Marriage = having a witness to your life??
- Thread starter Jenna
- Start date
OP
OP
Hey Terry my wise friendterryl965 said:
.. if you and your good lady share these sentiments between you and you mean them sincerely then NO this does not sound corny at all it sounds lovely and it pleases me a VERY great deal to know that despite all of what we read in papers bout marriage being a dying institution and made to believe that good marriages are a rarity that you and other folks good enough to reply to me are proof against the doomsayers that this is not the case at all..Thank you my friend and congratulations on 17 and I will wish for you that you have many many more than that to come
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
OP
OP
Thank you all my friends for your careful and lovely replies.. OK.. I put all my responses here in ONE post cos it was suggested to me that I was just a big gloryhound replying to everyone just to bump up my post counts or something! and but that is not true at all I PROMISE I do not even care bout that I just like talking to you all SO much and but anyway I will put them all in the one so I cannot be accused of this...
SO....
To David thank you for sharing this and I thinkyou have articulated this admirably and I would imagine exactly that a relationship such as yours can only be understood through experience and not via explanations and the very fact that you have DIFFICULTY in explaining something so overwhelmingly positive throws plenty of light on how you are feeling if you understand what I mean..
Thank you again.. and I am sending a few little wishes your way..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Rich well thank you for sharing ahh.. and naturally after your experiences it is understandable that your view is skewed the one way and which is natural.. but you describe marriage up above as though it was designed for a frail woman to cotton onto and shore herself up with some stalwart breadwinner while she remains barefoot pregnant and tied to the stove.. I do not know if that was what marriage was "designed" for.. For me marriage is a natural progression from a natural desire in all humans to find partners to connect to physically and spiritually and you know because you would agree I hope because you have done it already.. and the fact of the marriage itself is simply to say IMO.. I am going to commit my life to a partnership for good and bad.. But you are correct and as Swordlady has said marriage is not for everyone.. some are happily single some are unable to commit to lifelong monogamy and this I would certainly understand also and but that does not mean the institution cannot thrive if partners are sufficiently complementary to each other and are prepared to adapt to the constant changes do you not think?? anyway that is just my opinion and you would say WTH do I know bout anything.. 
But I would say the most important thing now is that YOU are happy with yourself as a person.. but I still think we do seek and it is our nature to seek longterm partners would you agree?
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Fluffy thank you again for this it is another lovely affirmation of how well marriage can work and of course I am envious of what you have together and good luck to you I say.. be good to yourselves for me!
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To John thank you for sharing! And you are correct we meet folk in so many different and unexpected ways whether through fate or coincidence I think it would be lovely to look back on after a long period of time and I do not know bout you describing yourself as "one of the lucky ones" I do not know what percentage of luck is involved but maybe there is only a small % luck and a large % love.. I mean to have 13 years of just "luck" would suggest to me you could have been a wealthy poker player by now!! no.. I think luck is only a small part of what has kept you tight together for that length of time.. anyway.. take care of yourselves for loads more sets of 13..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Matt M thank you my friend and you are right people are still separate entities no doubt but I think the idea of the witness was that no matter how trivial the stuff we do.. and we all have to do mundane things.. but no matter how small there is in a marriage always someone who will care or at least BE THERE through it. I do not know if that makes sense from your position.. as I say I am only looking to learn something and not trying to sound authoritative on anything.. Thank you again!! I wish you well.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To mister Kreth now I will not hear that bout the yummy J-Lo she is just like me.. Jenna from the block.. well.. cept she has her own Learjet which would seem to belie that notion but ahh.. still she is food for the eyes and what is wrong with that?? Do not tell me you watch Angelina or Jeri Ryan because of their great diction or projection or acting methodologies, no sir! Anyway if God had designed a woman just for men to ogle at he would not have had to think too long before deriving an Angelina Jolie / Jeri Ryan hybrid .. ugh.. and these women are just TOO much of the one thing and not enough of the other.. and I do not even know what conversation I am having now, ha!
And anyway I am STILL waiting for that call from Colin Farrell ..pffft.. and you would not believe me if I said I have met quite a few celebs here when they go on their promotion rounds out of Leicester Square and most of them go to the same clubs afterwards but Colin Farrell was the sweetest but a little impudent and says um.. what was on his mind.. I have plenty of tales for you bout but you would not even believe me anyway I would imagine..
OK stay outta trouble now..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
~~~~
To Swordlady .. ah now my friend I did not use the term "refusal" you said that yourself and now the word "refusal" really DOES make you sound defiant! ha! Nah I am just joking with you as you will notice I can do that from behind the safety of this bladeproof perspex screen LOL.. and but I am still wondering you have not answered me you cheeky girl.. would you reconsider to marriage if you met the exact right match for you? That is my questionfor you.. Who knows that might happen this very day and you lolling around town with your big "DEFIANTLY SINGLE (AND HAPPY)" T Shirt ahh that would be the missed opportunity I think.. ***checks integrity of perspex screen***
Ahh you know I am just joking I hope I am not offensive to you.. I love you all too much to be hurtful I amjust playing..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~~
To MRE.. wow thank you you have elaborated on the witness theme exactly as I had thought it for myself.. this is amazingly put and thank you for sharing and I wish you well my friend
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
SO....
