Man vs. Beast III

[Wing Woo Gar]

I have been at 2 zoos San Diego and Disney and both said the same thing..... they trust Jaguars least of all their cats

This is true. Jaguars are great liars. They also like apples a lot!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The big difference between bears and cats is lean muscle mass. All of these big cats are practically all muscle, hence the strength compared to bears, which are slower and tend to lug around a lot more fat for their weight, up to 30% fat when they go to hibernate. Size also makes a big difference, big cats like Siberian Tigers are known to occasionally eat Polar Bears.

Bear fat is delicious. Never eaten tiger or leopard, just trained the styles.

In Chinese kung fu the leopard style is singled out for building strength (lek) and manpower, where the tiger style is building bone (gum/gwot), or the body's frame. Tigers tend bigger, but pound for pound leopards are stronger.

View attachment 27892

There is a recent researcher in Siberia who tracked a male Amur tiger that seems to prefer eating large brown bears exclusively. There were photos of the kills, which were gruesome to say the least. Many of the bears that were eaten were of larger estimated size than the tiger who ate them. That Tiger was estimated at 600lbs.

 

[Xue Sheng]

There is a recent researcher in Siberia who tracked a male Amur tiger that seems to prefer eating large brown bears exclusively. There were photos of the kills, which were gruesome to say the least. Many of the bears that were eaten were of larger estimated size than the tiger who ate them. That Tiger was estimated at 600lbs.

Siberian brown bears are generally 600 pounds or less. Now let a 600 pound tiger try that with a Kodiak that can get up to 1500 pounds or more

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The big difference between bears and cats is lean muscle mass. All of these big cats are practically all muscle, hence the strength compared to bears, which are slower and tend to lug around a lot more fat for their weight, up to 30% fat when they go to hibernate. Size also makes a big difference, big cats like Siberian Tigers are known to occasionally eat Polar Bears.

Bear fat is delicious. Never eaten tiger or leopard, just trained the styles.

In Chinese kung fu the leopard style is singled out for building strength (lek) and manpower, where the tiger style is building bone (gum/gwot), or the body's frame. Tigers tend bigger, but pound for pound leopards are stronger.

View attachment 27892

Btw factoid. Clouded leopards are not even related to leopards. I wrote the Species survival plan application for the local zoo to acquire them, so they are something of a pet project. More closely related to modern tigers and the sole living relative of the saber tooth, the clouded leopard is capable of amazing feats of agility that most cats are incapable of. Upside down commando crawl on a horizontal vine, and full backflips from that position, as well as rotating and hanging from rear feet. i could go on and on extolling their many virtues.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Siberian brown bears are generally 600 pounds or less. Now let a 600 pound tiger try that with a Kodiak that can get up to 1500 pounds or more

Who knows? Kodiak bears can be quite stealthy despite their size.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Who knows? Kodiak bears can be quite stealthy despite their size.

There is a great video of a very large brown bear absolutely wrecking a crew cab pickup. Tires blew, axle housing collapsed, bed completely crushed to the ground. He also totaled the camp where the truck was and then hung around napping after the tantrum.

 

[Flying Crane]

Siberian brown bears are generally 600 pounds or less. Now let a 600 pound tiger try that with a Kodiak that can get up to 1500 pounds or more

I believe polar bears can hit 2000 pounds, I am having a hard time believing an aimur tiger could take one of those out, at least not without some serious ambush advantage, or a sick or starving bear. Polar bears don’t like to come too far south, they stay close to the sea ice (which is disappearing, of course). So I wonder how often they would encounter a tiger. Not unheard of, there have been recent cross-mating of polar bears and brown bears, which didn’t occur in the past before the sea ice problem. But if an aimur tiger took out a polar bear, I would say the opposite happens at least equally. And like all animals, polar bears range in size quite a bit. A young female is a lot smaller than a mature and experienced male. So there are always details to consider.

Don’t ever make the mistake of thinking a bear of any kind can’t be shockingly quick and fast.

 

[bill miller]

I have been at 2 zoos San Diego and Disney and both said the same thing..... they trust Jaguars least of all their cats

The only Jaguar I was ever around was a 1966 XK-E, with a 12 cylinder engine and three carbs! It was hard to tune, but ran and handled extremely well. But, it could kill you every bit as fast as the furry kind.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The only Jaguar I was ever around was a 1966 XK-E, with a 12 cylinder engine and three carbs! It was hard to tune, but ran and handled extremely well. But, it could kill you every bit as fast as the furry kind.

