arts community. I can spend hours rebutting every statement you said but in the end it comes down to this.

You do not know, so you've taken some shotokan? So what, I have taken a couple of cooking classes but that doesn't mean I'm some authority on cooking when there are others who have years and decades over me.

You speak of kata out of ignorance, kata is not only to help with fighting, in fact it has little to do with it. Kata is about teaching you principles that when reflected upon will help you be a better fighter, it also is more of a workout as many emphasis slow motions in very deep stances.

This is to build your feet, shins and overall legs to be strong. Strong roots mean a better fighter, kata teaches breathing, if you are not breathing properly you will be gassed out and be more prone to getting injured, ever take a bunch as you are breathing in rather than out? It is not pleasant. Try throwing a strike while breathing in rather than out, you see less power in it.

Now as for the MMA fighter beating a wing Chun "master". That all comes down to methods of training which is more on the individuals rather than "style." My karate we spar and do many live drills, but many times we also do lighter stuff depending on which students are around. You cannot train heavy all the time, if I were to do iron shirt training all of the time I would literally break.

If you spar less than someone else then you will more than likely lose to them, no matter the styles, it is really that simple. The best fighters even in MMA all have traditional martial arts under their belts, think about that as well and I mention this because you to like MMA.

Now that brings the next point. You enjoy enjoy what you enjoy and that is ok, do what you enjoy and no one will have issues. However when you make it a point to come out and belittle other things then that is not only wasting your own time, time that you could be spending doing what you enjoy.

But it makes you appear like a fool, but I suppose that's to be expected when you're "fuhrer" is an utter pile of crap.

 

[Tez3]

The heck you say! The human body isn't particularly different across the globe. It only bends in certain ways and it moves the same. What breaks off parts from some guy with skin so white that he burns in moonlight still breaks off things from someone with high melanin content or someone with an epicanthic fold. And the same thing goes for the technique used to break stuff off. What works in one, works in all. Now, if you want to argue strategies and approaches, such as is typified by the "linear vs circular" debate or the "ground vs standing" debate and how well each can mesh in the others methodology and system, well, that's one thing. But they can be made to mesh.

Er no, I was referring to the earth wind and fire ( aren't they a group or am I showing my age) part of teaching, it may be true for that particular instructor but isn't common elsewhere. I've looked it up and it seems more used in Reiki, healing and spiritual type thing rather than martial arts.

 

[lklawson]

Er no, I was referring to the earth wind and fire ( aren't they a group or am I showing my age) part of teaching, it may be true for that particular instructor but isn't common elsewhere. I've looked it up and it seems more used in Reiki, healing and spiritual type thing rather than martial arts.

Unless there was an account hack, Tez didn't write what I replied to, Tarrycat did.

Tarrycat wrote, "What works in Ninjutsu, will not necessarily (or not AT ALL) work in other Martial Arts divisions." I disagree with that assessment.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tarrycat]

Tensing up is bad in boxing too, unless you just happen to like telegraphing to your sparring partner.

Tensing in lifting is bad too. Off hand, the only exercise I can think of in which "tensing up" is not a bad thing would be Charles Atlas' "Dynamic Tension" system and its derivatives. Pretty much everything else, it becomes a hindrance.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Lol. Well then I'm just a very tense person. I've noticed that while I'm sleeping (if I wake up during the night), my fingers are clenched. It's grown into a bad habit, but it's also because of stress. I usually drink muscle relaxants before I go to bed. It helps a lot. I have a mild case of anxiety.

My Sensei once told me to drink a chill pill, because it was that bad.

I'll get over it though. I hope.

Thank you for the wise input. I didn't know that. I only did some boxing for fitness, but it's still good to know. Perhaps I just need to take meditation more serious & focus on that...

 

[Tarrycat]

You are what is wrong with the martial arts community. I can spend hours rebutting every statement you said but in the end it comes down to this.

You do not know, so you've taken some shotokan? So what, I have taken a couple of cooking classes but that doesn't mean I'm some authority on cooking when there are others who have years and decades over me.

You speak of kata out of ignorance, kata is not only to help with fighting, in fact it has little to do with it. Kata is about teaching you principles that when reflected upon will help you be a better fighter, it also is more of a workout as many emphasis slow motions in very deep stances.

This is to build your feet, shins and overall legs to be strong. Strong roots mean a better fighter, kata teaches breathing, if you are not breathing properly you will be gassed out and be more prone to getting injured, ever take a bunch as you are breathing in rather than out? It is not pleasant. Try throwing a strike while breathing in rather than out, you see less power in it.

Now as for the MMA fighter beating a wing Chun "master". That all comes down to methods of training which is more on the individuals rather than "style." My karate we spar and do many live drills, but many times we also do lighter stuff depending on which students are around. You cannot train heavy all the time, if I were to do iron shirt training all of the time I would literally break.

If you spar less than someone else then you will more than likely lose to them, no matter the styles, it is really that simple. The best fighters even in MMA all have traditional martial arts under their belts, think about that as well and I mention this because you to like MMA.

Now that brings the next point. You enjoy enjoy what you enjoy and that is ok, do what you enjoy and no one will have issues. However when you make it a point to come out and belittle other things then that is not only wasting your own time, time that you could be spending doing what you enjoy.

But it makes you appear like a fool, but I suppose that's to be expected when you're "fuhrer" is an utter pile of crap.

Who are you talking to on here if I may ask?

 

[Tarrycat]

Unless there was an account hack, Tez didn't write what I replied to, Tarrycat did.

Tarrycat wrote, "What works in Ninjutsu, will not necessarily (or not AT ALL) work in other Martial Arts divisions." I disagree with that assessment.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

As they say here in broken Zulu: "EISH!"

Now I'm confused about the messages...

I'm very curious why you may disagree? Perhaps I can learn a bit more from your input. Have you tried some Ninjutsu in your art? If so, which kata did you like most & why?

 

[Tez3]

Unless there was an account hack, Tez didn't write what I replied to, Tarrycat did.

Tarrycat wrote, "What works in Ninjutsu, will not necessarily (or not AT ALL) work in other Martial Arts divisions." I disagree with that assessment.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

When I answered your comment, my comment was in your quote box, nothing there now though. Very confusing indeed. the site has been a bit weird recently.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When I answered your comment, my comment was in your quote box, nothing there now though. Very confusing indeed. the site has been a bit weird recently.

You know, I thought I had imagined that, Tez. But I'm fairly certain that when I first read his comment, the quote said "Tez3". Weird, indeed.