To David
thank you for sharing this and I thinkyou have articulated this admirably and I would imagine exactly that a relationship such as yours can only be understood through experience and not via explanations and the very fact that you have DIFFICULTY in explaining something so overwhelmingly positive throws plenty of light on how you are feeling if you understand what I mean..Thank you again.. and I am sending a few little wishes your way..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Rich well thank you for sharing
ahh.. and naturally after your experiences it is understandable that your view is skewed the one way and which is natural.. but you describe marriage up above as though it was designed for a frail woman to cotton onto and shore herself up with some stalwart breadwinner while she remains barefoot pregnant and tied to the stove.. I do not know if that was what marriage was "designed" for.. For me marriage is a natural progression from a natural desire in all humans to find partners to connect to physically and spiritually and you know because you would agree I hope because you have done it already.. and the fact of the marriage itself is simply to say IMO.. I am going to commit my life to a partnership for good and bad.. But you are correct and as Swordlady has said marriage is not for everyone.. some are happily single some are unable to commit to lifelong monogamy and this I would certainly understand also and but that does not mean the institution cannot thrive if partners are sufficiently complementary to each other and are prepared to adapt to the constant changes do you not think?? anyway that is just my opinion and you would say WTH do I know bout anything.. But I would say the most important thing now is that YOU are happy with yourself as a person.. but I still think we do seek and it is our nature to seek longterm partners would you agree?
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Fluffy
thank you again for this it is another lovely affirmation of how well marriage can work and of course I am envious of what you have together and good luck to you I say.. be good to yourselves for me!Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To John
thank you for sharing! And you are correct we meet folk in so many different and unexpected ways whether through fate or coincidence I think it would be lovely to look back on after a long period of time and I do not know bout you describing yourself as "one of the lucky ones" I do not know what percentage of luck is involved but maybe there is only a small % luck and a large % love.. I mean to have 13 years of just "luck" would suggest to me you could have been a wealthy poker player by now!! no.. I think luck is only a small part of what has kept you tight together for that length of time.. anyway.. take care of yourselves for loads more sets of 13..Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Matt M
thank you my friend and you are right people are still separate entities no doubt but I think the idea of the witness was that no matter how trivial the stuff we do.. and we all have to do mundane things.. but no matter how small there is in a marriage always someone who will care or at least BE THERE through it. I do not know if that makes sense from your position.. as I say I am only looking to learn something and not trying to sound authoritative on anything.. Thank you again!! I wish you well.Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To mister Kreth now I will not hear that bout the yummy J-Lo she is just like me.. Jenna from the block.. well.. cept she has her own Learjet which would seem to belie that notion but ahh.. still she is food for the eyes and what is wrong with that?? Do not tell me you watch Angelina or Jeri Ryan because of their great diction or projection or acting methodologies, no sir! Anyway if God had designed a woman just for men to ogle at he would not have had to think too long before deriving an Angelina Jolie / Jeri Ryan hybrid .. ugh.. and these women are just TOO much of the one thing and not enough of the other.. and I do not even know what conversation I am having now, ha!
And anyway I am STILL waiting for that call from Colin Farrell ..pffft.. and you would not believe me if I said I have met quite a few celebs here when they go on their promotion rounds out of Leicester Square and most of them go to the same clubs afterwards but Colin Farrell was the sweetest but a little impudent and says um.. what was on his mind.. I have plenty of tales for you bout but you would not even believe me anyway I would imagine..
OK stay outta trouble now..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
~~~~
To Swordlady .. ah now my friend I did not use the term "refusal" you said that yourself and now the word "refusal" really DOES make you sound defiant! ha!
Nah I am just joking with you as you will notice I can do that from behind the safety of this bladeproof perspex screen LOL.. and but I am still wondering you have not answered me you cheeky girl.. would you reconsider to marriage if you met the exact right match for you? That is my questionfor you.. Who knows that might happen this very day and you lolling around town with your big "DEFIANTLY SINGLE (AND HAPPY)" T Shirt ahh that would be the missed opportunity I think.. ***checks integrity of perspex screen***Ahh you know I am just joking I hope I am not offensive to you.. I love you all too much to be hurtful I amjust playing..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~~
To MRE..
wow thank you you have elaborated on the witness theme exactly as I had thought it for myself.. this is amazingly put and thank you for sharing and I wish you well my friend Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Jenna said:To Rich well thank you for sharing
But I would say the most important thing now is that YOU are happy with yourself as a person.. but I still think we do seek and it is our nature to seek longterm partners would you agree?
