Martial art A vs. Martial Art B... here we go again...and again... and again...

[MJS]

One exemplary thing about BJJ is the belt system. Simply no kid blackbelts at all until they are 16 or 18 depending on the instructor. That in and of itself does a lot to maintain quality!

QFT!!! And this is one of the many things I like about BJJ!!! I could only wish other arts would follow these principles. Funny....people cry and moan if they walk into a TKD school and dont get a BB after 2yrs, but people seem to be perfectly cool with the fact that they could wait 10 or so years before reaching BB in BJJ.

 

[MJS]

Ahh brings back memories of my old days in Japanese Jujutsu.... (Early 70s)... you could not get a black belt until you were 18 back then.

Sadly, this may translate to wait 30 years and you will be seeing 10 year old BJJ black belts

But I will admit right here although I am not a big fan of BJJ for myself but I do respect what I see as it applies to training and integrity in, what use to be all but now is, most schools in my area.

That, IMHO, will be a very sad day, if that were to happen.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That, IMHO, will be a very sad day, if that were to happen.

Agreed

Because I'm with you

I could only wish other arts would follow these principles. Funny....people cry and moan if they walk into a TKD school and dont get a BB after 2yrs, but people seem to be perfectly cool with the fact that they could wait 10 or so years before reaching BB in BJJ.

 

[Steve]

Points taken. I think there are times though, that some teachers do see flaws, and make changes, thus often making them the 'black sheep' of that art. Ex: There are things that I think are flawed in the Kenpo system. I mention this, only to be told that there are no flaws in the system, but instead the flaw lies with MY Kenpo. Now, that may be the case, however, when I talk to others and they echo my thoughts, well, that tells me something. The difference between me and alot of Kenpo people, is that I'm not in fear that the Kenpo Gods will strike me down. LOL. I think where the problem lies, is that some people are afraid to admit certain things suck. LOL.

I guess thats why I said its the person, not the art.

MJS, this is very interesting for me, because we are both clearly seeing the same things, but drawing different conclusions. Personally, I agree with you that individuals see flaws, make changes and are sometimes made the "black sheep" by the group. But where you see the 'artist' as the focal point, breaking away, I see the "art" exerting pressure on the individual to maintain the status quo (for good or ill).

In other words, if an individual starts deviating from the working norm, he's going to be pressured to fall back in line by the group. This can be good, if the norm is working. Of course, if the norm isn't working, this is bad. But in both cases, we're talking about a group as opposed to an individual. Once again, art over artist.

 

[Stac3y]

My school doesn't give kids a "real" black belt; only a junior black belt. It takes 5-6 years. They then have to start over at yellow belt in the adult program to get the real deal. No one under 16 is allowed to get an adult black belt. In case you're wondering, junior black belts look different in addition to having a different meaning and different requirements. They are black with a wide white stripe through them.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

My school doesn't give kids a "real" black belt; only a junior black belt. It takes 5-6 years. They then have to start over at yellow belt in the adult program to get the real deal. No one under 16 is allowed to get an adult black belt. In case you're wondering, junior black belts look different in addition to having a different meaning and different requirements. They are black with a wide white stripe through them.

Just like most tkd schools. A child cant get a real black belt until 16-18. Prior to that they basically get a 'probationary' black belt which even looks different. I would bet my house that bjj will have child black belts within the next decade. I already know of bjj schools where you will get a black belt very quickly. As long as bjj stays "popular" then its only a matter of time.

 

[Steve]

Just like most tkd schools. A child cant get a real black belt until 16-18. Prior to that they basically get a 'probationary' black belt which even looks different. I would bet my house that bjj will have child black belts within the next decade. I already know of bjj schools where you will get a black belt very quickly. As long as bjj stays "popular" then its only a matter of time.

You keep saying that. What schools are these where you can get a BJJ black belt very quickly? Most of the BJJ black belts in Australia are John Will's current and former students. John Will is one of the "Dirty Dozen," the first 12 non-brazilian black belts, training directly with the Machado brothers. Being a John Will black belt is a pretty big deal.

Several others I'm aware of are Gracie Barra affiliates, including schools in Sydney, Perth and Blacktown. Gracie Barra has very consistent standards throughout the world. The organization as a whole is well represented at every level of competition.

I'm really curious which specific schools you think are problematic.

 

[DinoSmurfy]

I think it's just human nature. We want to compete and end up on top. After all, we spent years training for our art. Some people feel better knowing that they spent all those years training for the greatest MA.

 

[Steve]

Just like most tkd schools. A child cant get a real black belt until 16-18. Prior to that they basically get a 'probationary' black belt which even looks different. I would bet my house that bjj will have child black belts within the next decade. I already know of bjj schools where you will get a black belt very quickly. As long as bjj stays "popular" then its only a matter of time.

Hey Ralph. I just thought I'd follow up on this once. If you've got some specific names of schools, you can PM me or shoot me an email if you prefer not to mention them on the board. I can pretty easily verify the reputation, and if you're right I'll definitely say so.

I just want to follow up and post about it one way or another because you're alleging that the standards in BJJ are detiorating rapidly and I haven't seen any evidence of this. I can't in good conscience let this non-specific allegation just go unchallenged. That would imply that I agree, and I don't.

I'm not going to hound you about this. I'll accept that if you don't have any further comment, that we can let this presumption that standards are rapidly slipping be put to rest.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Hey Ralph. I just thought I'd follow up on this once. If you've got some specific names of schools, you can PM me or shoot me an email if you prefer not to mention them on the board. I can pretty easily verify the reputation, and if you're right I'll definitely say so.

I just want to follow up and post about it one way or another because you're alleging that the standards in BJJ are detiorating rapidly and I haven't seen any evidence of this. I can't in good conscience let this non-specific allegation just go unchallenged. That would imply that I agree, and I don't.

I'm not going to hound you about this. I'll accept that if you don't have any further comment, that we can let this presumption that standards are rapidly slipping be put to rest.

I would definetely pm you any clubs I hear of as I dont want to de-fame anyone over the net. I have a couple of mates who do bjj at reputable schools and they are always whinging about the new schools opening in our area and the lowered standards and ease to get a black belt. When I next speak with them I will get the details and let you know. From what they have told me the guys instructing at these clubs have no sort of lineage to 'real' bjj and are just using the name to get students. Im certainly not bagging out bjj, if taught correctly it appears to be a good system, particularly when mixed with a stand up art, but popularity has a tendancy to affect martial arts in a negative way.

 

[Xue Sheng]

:duh: OOPS, I posted this in the wrong thread....

Just move along there is nothing to see here