I wonder who did that? They were only ever made with a 4.7L straight 6. Although they did have 3 carbs. And I don't think I ever knew anybody to describe a Jag product (especially from the 60's) as 'running well'. Gorgeous cars. I think the E-body convertible might well be the best looking car ever. But the best chance you had of being able to drive to work and back was to get another car.

 

[bill miller]

I wonder who did that? They were only ever made with a 4.7L straight 6. Although they did have 3 carbs. And I don't think I ever knew anybody to describe a Jag product (especially from the 60's) as 'running well'. Gorgeous cars. I think the E-body convertible might well be the best looking car ever. But the best chance you had of being able to drive to work and back was to get another car.

It actually did handle very well, the owner did some SCCA autocross events in it and won his class more than once. I might be wrong about the cylinder configuration, as I helped him tune it a few times, and drove it sporadically. The carbs would dtay tuned for more than two rounds, and it took two sets of hands with the few tools we had. Anyway, it was a quick fun car!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Jaguar v12 came out in 1970 I believe

 

[Dirty Dog]

Jaguar v12 came out in 1970 I believe

'71.

 

[bill miller]

'71.

This was before that, I think. I may have gotten confused, which I do from time to time. My ride was much slower and cheaper. A 63 Austin Healey Sprite! I loved that car and it did well in my class.

 

[Xue Sheng]

'71.

wasn't their 6 cylinder a dual over head cam before that?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I believe polar bears can hit 2000 pounds, I am having a hard time believing an aimur tiger could take one of those out, at least not without some serious ambush advantage, or a sick or starving bear. Polar bears don’t like to come too far south, they stay close to the sea ice (which is disappearing, of course). So I wonder how often they would encounter a tiger. Not unheard of, there have been recent cross-mating of polar bears and brown bears, which didn’t occur in the past before the sea ice problem. But if an aimur tiger took out a polar bear, I would say the opposite happens at least equally. And like all animals, polar bears range in size quite a bit. A young female is a lot smaller than a mature and experienced male. So there are always details to consider.

Don’t ever make the mistake of thinking a bear of any kind can’t be shockingly quick and fast.

I have no polar bear experience. I am not sure about their current range either. I had never heard of them encountering tigers before the previous post. I honestly can’t imagine what tiger vs bear looks like. I have seen 3 adult male lions fighting in a ball like you see housecats do. It’s impressive and very loud, but they barely get scratched. I would have to assume that the tiger that eats bears has some exceptional hunting strategy because a brown bear has a very thick hide and neck.

 

[dvcochran]

I believe polar bears can hit 2000 pounds, I am having a hard time believing an aimur tiger could take one of those out, at least not without some serious ambush advantage, or a sick or starving bear. Polar bears don’t like to come too far south, they stay close to the sea ice (which is disappearing, of course). So I wonder how often they would encounter a tiger. Not unheard of, there have been recent cross-mating of polar bears and brown bears, which didn’t occur in the past before the sea ice problem. But if an aimur tiger took out a polar bear, I would say the opposite happens at least equally. And like all animals, polar bears range in size quite a bit. A young female is a lot smaller than a mature and experienced male. So there are always details to consider.

Don’t ever make the mistake of thinking a bear of any kind can’t be shockingly quick and fast.

The closest thing to animals that size I have experience with are cattle. By sheer weight alone they can and have been deadly. They have been clocked at over 30mph. Get one pissed off or stressed in confined quarters and 30mph seems like 100mph real, real fast.
I got tossed once when I was young and 'fast'. I was lucky that the cow just wanted me out of her way and was not intent on doing damage. I had a BIL that was killed by a bull that tossed him and then used him for a play toy. It was not pretty. Literally crushed all the ribs in his ribcage.
The raw strength of large frame animals is amazing and usually underestimated or taken for granted. I cannot imagine that kind of strength being able to stand up and take a swipe at me.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have no polar bear experience. I am not sure about their current range either. I had never heard of them encountering tigers before the previous post. I honestly can’t imagine what tiger vs bear looks like. I have seen 3 adult male lions fighting in a ball like you see housecats do. It’s impressive and very loud, but they barely get scratched. I would have to assume that the tiger that eats bears has some exceptional hunting strategy because a brown bear has a very thick hide and neck.