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Jenna,
Me GROK! Me hit women with club and we married.
(* When I have found from my experience the women hit the men and let them know when it is time to get married. *)Actually, Marriage is an old institute, that has been around, and it was created during a time frame when women and children were considered property of non-entities.
Sad I know, but hopefully we can say there has been some growth in some form of culture. Marriage as a partnership of equals is a merger. If done as a business arrangement it seems so un-emotional and lacking in love. If done out of "Love" only, with the expectation that love will carry them through then the hard parts, this is bad as well, for it takes work by both to make it work.
If one person is the only one working on the relationship then that person has a tendacy of lossing and or compromising everything for the other. And for that "old time" woman who was raised as such and expected such maybe that was fine.
My point is that today one can be the heir of another without being married. One can get pregnant and not be stoned or kicked out of town and raise a child alone. A man can actually obtain custody of his kids in a divorce, (* Having friends who have had children below the age of 12 who were able to fight for or obtain full custody. *) as well as share in the growth of children's development and not have the same last name (* Step father or family friend called "uncle" or what have you *), with out the children being outcasts of society.
So, if marriage is entered into between two people who have the same desires and goals then this is good. But, we as a society have come up with ways of dealing with all the other issues, so it is not required, by law or by culture norms or standards. It may be an issue of religion and faith and that is fine as well, for those who follow that road.
bluemtn
Senior Master
Honestly, the whole idea of marriage scares the crap out of me! Now, don't let what I'm about to write scare you, this is just me venting and I know better (a little). I've seen quite a few marriages end bad, some of which were flat out bad relationships. I've been lucky and my parents are still happily together after 40 years, but I have relatives gone through some doosies- ranging from just don't get along, to abuse of various kinds. It's worse when children are involved. What have I learned? Not everyone out there are like those I've seen, and to trust my gut instincts. There's probably more to be gained from the experiences, but it's hard to think about it and write it all down.
Jenna said:To Swordlady .. ah now my friend I did not use the term "refusal" you said that yourself and now the word "refusal" really DOES make you sound defiant! ha!
Ahh you know I am just joking I hope I am not offensive to you.. I love you all too much to be hurtful I amjust playing..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Nah...you haven't offended me, Jenna. Honestly, marriage isn't appealing to me at all. As for the "perfect match", I strongly doubt that will happen...
I have often told my friends who were thinking about getting married that I had 2 things to say to them.
1. Do you like freedom?
Typical answer is "Oh yeah, I like to come and go as I please. Sleep when I want and do what I want".
2. Do you like money?
Typical answer is "Yes"
Then my answer is; If you like both of those then don't get married. Undoubtetly you will lose 1 or the other or both. Marriage is such a struggle of give and take. People also change to their surroundings. This can mean from age, friends, co-workers, lifestyle. The person you think you married in the beginning might not be the same person 12yrs. later. Maybe 15yrs. later. There are so many variables associated with marriage that yes
It ain't for everyone.
1. Do you like freedom?
Typical answer is "Oh yeah, I like to come and go as I please. Sleep when I want and do what I want".
2. Do you like money?
Typical answer is "Yes"
Then my answer is; If you like both of those then don't get married. Undoubtetly you will lose 1 or the other or both. Marriage is such a struggle of give and take. People also change to their surroundings. This can mean from age, friends, co-workers, lifestyle. The person you think you married in the beginning might not be the same person 12yrs. later. Maybe 15yrs. later. There are so many variables associated with marriage that yes
It ain't for everyone.
I didn't really care for those quote at first, mostly because of the word witness. To me 'witness' seems so impersonal and third-partyish. To me, witness is along the lines of a spectator. Not thinking of a better word off the top of my head, and thinking that the word witness didn't fully appreciate the involvement and intimacy that my wife and I share I started searching for synonyms for witness and I couldn't find a better word.
Anyway, to get back to your question. I think that answer is a definite sometimes. Just like the word witness may mean something else to me, the institution of marriage (haha) may hold different things for different people. How one perceives and understands, not only marriage, but their partner, probably also changes over time. They are not snapshots in time, but ever changing.
Also, while 'researching' your question I ran across this blog or whatever. You may find it entertaining or at least related to your question. Oh, I also found that the movie was "Shall We Dance".
http://people.monstersandcritics.com/article_1132190.php/Wedlock_Marriage_Mirror
Anyway, to get back to your question. I think that answer is a definite sometimes.
