MA in today society

[terryl965]

I was hoping to get some good imput on what MA means in today society, whether good or bad.... I strongly believe it has lost it's roots in the western countries, to many people just trying to cash in on today sport aspect of MA..... God Bless America

 

[Flatlander]

This may potentially turn out to be a huge and diverse topic, so I'll offer how it affects me in today's society.

Personally, I'm not terribly concerned with whether or not the arts are being kept close to their roots everywhere. I have faith that there will be a few who will endeavor to preserve the essence of the original ways, and that's enough for me. I'm not descended from the same place as the arts that I study, and so do not feel a close connection to those cultures.

Having said that, I feel that there are so many benefits to training that are very personal to me. I have aquired a much greater degree of self confidence, which is being reflected in my professional life, as well as my personal life, all in very positive ways. Training has also brought me me closer to my internal self, and has been a catalyst in my spiritual cultivation. This also has reflected very positively in my personal relationships, as well as helped me to make better decisions.

So, to sum up, regardless of whether the original cultural essenses of the arts has been preserved, I think that contemporary society can only benefit from the propagation of the arts, provided that those who choose to teach maintain a high level of honesty and integrity to their art(s), and promote positivity to their students and contemporaries.

 

[Brother John]

I was hoping to get some good imput on what MA means in today society, whether good or bad.... I strongly believe it has lost it's roots in the western countries, to many people just trying to cash in on today sport aspect of MA..... God Bless America

OK. Why do you 'strongly' believe that? And: what are those 'roots' that you believe have been lost?
Seems like you have an agenda you are wanting to elicit here. I don't have a problem witht that, but I think you'd get better responses if you were a bit more specific.
I'd love to reply, later.
Your Brother
John

 

[Touch Of Death]

I was hoping to get some good imput on what MA means in today society, whether good or bad.... I strongly believe it has lost it's roots in the western countries, to many people just trying to cash in on today sport aspect of MA..... God Bless America

Why do you think the roots are important to preserve? People adapt to present reality, and for self defense purposes discard what is not usefull to them. :asian:
Sean

 

[terryl965]

The roots of a particular art is like your heritage, (say your family tree).. it's ok to change with society but not to forget where and why you trained in the first place, everybody on this forum pick a MA for the techniques you can achieve, but then you also start to get into the history of your said Art, and through that you should try to preserve that along with your training... Just my humble opion....God Bless America

 

[Brother John]

Why do you think the roots are important to preserve? People adapt to present reality, and for self defense purposes discard what is not usefull to them. :asian:
Sean

Hey Sean-
I'm thinking that he's not talking just about the self defense purposes of the arts but of the culture that they originated in. (Thus the juxtapositioning of the Eastern vs. Western cultures that she brought up)

My thoughts. (I'll go ahead before he goes on to clarify)
There are many schools that have 'lost' nothing of their original culture/mystique or moral. They have maintained their culture just fine. They are a little few and far between, but they ALWAYS have been... even in their culture of origin.
Simple human principle here: when things proliferate, their ideology deviates.
This isn't a bad thing, on the contrary I think it's one of the strengths of the martial arts.
If you want to do a martial art as a cultural way of life, I could get you to a Dojo/Kwoon...etc. that would get you there.
If you want to do a martial art as a very competitive sport, with great athleticism and comradrie...I could drive you to several who would fit the bill just fine.
If you want to go to a school that teaches so-called "Street-realism" and practical human combat techniques/strategies for life and death conflict...
I could take you to those as well. (Including one 6 feet from where I sit :asian: )
Fact is the Western Culture has saved the martial arts culture and even given it a greater diversity of purpose than it ever had before.
Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

The roots of a particular art is like your heritage, (say your family tree).. it's ok to change with society but not to forget where and why you trained in the first place, everybody on this forum pick a MA for the techniques you can achieve, but then you also start to get into the history of your said Art, and through that you should try to preserve that along with your training... Just my humble opion....God Bless America

I think I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that you can make a blanket statement and say that all or even most schools don't preserve their arts heritage/history. It's sort of like our own families (to use your analogy). There are traditions that my grandparents had that my parents carried on with us, their children and I'm now passing these along to my son and daughter. It enriches our lives and gives a sense of belonging and continuity. However there are also other traditions that my parents stopped, and some that I stopped observing. Doesn't mean our family has lost it's roots or forgotten where we are from or lost that continuity. Some families dump almost all of their traditions. Bad? I don't know, but they didn't just leave a void. That's one of the things thats best about our culture, we don't leave voids, we recreate and revamp to suit a new need. Hopefully the change is an improvement...not always, but hopefully more often than not.