From what I’ve read, as the sea ice in the north is melting, the bears are sometimes not able to get onto it and get good hunting. So some are roaming farther south than they did historically. This of course is not optimal, because their main prey is seals, for the meat and blubber which is important in the diet for surviving the frozen north. As they go south, away from the North Sea, less likely to encounter seals. But on occasion they are encountering brown bears and there are documented cases of hybrid offspring from these meetings. Unfortunately, the offspring are sterile and so do nothing to ensure the survival of either species. They are basically wasted genetics and a wasted mating and reproductive cycle.

Like you, I have not heard of tigers and polar bears meeting, before this thread. I think a citation would be appropriate. I suppose it is possible that an aimur tiger might travel far enough north to encounter a polar bear that is wandering south. I suspect the advantage in a fight could go either way, depending on various details, like size of the individuals, which can vary quite a bit. I was told by a docent at the San Francisco zoo that it is believed that all the largest aimur tigers have been hunted out, and the genetic lineages for those very largest animals no longer exists. The upper limit nowadays is somewhere around 500-700 pounds, which is astonishingly big, but just a few generations ago they could reach over 1000 pounds, which is pants-pissingly enormous. The individual at the SF zoo I think is around 500-600 pounds, a very big cat.

My understanding of diet is that the tigers are eating leaner animals for the meat and marrow and such, so things like deer and pigs. The polar bears, as I mentioned, are interested in blubber-rich animals like seals. So if they crossed paths, perhaps a hungry tiger might see a small polar bear as potential food, but a hungry polar bear might be less inclined to see the tiger as food. Maybe a tiger would be more aggressive because of this. This is pure speculation on my part.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

From what I’ve read, as the sea ice in the north is melting, the bears are sometimes not able to get onto it and get good hunting. So some are roaming farther south than they did historically. This of course is not optimal, because their main prey is seals, for the meat and blubber which is important in the diet for surviving the frozen north. As they go south, away from the North Sea, less likely to encounter seals. But on occasion they are encountering brown bears and there are documented cases of hybrid offspring from these meetings. Unfortunately, the offspring are sterile and so do nothing to ensure the survival of either species. They are basically wasted genetics and a wasted mating and reproductive cycle.

Like you, I have not heard of tigers and polar bears meeting, before this thread. I think a citation would be appropriate. I suppose it is possible that an aimur tiger might travel far enough north to encounter a polar bear that is wandering south. I suspect the advantage in a fight could go either way, depending on various details, like size of the individuals, which can vary quite a bit. I was told by a docent at the San Francisco zoo that it is believed that all the largest aimur tigers have been hunted out, and the genetic lineages for those very largest animals no longer exists. The upper limit nowadays is somewhere around 500-700 pounds, which is astonishingly big, but just a few generations ago they could reach over 1000 pounds, which is pants-pissingly enormous. The individual at the SF zoo I think is around 500-600 pounds, a very big cat.

My understanding of diet is that the tigers are eating leaner animals for the meat and marrow and such, so things like deer and pigs. The polar bears, as I mentioned, are interested in blubber-rich animals like seals. So if they crossed paths, perhaps a hungry tiger might see a small polar bear as potential food, but a hungry polar bear might be less inclined to see the tiger as food. Maybe a tiger would be more aggressive because of this. This is pure speculation on my part.

I can tell you that reesha was right at 700 and at over 10 ft long he made bengal tigers look small. There was a female bengal named Jamara next to him that was around 250-275. Reesha foot was 13 inches across when standing on it relaxed. His head (with the ruff) ear to ear was wider than my shoulders( I’m 6’2”).

 

[Flying Crane]

I can tell you that reesha was right at 700 and at over 10 ft long he made bengal tigers look small. There was a female bengal named Jamara next to him that was around 250-275. Reesha foot was 13 inches across when standing on it relaxed. His head (with the ruff) ear to ear was wider than my shoulders( I’m 6’2”).

Oh yeah, that is a big animal, no doubt. The SF zoo also has bengals, and they look like house cats in comparison to the aimur. They also have a lion that weighs in around 550, which I believe is about 50-100 more than is typical. Big Kitty, those fellows!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The closest thing to animals that size I have experience with are cattle. By sheer weight alone they can and have been deadly. They have been clocked at over 30mph. Get one pissed off or stressed in confined quarters and 30mph seems like 100mph real, real fast.
I got tossed once when I was young and 'fast'. I was lucky that the cow just wanted me out of her way and was not intent on doing damage. I had a BIL that was killed by a bull that tossed him and then used him for a play toy. It was not pretty. Literally crushed all the ribs in his ribcage.
The raw strength of large frame animals is amazing and usually underestimated or taken for granted. I cannot imagine that kind of strength being able to stand up and take a swipe at me.

What is a BIL?