Just like the word witness may mean something else to me, the institution of marriage (haha) may hold different things for different people. How one perceives and understands, not only marriage, but their partner, probably also changes over time. They are not snapshots in time, but ever changing.Also, while 'researching' your question I ran across this blog or whatever. You may find it entertaining or at least related to your question. Oh, I also found that the movie was "Shall We Dance".
http://people.monstersandcritics.com/article_1132190.php/Wedlock_Marriage_Mirror
John Brewer
Blue Belt
To John thank you for sharing! And you are correct we meet folk in so many different and unexpected ways whether through fate or coincidence I think it would be lovely to look back on after a long period of time and I do not know bout you describing yourself as "one of the lucky ones" I do not know what percentage of luck is involved but maybe there is only a small % luck and a large % love.. I mean to have 13 years of just "luck" would suggest to me you could have been a wealthy poker player by now!! no.. I think luck is only a small part of what has kept you tight together for that length of time.. anyway.. take care of yourselves for loads more sets of 13..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Thanks for responding! It's just my opinion, but I think we were brought together by God.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Thanks for responding! It's just my opinion, but I think we were brought together by God.
tradrockrat
2nd Black Belt
Well, this is where I lose my "man badge" and get my macho status revoked, but I was a "never get married in a million years" guy. Loved my freedoom, happy with myself, and pleased with where life was taking me - though I would have liked to get ther faster -
Then I met a chick on a blind date. slowly over the course of a year I realized I had found something I had never known was missing. She IS a witness to my life and I'm hers. WE are best friends, confidants, and she actually enables me to enjoy true freedom. I went from a certified player (one friend was speechless for several minutes after I announced my engagement, then responded with, "You? What? But you wrote the book... Oh ****!") to an equal partner in a much more rich and diversified life.
We've been together four years now and we celebrated our 1 year wedding anniversary two weeks ago.
Then I met a chick on a blind date. slowly over the course of a year I realized I had found something I had never known was missing. She IS a witness to my life and I'm hers. WE are best friends, confidants, and she actually enables me to enjoy true freedom. I went from a certified player (one friend was speechless for several minutes after I announced my engagement, then responded with, "You? What? But you wrote the book... Oh ****!") to an equal partner in a much more rich and diversified life.
We've been together four years now and we celebrated our 1 year wedding anniversary two weeks ago.
OP
OP
To Rich.. hey big guy.. you said this here..
Take it easy..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
to my friend tkdgirl.. I hope you are well today.. and are you saying my friend that you have maybe an aversion at this time to marriage but if you met the ideal match for you would you not at least consider it? I know that is personal I will not pry but I wonder do you not take anything from all the wonderful positive posts here already? thank you again and look after yourself..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
to Swordlady... Oooh you are SO evasive like the diplomat you are and not answering my question AGAIN my friend I think ifyou are THIS evasive when you fight you must surely present nothing but empty space to your opponents strikes!! but see now you have me like that little terrier I mentioned somewhere else but i promise will not go chasing you for anymore answers but I am curious why no perfect match exists for you? And you are not paying attention to your signature quote and I worry it is only there as a token... but I will say instead I am only delving because I feel the same as you as if no perfect match exists for me because I am too hard to please.. I like doing what I want and disappearing away where nobody knows and do not like dependence (or dependents)..
And it strikes me as funny that we expect to find the perfect match working in our workplace or training in our dojo or living in our town or our county or even our country.. out of 6bn folk what makes us assume the best match is right under our noses anyway? and what makes us think that when we find the perfect match.. there aint an even better match? out of 6bn it seems statistically improbable that we hit the target straightaway and yet many folk get married on exactly this basis.. some last forever and that of course disproves the point but some are like Britney just for the weekend and others marriages are like a big scientific trial and error experiment like Liz Taylor..
Ahh but see I say all these things but I am STILL happy to think of being married some day and enjoy reading bout how amazing a thing a marriage can be from all the folk who took time to post.. Oh well maybe i am just naive.. let us hope we find whatever it is we are looking for..
F24 seeks M24+.. Russell Brand ideally (Mmmmm..) but will compromise for kind heart + GSOH + viable haircut
Take care
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Jason thank you for this and I am not certain if your cynicism is from your married experience or from outside observation?? So you are saying marriage = loss of existing freedom and money too? wow that is a really constrained marriage where both partners are a drain on each other and there is no sense of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts (combined monies) or enjoying each others company such that freedom isn't desired so much.. oh well.. bang goes that idea, ha!
Be good..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Crushing hey thanks for this and tell me please.. does your ID imply that you actively crush things? apologies if I misinterpret.. anyway yes you are a good researcher and found the name of that film which I did not even see the beginning of and would not have made a point of watching but was really rather nice in a girly way.. but the term witness I am not certain you are picking the meaning and I understand the interpretation you choose but for me anyway the witness is not some distant objective outside observer but rather someone to share intimately even the smallest of issues and episodes which to anyone else outside the marriage would seem trivial and unimportant.. and no matter what in a working marriage there is always someone to share.. well.. it makes sense to me anyway whether it is theoretical or actual I cannot know for myself and which is why I asked for opinion
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To John that is a very confident assertion my friend and I would share your view I think but let me ask you to step aside from that if possible .. I would wonder is it easy to say something is divinely inspired when it is good .. but what does that mean for those who find themselves in marriages that are no good.. or worse.. abusive?? what I wonder did THEY do wrong? Are all marriages not divinely blessed? Or just the those with ceremonies performed in places of worship? Or just those between the religiously faithful? I am interested in your view my friend
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
to Tradrockrat hey this is a really special thing and you put this so well.. see I think I might be a "never in a million years" person but it is good to hear you recount this as "never say never".. and well done and congratulations on your anniversary.. hope you had a great celebration!! and I hope your verve never dwindles.. good luck
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Marriage as a partnership of equals is a merger. If done as a business arrangement it seems so un-emotional and lacking in love. If done out of "Love" only, with the expectation that love will carry them through then the hard parts, this is bad as well, for it takes work by both to make it work.
