Look for a clean sweep.

[heretic888]

:whip:
So mature there...
Nice.


Nothin like sore losers.

Well.... to be fair, John, its no secret that the neo-con group that Cheney and Wolfowitz are members of have full intentions to "rebuild" other countries in their crusade to "physically reform Islam".

Iran is a pretty safe bet for the next target on the list.

 

[heretic888]

Right, you said that Lieberman lost because he was too conservative. Well, to clarify, he was too conservative for the Democrats, so I guess we're agreed there. Same with McCain. He was too moderate or liberal for the majority of the Republicans.

Actually, McCain was (and is) quite popular among both Republicans and Democrats --- and for good reason, too. He only lost to Bush by a very narrow margin.

As for Lieberman, I'd suspect anti-semitism had as much a hand in his popularity as anything else.

The idea that "it takes a village to raise a child" is socialist. Haven't some Democrats suggested a socialist health care system?

Your definition of "socialism" is, to be blunt, completely inaccurate.

By your definition, then Social Security, Welfare, Public Education, the Postal Service, and even the National Guard are all "socialist" programs/institutions.

"Socialist" and "communist" are common labels that the Republican propaganda machine likes to toss around --- but, for most of them, they're really just synonymns for what they call "big government".

You're a little bit right; I have no problem calling a socialist a socialist or a communists a communist, but they are not all in their respective parties; some are Democrats.

I challenge you to name one Democrat 'socialist'.

Laterz.

 

[Brother John]

Well.... to be fair, John, its no secret that the neo-con group that Cheney and Wolfowitz are members of have full intentions to "rebuild" other countries in their crusade to "physically reform Islam".

Iran is a pretty safe bet for the next target on the list.

where do you get this info from??
Not meaning to sound rude, but can you back this up?

Conspiracy theory abounds.



Your Brother
John

 

[MisterMike]

I don't think you're going to find too many 'socialists' per se, but you will find MANY Democrats who believe in their ideals. You'll also find some Republicans too.

Healthcare for example is one topic both parties have members who would like it 'universal' - read socialized.

 

[pete]

Guliani Vs Hillary in '08!!

or better, on the same ticket. remember, rudy became mayor on the liberal ticket. nyc became a better place to live, work, and play with rudy in gracie mansion and bill and hillary in the white house. seems to have backtracked a little during the bloomberg/bush years.

who knows, maybe bill can have same type of the influence over a vp hil as bush sr. has over jr. anybody else thinking that bush sr. has actually been running the country since 1980 (except for the clinton yrs)...

funny how bush supporters cow-towed to the fears of americans by portraying w as someone who can keep you safer from terrorist... but, the voters in the areas that suffered the most loss from terrorist attacks backed kerry. i guess iowa is now sleeping better.

sorry, but mc cain lost ground by not doin' the right thing and backing kerry. it actually looked painful for him to stand in support of bush. lieberman is dangerous, cheney is just dislikable, edwards is a neophyte, and arnold hasn't been born on us soil, yet...

guilani/clinton in '08... woo hoo.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

:whip:
So mature there...
Nice.


Nothin like sore losers.

Yes, when over 50% of American voters (or I guess I should say those who voted) decide that a religious zealot who lies to the public and abuses his power to further his daddy's friends' jingoistic crusade, it does kinda sting. I mean, c'mon, aren't those the type of guys our election system was supposed to prevent from attaining power?

 

[PeachMonkey]

where do you get this info from??
Not meaning to sound rude, but can you back this up?

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Lists current members, policy ideas, etc.

You'll note that in their past "letters" that Wolfowitz and Cheney have been listed several times as signatories and founders.

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Has a list of Bush Administration officials who have served as founders or members of PNAC.

 

[Brother John]

Yes, when over 50% of American voters (or I guess I should say those who voted) decide that a religious zealot who lies to the public and abuses his power to further his daddy's friends' jingoistic crusade, it does kinda sting. I mean, c'mon, aren't those the type of guys our election system was supposed to prevent from attaining power?

You'll swallow any line won't you?
That's too bad. You have to make crap up when your side doesn't win.
Sorry you're having such a rotten week.


Your Brother
John

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Please refer to the links that PeachMonkey so kindly provided. I'd also seen reference to the New American Century group in a documentary (I believe by history channel) during my Foreign Policy course, so I hardly think it's just swallowing a line.

 

[loki09789]

Yes, when over 50% of American voters (or I guess I should say those who voted) decide that a religious zealot who lies to the public and abuses his power to further his daddy's friends' jingoistic crusade, it does kinda sting. I mean, c'mon, aren't those the type of guys our election system was supposed to prevent from attaining power?

Actually, no. Consider who the founding fathers were and who they envisioned as 'fit to lead' given the context of the day. Rich, land owning, white males with proven 'old money lineage success' (only because it was the 'new' definition of 'nobility'), with education and connections.

"Life isn't fair, anyone who tells you different is selling something."

As far as I remember, G.Washington (the original) even proposed the title of 'your highness' for the president.

Come ON! Idealizing/romaticizing this stuff and then acting angry at the reality when it doesn't match is not productive. That is like saying that Samurai/Knights/Tribal cultures were/are more 'noble' than 'we' are....please.

 

[PeachMonkey]

That's too bad. You have to make crap up when your side doesn't win.

To be fair, Brother John, we've discussed for months varying positions on whether the administration was right or wrong on various topics, and evidence also exists showing that President Bush feels that he speaks (again, right or wrong) directly to the Christian God.

We can certainly agree to disagree about the evidence, but that doesn't mean we make stuff up, either.

 

[Flatlander]

Enough barbs, gentlefolk. Let's return to the discussion of issues, please.