You've given us something to think about. But I don't think you need to lament a loss across the board. The very fact that there are those who know the difference shows that the values have carried over, if not... you wouldn't care.

Your Brother
John

 

[Flatlander]

Fact is the Western Culture has saved the martial arts culture and even given it a greater diversity of purpose than it ever had before.
Your Brother
John

I totally agree with this statement. The only thing that I would like to add is that there are dojos and instructors who would endeavor to swindle unsuspecting people with false promises, or illegitimate qualifications. This is the nasty side effect of the capitalist influence. Hopefully, over time, these false prophets will be discovered, and uprooted, which in the future can allow for further growth,diversity and propagation of the various arts in a positive evolutionary way.

I believe that these forums, and the many respectable people who post here are assisting to uncover these potential potholes for those of us who haven't the knowledge or skill to determine the difference between quality and illegitimacy.

 

[terryl965]

I think I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that you can make a blanket statement and say that all or even most schools don't preserve their arts heritage/history. It's sort of like our own families (to use your analogy). There are traditions that my grandparents had that my parents carried on with us, their children and I'm now passing these along to my son and daughter. It enriches our lives and gives a sense of belonging and continuity. However there are also other traditions that my parents stopped, and some that I stopped observing. Doesn't mean our family has lost it's roots or forgotten where we are from or lost that continuity. Some families dump almost all of their traditions. Bad? I don't know, but they didn't just leave a void. That's one of the things thats best about our culture, we don't leave voids, we recreate and revamp to suit a new need. Hopefully the change is an improvement...not always, but hopefully more often than not.

You've given us something to think about. But I don't think you need to lament a loss across the board. The very fact that there are those who know the difference shows that the values have carried over, if not... you wouldn't care.

Your Brother
John

Brother John you are exactly right should not blanket the statement.. I do agree with what you are saying... I started this thread just to see people response in by yours and Flatliner I feel you are the type to look deep into a subject and bring out the best and worst of that converstation... Appreciate all the imput... God Bless You and yours

 

[Flatlander]

Flatliner

Flatlander dude, Flatlander.

 

[PizDoff]

I was hoping to get some good imput on what MA means in today society, whether good or bad.... I strongly believe it has lost it's roots in the western countries, to many people just trying to cash in on today sport aspect of MA..... God Bless America

What does MA mean in today's society?
To some it is a hobby, to some it is an obsession, to some they see it as possble self-defense training.

To some, they see it as something they can cash in on. Obviously the instructor should be paid for his time but there are dojos that overcharge and scam the students with false claims and high prices.

The sport aspect of marital arts today, I'm thinking full contact venues like PrideFC or UFC for example, has shown what techniques work and highlighted the necessity of complete training in standing ranges as well as ground ranges.

The roots and history of an art are definately something to reflect upon, to understand the progression and growth of the art, but is it possible that today's society may spend too much time dwelling on the past and not looking towards the future?

 

[Brother John]

there are dojos and instructors who would endeavor to swindle unsuspecting people with false promises, or illegitimate qualifications. This is the nasty side effect of the capitalist influence. QUOTE]

SO true. BUT: that's not new, it was almost perfected in the Orient. Capitolism accelerated it no doubt. A quick perusal of the adds in Black Belt magazine (still my favorite mag though) will shout this fact in our faces! But there were Chinese/Japanese/Korean hucksters LONG before westerners began studying.
Speaks more to fallen human nature than to any one particular culture or economic system.
Humans have a tendency toward oportunism.

Your Brother (also from the prairie...where you from???)
John

 

[Flatlander]

Brother John, north of the 49th, in the armpit of Canada, where we have June, July, August, and winter.

 

[terryl965]

Flatlander dude, Flatlander.

Sorry Flatlander SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless America

 

[Flatlander]

Terry, no worries, my friend. Flatliner makes me sound like a killer, or a dead man.....