if love exists and is present then everything else will feed off that, right? meaning the good stuff gets better and the bad stuff is more manageable being shared by two equal and interested partners. Is this not right? Obviously lose the love and the marriage engine loses most of its cylinders.. I dunno am I just showing myself up in my ignorance? Probably.. but anyway that is why I am asking...
Take it easy..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
to my friend tkdgirl.. I hope you are well today.. and are you saying my friend that you have maybe an aversion at this time to marriage but if you met the ideal match for you would you not at least consider it? I know that is personal I will not pry but I wonder do you not take anything from all the wonderful positive posts here already? thank you again
and look after yourself..Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
to Swordlady... Oooh you are SO evasive like the diplomat you are and not answering my question AGAIN my friend I think ifyou are THIS evasive when you fight you must surely present nothing but empty space to your opponents strikes!!
but see now you have me like that little terrier I mentioned somewhere else but i promise will not go chasing you for anymore answers but I am curious why no perfect match exists for you? And you are not paying attention to your signature quote and I worry it is only there as a token... but I will say instead I am only delving because I feel the same as you as if no perfect match exists for me because I am too hard to please.. I like doing what I want and disappearing away where nobody knows and do not like dependence (or dependents).. And it strikes me as funny that we expect to find the perfect match working in our workplace or training in our dojo or living in our town or our county or even our country.. out of 6bn folk what makes us assume the best match is right under our noses anyway? and what makes us think that when we find the perfect match.. there aint an even better match? out of 6bn it seems statistically improbable that we hit the target straightaway and yet many folk get married on exactly this basis.. some last forever and that of course disproves the point but some are like Britney just for the weekend and others marriages are like a big scientific trial and error experiment like Liz Taylor..
Ahh but see I say all these things but I am STILL happy to think of being married some day and enjoy reading bout how amazing a thing a marriage can be from all the folk who took time to post.. Oh well maybe i am just naive.. let us hope we find whatever it is we are looking for..
F24 seeks M24+.. Russell Brand ideally (Mmmmm..
) but will compromise for kind heart + GSOH + viable haircutTake care
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Jason thank you for this and I am not certain if your cynicism is from your married experience or from outside observation?? So you are saying marriage = loss of existing freedom and money too? wow that is a really constrained marriage where both partners are a drain on each other and there is no sense of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts (combined monies) or enjoying each others company such that freedom isn't desired so much.. oh well.. bang goes that idea, ha!
Be good..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Crushing
hey thanks for this and tell me please.. does your ID imply that you actively crush things? apologies if I misinterpret.. anyway yes you are a good researcher and found the name of that film which I did not even see the beginning of and would not have made a point of watching but was really rather nice in a girly way.. but the term witness I am not certain you are picking the meaning and I understand the interpretation you choose but for me anyway the witness is not some distant objective outside observer but rather someone to share intimately even the smallest of issues and episodes which to anyone else outside the marriage would seem trivial and unimportant.. and no matter what in a working marriage there is always someone to share.. well.. it makes sense to me anyway whether it is theoretical or actual I cannot know for myself and which is why I asked for opinion Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To John
that is a very confident assertion my friend and I would share your view I think but let me ask you to step aside from that if possible .. I would wonder is it easy to say something is divinely inspired when it is good .. but what does that mean for those who find themselves in marriages that are no good.. or worse.. abusive?? what I wonder did THEY do wrong? Are all marriages not divinely blessed? Or just the those with ceremonies performed in places of worship? Or just those between the religiously faithful? I am interested in your view my friend Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
to Tradrockrat
hey this is a really special thing and you put this so well.. see I think I might be a "never in a million years" person but it is good to hear you recount this as "never say never".. and well done and congratulations on your anniversary.. hope you had a great celebration!! and I hope your verve never dwindles.. good luck Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Hello all,
I think one key to making it all work is going into the committment focusing on what you can give, and how you can improve your partners life. I think one common problem is that the focus is often on what one wants to always GET from the relationship.
Making the committment with the right person forms a base on which you can build your life. Every day when I see my family I feel very lucky.
Marriage is definately not for everyone and I do think the trend is moving away from marriage, however, marriage can be great when you find the right person and approach it with the right attitude.
People do change and grow apart sometimes and thats where challenges can also develop.
