Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Actually it is Xuefu, which I am the grand high exalted evil wizard ruler of all I survey, but I do on ocassions field questions for others just to help out :EG: :ninja:
Martial Art good or Bad
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
Actually it is Xuefu, which I am the grand high exalted evil wizard ruler of all I survey, but I do on ocassions field questions for others just to help out :EG: :ninja:
OP
OP
Yes, please henceforth address me as Herr Doctor, Grandmaster, and Founder of kickmobuttgunfu. :lool:
Those interested may earn a BB with me in 2 1/2 years, guaranteed, please pay my business partner, tshadowchaser, on your way out. :lol:
Oh, and I'm also a member of the same sokeship council as Xue Sheng, who will gladly take any of your questions. :boing2:
Just kidding. It really takes 2 3/4 years.
And how much would this fine dic\scipline cost me to learn?
Thou art truly a saint..
Brother John
Senior Master
Here's my take on this...
#1:
THAT totally depends on what You thought the original 'concept' in martial arts WAS. ...and THAT depends on how far back you want to go.
the Original Concept? Killing the enemy on the battlefield. Not gonna get very far in a commercial martial arts school with the Original concept.
Later, other concepts entered in during times of relative peace, but they are totally secondary.......and a focus on "Competition" didn't even exist until the very end of the 19th Century...and even then......on a totally limited basis. The HEAVY shift in the 20th Century toward competition and the more 'romanticized' aspects (additions) to the martial ways draws in a direct line away from it's Origins.
#2:
In all honesty, I don't find their presumption odd or funny at all. There's a huge difference between martial arts and martial sports. from the early 60's through today there's been an ever widening gap between the two. A martial art cannot be "All things to all people...", so their presumption that a school that has any kind of a focus on 'tournaments" would have much to do with real self defense (fighting) skills is very reasonable. Now I'm not saying that a school that spars and attends tournaments cannot ALSO do adequate "Self-Defense" work; but I'm in like manner I'm not saying that a they can't also do flower arranging as well. In other words, they have nothing to do with one another! So...any time that a school spends working toward tournaments is time that they're NOT working toward self defense skills/ability, and vice versa! That's why so many schools that make a killing at tournaments don't 'waste' their time working with real fighting skills....when they could be improving their game. It's also why SO many "Black Belts" who's schools focus on tournaments get their clocks Cleaned on the streets if they're ever forced to try to FIGHT. It's not the same game.
...heck....
it's NOT a game.
#3:
Those things are TRUE as well as praise-worthy! But they can also be said of little league baseball. Those elements don't require anything beyond sport or athletic achievement, which is what tournament endeavors are. Why would someone need to work on actual self-defense skills to achieve those things??
...I think that their responses to your questions are pretty predictable honestly. You were speaking to instructors at a 'tournament' and they had a 'tournament school mindset'.
Your Brother
John
bowser666
2nd Black Belt
Well if things keep going the way they are with Gun Control, I personally will want to defend myself and my family and friends with other available means. Martial Arts of course. If those bleedign hearts in Capitol have their way and strip those rights from us. What will you use when that is gone ? YAY for Martial Arts!
One of the problems you run into is people that feel that their approach to martial arts is the best or only way.
Chances are, SD-oriented people feel tournaments are a waste of time and not street realistic. Tournament-oriented people don't seem to understand that what they do is sport for points. Traditional people think that tournament people are superficial who only want fame and glory. Others think that unless it works in a cage it means nothing.
Every art can be compartmentalized, meaning people will take out of it what they want. But realize, whatever you focus on will inevitably mean limitations. Self defense does not carry over to a ring; tournament style does not mean you can defend yourself; and traditional arts often live in their own world.
It doesn't mean there isn't a place for all of them, it just means realize what you're doing it what that entails.
Chances are, SD-oriented people feel tournaments are a waste of time and not street realistic. Tournament-oriented people don't seem to understand that what they do is sport for points. Traditional people think that tournament people are superficial who only want fame and glory. Others think that unless it works in a cage it means nothing.
Every art can be compartmentalized, meaning people will take out of it what they want. But realize, whatever you focus on will inevitably mean limitations. Self defense does not carry over to a ring; tournament style does not mean you can defend yourself; and traditional arts often live in their own world.
It doesn't mean there isn't a place for all of them, it just means realize what you're doing it what that entails.
JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
I don't think Martial arts are good or bad.
I think peoples intent and use that can coin it good or bad.
Martial arts can be a tool to achieve what ever goal you have.
From the money hungry Soke Mcdojo to the person who wants to protect his or her family all the tools are there.
As Martial art consumers it is up to us to be wise about the choices we make in regards to our training which is why Martialtalk.com and other sites are so valuable to educate the less educated Martial art consumer.
I think peoples intent and use that can coin it good or bad.
Martial arts can be a tool to achieve what ever goal you have.
From the money hungry Soke Mcdojo to the person who wants to protect his or her family all the tools are there.
As Martial art consumers it is up to us to be wise about the choices we make in regards to our training which is why Martialtalk.com and other sites are so valuable to educate the less educated Martial art consumer.
allenjp
Brown Belt
Personally I don't understand why someone cannot have both sport and SD training at the same time. As long as they keep the right mindset about it. In my BJJ class, we constantly talk (I always make sure we do) about whether the technique we are learning is viable in a SD situation, or how it might be modified to be so. We do learn valid SD techniques, that are based on realistic, high percentage attacks (unarmed attacks of course). But my instructor will also mention how many points a certain move would be worth in a tourney. We have both Gi, and no Gi classes, which I find great because while I realize most people won't be wearing a Gi in a SD situation, I also know that they most likely won't be almost naked like in MMA, or wearing just a rash guard like in no Gi grappling, so I realize that a lot of Gi techniques will work in certain SD situations. We also spend a considerable amount of time on Judo throws and clinch work, which I think are vital in unarmed SD encounters. I think that sport BJJ has a good method of scoring in their tournaments, because the points are awarded for acheiving a superior position, and superior position is the same whether you're in a tourney or a SD situation. The only thing of course, is that you can do things in a tourney that you wouldn't do in SD because you don't have to worry about getting punched or kicked or stomped, or friends jumping in. But as long as you always stay aware in your training of just what you're getting, you can train for both. And of course the phsyical fitness side of it comes with that automatically.
Brother John
Senior Master
EXACTLY!!!
It is, or is not, "Good" only according to how close or far it gets you toward YOUR objective!!
if You think that something is lacking, you can ONLY affect that change in your self!
Like Ghandi said "We must BE the change we wish to see in the world"
Your Brother
John
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Don't forget the West Coast Director and All Around Henchman...
In Xuefu, I am Number Two!
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Yes, yes you are and anyone on the West Coast who need questions answered :samurai::boxing: about kickmobuttgunfu feel free to ask Flying Crane as well :EG:
kidswarrior
Senior Master
We have a sliding scale, to help out all comers. :angel: How much ya got? :mst:
kidswarrior
Senior Master
Yes, congratulations, etc., etc., but please refrain from honing in on my celestial territory (West Coast). I am, after all, also the 19th disciple of the 36th Generation Son of the Heavenly Gate Dragon Master Founder of kickmobuttgunfu (trademark pending). And I really don't want to use my long distance chi on anyone--but bad things have been known to happen to those who stand in the Way of the Heavenly Gate. :mst:
OP
OP
Probaly not enough
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
And I think this is the essence of what one should be in the world.
If each of us want's the martial arts to be really worth while, then each of us just do our own part to make it so. Do our own part and do it well.
Deaf
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I agree
But in some cases it is like standing in front of the Tidal wave holding a mop.