-Dan Bowman-
-MT Moderator-

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Flatlander:

My apologies. :asian:

 

[heretic888]

I don't think you're going to find too many 'socialists' per se, but you will find MANY Democrats who believe in their ideals. You'll also find some Republicans too.

Healthcare for example is one topic both parties have members who would like it 'universal' - read socialized.

Once again, if that is your criteria for "socialist", then institutions like the military, postal office, national guard, public libraries, public education, social security, and welfare are all "socialist", too.

 

[heretic888]

where do you get this info from??
Not meaning to sound rude, but can you back this up?

Conspiracy theory abounds.

I think PeachMonkey already covered this. Just be aware that the administration our country has elected (for the first time, I might add) has plans well beyond Iraq and Afghanistan. This "World War 4", as they put it, is far from over.

Makes yah feel proud, don't it??

anybody else thinking that bush sr. has actually been running the country since 1980 (except for the clinton yrs)...

No. To be blunt, much of what the current administration has done stood in stark contrast to the policies of his father's (Bush Sr., for example, actually liked international diplomacy).

My guess is that Cheney is bitter that the father wouldn't do the things he wanted done (Dick was the Secretary of Defense for Bush Sr.), so he's getting the gullible son to do them now.

sorry, but mc cain lost ground by not doin' the right thing and backing kerry. it actually looked painful for him to stand in support of bush.

The "right thing"?? Well, its debatable supporting Kerry would have been the "right thing", either.

Take a look at Howard Dean. He opposed Kerry on quite a few issues, but ended up supporting him in the end. Why?? Because even party wildcards like Dean and McCain have a measure of party loyalty (this rule tends to only be excluded in crazies like Zell Miller).

guilani/clinton in '08... woo hoo.

No offense, but ain't gonna happen.

Consider who the founding fathers were and who they envisioned as 'fit to lead' given the context of the day. Rich, land owning, white males with proven 'old money lineage success' (only because it was the 'new' definition of 'nobility'), with education and connections.

And you would know who the founding fathers envisioned as 'fit to lead'.... how??

As far as I remember, G.Washington (the original) even proposed the title of 'your highness' for the president.

According to the history books I've read, George Washington was actually offered the position of "King of America" after the war was won. He turned it down.

He was also offered successive terms in office after his first two. He turned them down, as well.

I would seriously question the source of the "your highness" reference.

Come ON! Idealizing/romaticizing this stuff and then acting angry at the reality when it doesn't match is not productive.

No offense, Loki, but doing the opposite isn't productive either.

Laterz.

 

[Bester]

Bush Won.
Kerry Lost.
So did Nader, and the rest of the "No Hope In Hell" brigade.

Stop whining, pissing and moaning people.

If you voted, then rather than *****, why don't you get involved in the process?
How many of you handed out flyers? Gathered signatures? Worked to help get those people you are now boo-hooing about on the damn ballots and their messages out?

If all you did was sit home and do nothing, shame on you.

Oh, and if you did not even take the time out of your busy day of sitting around and surfing for porn and electronically beating your chest, then, I repeat - STFU!
For the next 4 years, you people who couldn't find time to add your voice to a cause, just keep them shut. You have NO! right to complain as you did nothing.

"I was protesting by not voting."
Bull!
You were lazy.

You gave up your right to complain. You could have voted for a third party. Hell, Some guy only got around 200 votes. No chance in hell of winning, probably woulda **** himself if he did.

But at least he did something. He didn't just sit at home with his head up his *** and let others think for him, to speak for him, to ACT! for him.

So, all you 80 Million or so non-voters, you just be quiet these next 4 years while Mr. Bush goes and does his thing (or what his masters tell him to do).

This tirad is brought to you by the letters F and U, and the number 2004. It is valid only within the voting territories of the United States of America. All insults are void outside this area. Insults expire in 2008 or at the start of Global Winter, whichever arrives first. FU void in California, New York and Guam.

 

[davidg553]

I hope you're right Ender...Giuliani vs. Hillary. Landslide victory for Giuliani...52 million to 39 million, about 400 EV to 138...that's my prediction if it comes to that. I'd rather see McCain, though, but I don't know everything about him and I don't understand how he got out of that Keating 5 deal. That was him right?

A good test for Guiliani vs Hillary would have been the NY Senate race which he unfortunately dropped out of. Maybe they can have a rematch on that for '06

I think any of these three pairings could occur

Guiliani vs Hillary
Mcain vs Hillary
Romney vs Hillary

 

[PeachMonkey]

How many of you handed out flyers? Gathered signatures? Worked to help get those people you are now boo-hooing about on the damn ballots and their messages out?

Some of us did all of those things and more, Bester.

 

[pete]

To be blunt, much of what the current administration has done stood in stark contrast to the policies of his father's

i got a thousand points of light for a compassionate conservative... keep on rockin' in the free world...

 

[Bester]

Some of us did all of those things and more, Bester.

Then don't give up the fight!

Yes, its hard, its tiring, and its demoralizing.

But you must fight on. These sit on their *** sheep will not. Those in power will not.
So we must.

We must push those smaller parties that we believe in to start earlier, to work together, and to continue to fight. They must work harder. They must gather more voices to add to their own, and they must make it heard.

Sitting around on forums bitching will not do that.
Kaith posted links in his little "campaign" forum to several parties.
Research them, pick one that "speaks" to and for you.
Join it. Add your voice to theirs. Get involved.

Maybe we can get some of these cynical, stay at home and wallow in their own stupidity people educated, and in the trenches with us.

This war has only just begun. The battle to retake our nation begins now.
Who will storm the walls of the bastille and man the barracades with me?