It sure isn't always easy! But for me my life has been far better with my family than when I was single.
I think one key to making it all work is going into the committment focusing on what you can give, and how you can improve your partners life. I think one common problem is that the focus is often on what one wants to always GET from the relationship.
Making the committment with the right person forms a base on which you can build your life. Every day when I see my family I feel very lucky.
Marriage is definately not for everyone and I do think the trend is moving away from marriage, however, marriage can be great when you find the right person and approach it with the right attitude.
People do change and grow apart sometimes and thats where challenges can also develop.
It sure isn't always easy!
But for me my life has been far better with my family than when I was single.
Jenna said:To Rich.. hey big guy.. you said this here..Marriage as a partnership of equals is a merger. If done as a business arrangement it seems so un-emotional and lacking in love. If done out of "Love" only, with the expectation that love will carry them through then the hard parts, this is bad as well, for it takes work by both to make it work.if love exists and is present then everything else will feed off that, right? meaning the good stuff gets better and the bad stuff is more manageable being shared by two equal and interested partners. Is this not right? Obviously lose the love and the marriage engine loses most of its cylinders.. I dunno am I just showing myself up in my ignorance? Probably.. but anyway that is why I am asking...
Take it easy..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Jenna,
The initial "Love" that so many people want to get married on, is not the "Love" that will carry them through the hard times. They have expectations of their partners, that may have thought were obvious, but were not communicated. Hence my comments about a merger. Put everything down that you want out of the relationship and marriage and see if your partner is willing to work with you, as are you willing to work with them. Of course there will be times when one will carry the other one, but that is to be expected, but assumptions and expectations that are not communicated are a cause for misunderstandings, and those misunderstanding make it hard to continuously get through the hard spots, as they grow and grow.
But then again, my experiences are limited, and those I have observed that seem to have worked were either lucky and were both on the same page, (* I have seen one change 15 years into a marriage so it went bad, so no 100% chance on anything *), one subjected themselves to the other as was their wish, but some times it turned out not to be what one or both wanted in the end.
I have some adopted nephews and nieces, (* children of those friends who I call brother, and treat like family, and treat their family like family *) and one set had their mother leave the relationship, she tried to blame it on him, and kicked him out for a night while she calmed down. He left, 6 weeks later he left my house to move in with his parents as she was still involved with an internet relationship. Supposedly nothing came of it, and she called me and was crying about wanting him back. I told her I wanted nothing to do with this. but if she wanted him back to go tell him. They got back together and she still made it seem like it was all his fault. Four years later, she left the state, and is now is living with antoher guy, and he has custody of his children.
I have had to try to explain to them that they may not like what their mom has done, but that she is still their mom, and she should still be respected and even loved as a mother. So it is hard to not like someone you love, and this can be done when they do not live with you, but if it is your spouse, then in that case I find it impossible to continue.
So, above "Love" there should also be communications and also friendship. In the end having a friend share your life would be better than having a spouse you cannot stand be a witness to your life.
:asian:
Love drives people to commitment. It boils down to sharing (commitment creates a vested interest in each other). Instead of two people being the centers of their own universe that happen to live in close proximity to each other, it is two people who are the center of their own singular universe, they are "sharing" the same universe. This is supported a great deal by commitment and a lot of selflessness. This is what keeps both people in there when times get rough (and it will from time to time). Children are another aspect, they are also part of that same center of the universe. This will require a much deeper commitment and selflessness. However, the center of that universe is enriched beyond imagination because of this. This doesn't mean one has to lose their true identity, each has to have a small part of the center of that universe that is theirs and maintained by them.Jenna said:To Rich.. hey big guy.. you said this here..Marriage as a partnership of equals is a merger. If done as a business arrangement it seems so un-emotional and lacking in love. If done out of "Love" only, with the expectation that love will carry them through then the hard parts, this is bad as well, for it takes work by both to make it work.if love exists and is present then everything else will feed off that, right? meaning the good stuff gets better and the bad stuff is more manageable being shared by two equal and interested partners. Is this not right? Obviously lose the love and the marriage engine loses most of its cylinders.. I dunno am I just showing myself up in my ignorance? Probably.. but anyway that is why I am asking...
Take it easy..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
I was speaking from personal experience as well as seeing my good friend have the same situation in a different place. I see this with my co-workers too. Maybe it's just our area here in ohio, maybe not. Like all things you will get good or bad. Kinda like buying a lemon car. What if when looking at the cars did you not pick the same exact one right beside it?Jenna said:To Jason thank you for this and I am not certain if your cynicism is from your married experience or from outside observation?? So you are saying marriage = loss of existing freedom and money too? wow that is a really constrained marriage where both partners are a drain on each other and there is no sense of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts (combined monies) or enjoying each others company such that freedom isn't desired so much.. oh well.. bang goes that idea, ha!
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Hi Jenna,
I was married almost four years ago, at the ripe old age of 31. Seems older than what most people do, but I certainly wasn't ready any time earlier than that.
I met my wife when I was in a different relationship. My girlfriend at the time was a good person, but was chronically depressed. I spent two and a half years trying to fix the world for her, before I gave up and split.
In the meantime, I had this friend, who I met doing martial arts (capoeira). Shared interest, I would see her when I went to class, she was cool and fun to talk to. Suddenly we were dating. I was surprised by it all because after the earlier breakup, I was ready for some solitude for a good long time (read: forever). But she had this way of making me laugh a lot and I realized that it could actually be FUN spending time with someone. I looked forward to it in a way I hadn't before. We got married a couple years later.
Most people annoy me. Even my friends, who I love dearly, but after a while I just need my peace and quiet and need them to go away for a while. That's just me. But my wife doesn't annoy me. I think she is the only one I have met so far who doesn't annoy me like that. I think if I hadn't met her, I would perhaps have never gotten married.
Is being married having a witness? I don't see it that way. It's having someone to share the journey with, and the sharing makes it more fun.
I was married almost four years ago, at the ripe old age of 31. Seems older than what most people do, but I certainly wasn't ready any time earlier than that.
I met my wife when I was in a different relationship. My girlfriend at the time was a good person, but was chronically depressed. I spent two and a half years trying to fix the world for her, before I gave up and split.
In the meantime, I had this friend, who I met doing martial arts (capoeira). Shared interest, I would see her when I went to class, she was cool and fun to talk to. Suddenly we were dating. I was surprised by it all because after the earlier breakup, I was ready for some solitude for a good long time (read: forever). But she had this way of making me laugh a lot and I realized that it could actually be FUN spending time with someone. I looked forward to it in a way I hadn't before. We got married a couple years later.
Most people annoy me. Even my friends, who I love dearly, but after a while I just need my peace and quiet and need them to go away for a while. That's just me. But my wife doesn't annoy me. I think she is the only one I have met so far who doesn't annoy me like that. I think if I hadn't met her, I would perhaps have never gotten married.
Is being married having a witness? I don't see it that way. It's having someone to share the journey with, and the sharing makes it more fun.
John Brewer
Blue Belt
To John that is a very confident assertion my friend and I would share your view I think but let me ask you to step aside from that if possible .. I would wonder is it easy to say something is divinely inspired when it is good .. but what does that mean for those who find themselves in marriages that are no good.. or worse.. abusive?? what I wonder did THEY do wrong? Are all marriages not divinely blessed? Or just the those with ceremonies performed in places of worship? Or just those between the religiously faithful? I am interested in your view my friend
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Jenna,
Hello my friend I do not think all things put in our lives by God have to be what we see as good. Sometimes I know I need to be put back in the right direction, but I believe He means all things for good for those who believe in him. As to no good or even worse abusive relationships I do not believe God would do that. As people we have free choice and there are often consequences to the choices we make. Not that this makes abuse okay, I strongly believe that men that hit women should be given a good dose of their own medicine. I'm sure many marriages performed in the "proper" place and way end in divorce. I don't believe in religion. I believe in a personal relationship with the creator of the universe. When I met my wife I was not living a Christian life. I can't say that I understand God's will in everything. All I know is God is Good!
Thank you,
John
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Jenna,
Hello my friend I do not think all things put in our lives by God have to be what we see as good. Sometimes I know I need to be put back in the right direction, but I believe He means all things for good for those who believe in him. As to no good or even worse abusive relationships I do not believe God would do that. As people we have free choice and there are often consequences to the choices we make. Not that this makes abuse okay, I strongly believe that men that hit women should be given a good dose of their own medicine. I'm sure many marriages performed in the "proper" place and way end in divorce. I don't believe in religion. I believe in a personal relationship with the creator of the universe. When I met my wife I was not living a Christian life. I can't say that I understand God's will in everything. All I know is God is Good!
Thank you,
John
OP
OP
To Frank hey my friend that is a nice way to look at it from the giving point of view and which I would always try myself and if you can keep it going all through the years then that is a perfect way to conduct your marriage I would imagine.. thank you
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Rich Ahh Rich you are wise and always make sense to me and see I am listening to you and taking it in and then thinking ahh but that would not be me and but I am conceited to think if I found someone it would last for always and I know no one goes into marriage NOT believing it will last forever but plainly for many it does not.. but is there any sense in the idea that people are too lazy to work at things? I mean we are used to fast food and disposable possessions and everything is treated like a consumable I think and I wonder do we even treat partners like that also?? I have one of my peepz who got married just last year and yes I was bridesmaid huh! and but they had to live apart because of where his job was and just six months in and he went off looking for other women and I think that was just the worst thing and they have separated altogether which broke my heart I will say and but I wonder what is wrong with people? You get married and maybe it is impossible to turn off the ol urges that help us to get partners in the first place.. is that what it is? I do not now maybe you would have a thought since you always put things well for me..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
TO David hey my friend you have put that succinctly and in a very poetic way thank you and yes I get that idea instead of being two binary suns orbiting.. partners they become a massive singular star that is nice you like my little analogy? ha! but yes selflessness is a great word and I wonder sometimes do people REALLY know how to be selfless.. you just have to look about to see how caught up in themselves we all are at times.. oh well I am glad you have seen beyond that and realised that your identity as that binary star is not lost in the big star.. that is nice thank you and I wish you lots of happy things..
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Jason hey thank you for following up and on your mention of "lemon" cars I am thinking again why we imagine that the car we pick out from the courtyard of the local dealership is the right car for us.. why would we not go to another county or heck another country to find the perfect car for us? I think we are lazy and pick a car from the local traders magazine and compromise on the fact that it aint got climate control or whatever.. but then maybe later we realise we are too hot and uncomfortable in our car without the aircon... hmmmm.. well is that right do you think?
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Michael wow! that is a fantastic story thank you so much for sharing.. I could see the film version of that easily!! I think that is a lovely illustration that fate and coincidence go a long way to replace planning and design! AND I am encouraged also that you got a nice happy ending I am sentimental for that! though I am puzzled by you saying "most people annoy me" but I will not pry into that but I am still interested in why maybe..
And you are both capoeiristas ha! That is SO cool.. I will not even ask bout your hometime roda!! ahh but I have a naughty imagination and will think on it anyways, ha! LOL
Take care of yourself and your little roda partner
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
TO John ahh you have made me nod my head in agreement with you. I am glad you have these things sorted out in your head alas I am not so clear as you but am certainly happy for you (and a little envious of your clearheadedness!) my regards to you!
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
hey my friend that is a nice way to look at it from the giving point of view and which I would always try myself and if you can keep it going all through the years then that is a perfect way to conduct your marriage I would imagine.. thank you Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Rich
Ahh Rich you are wise and always make sense to me and see I am listening to you and taking it in and then thinking ahh but that would not be me and but I am conceited to think if I found someone it would last for always and I know no one goes into marriage NOT believing it will last forever but plainly for many it does not.. but is there any sense in the idea that people are too lazy to work at things? I mean we are used to fast food and disposable possessions and everything is treated like a consumable I think and I wonder do we even treat partners like that also?? I have one of my peepz who got married just last year and yes I was bridesmaid huh! and but they had to live apart because of where his job was and just six months in and he went off looking for other women and I think that was just the worst thing and they have separated altogether which broke my heart I will say and but I wonder what is wrong with people? You get married and maybe it is impossible to turn off the ol urges that help us to get partners in the first place.. is that what it is? I do not now maybe you would have a thought since you always put things well for me..Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
TO David
hey my friend you have put that succinctly and in a very poetic way thank you and yes I get that idea instead of being two binary suns orbiting.. partners they become a massive singular star that is nice you like my little analogy? ha! but yes selflessness is a great word and I wonder sometimes do people REALLY know how to be selfless.. you just have to look about to see how caught up in themselves we all are at times.. oh well I am glad you have seen beyond that and realised that your identity as that binary star is not lost in the big star.. that is nice thank you and I wish you lots of happy things..Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Jason
hey thank you for following up and on your mention of "lemon" cars I am thinking again why we imagine that the car we pick out from the courtyard of the local dealership is the right car for us.. why would we not go to another county or heck another country to find the perfect car for us? I think we are lazy and pick a car from the local traders magazine and compromise on the fact that it aint got climate control or whatever.. but then maybe later we realise we are too hot and uncomfortable in our car without the aircon... hmmmm.. well is that right do you think?Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
To Michael
wow! that is a fantastic story thank you so much for sharing.. I could see the film version of that easily!! I think that is a lovely illustration that fate and coincidence go a long way to replace planning and design! AND I am encouraged also that you got a nice happy ending I am sentimental for that! though I am puzzled by you saying "most people annoy me" but I will not pry into that but I am still interested in why maybe..And you are both capoeiristas ha! That is SO cool.. I will not even ask bout your hometime roda!!
ahh but I have a naughty imagination and will think on it anyways, ha! LOL Take care of yourself and your little roda partner
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
~~~
TO John
ahh you have made me nod my head in agreement with you. I am glad you have these things sorted out in your head alas I am not so clear as you but am certainly happy for you (and a little envious of your clearheadedness!) my regards to you!Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Jenna said:To Michael though I am puzzled by you saying "most people annoy me" but I will not pry into that but I am still interested in why maybe..
And you are both capoeiristas ha! That is SO cool.. I will not even ask bout your hometime roda!!
Take care of yourself and your little roda partner
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
Maybe "annoy" is a bit too strong, at least for my friends. I guess I just find that I like my solitude and privacy. I love to spend time with friends, but at some point I just need to be left alone again. Difficult to explain further than that.
