Long 2 finger pokes

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

I completely agree with you guys about being open minded and I have been educated that way and if I appear to been 1 of the: "well so and so said it was this way" then I have mislead you.

That being said I tend to look at the forms differently then I do the techniques. I believe that the forms should be done as Ed Parker taught them and wanted them to be and not changed. I think the opposite about techniques. Play, experiment, change, and mix them up as you see fit. The purpose of forms in any martial art is to preserve the motion of that particular system. If you start changing things then you end up very far away a generation or two later and then they system no longer looks like it was intended to. I think of forms as being like a history book and if you take that mindset you can then ask a VERY important question when trying to understand EPAK and that is: OF ALL THE 154 TECHNIQUES WHY DID HE CHOOSE THOSE TECHNIQUES AND WHY IN THAT ORDER?

Now, do I agree that there is information in the forms that have application use? Of course and that should be explored and experimented with and there are many variation of explanations and most I have not even seen thus far in my journey. However, the forms should (In my opinion) be taught exactly how they are intended to be and then once that is understood and assimilated then look deeper into them but don't change them. That was the intention of my comment and nothing more.

Now, I believe that this all started by the offensive move in long 2. I think of an OFFENSIVE MOVE as a move that you are the 1st to take action and you are not responding to any particular type of attack. If you follow that logic then please show me any where in the forms (1-6) that is offensive.

Anyhow, I appreciate all the input and don’t worry I don't get emotional when I hear criticism or different opinions other then what I have been exposed to. If that were the case I would run from Doc and not stop, think and listen. (Back me up here Doc.) The purpose of these forums is to discuss things and get different perspectives and I think we have accomplished that.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

However, the forms should (In my opinion) be taught exactly how they are intended to be and then once that is understood and assimilated then look deeper into them but don't change them. That was the intention of my comment and nothing more.

Now, I believe that this all started by the offensive move in long 2. I think of an OFFENSIVE MOVE as a move that you are the 1st to take action and you are not responding to any particular type of attack. If you follow that logic then please show me any where in the forms (1-6) that is offensive.

The bold above is what I stated to you in short in my first post (as I mentioned nothing about changing anything) but you seemed to disagree and sited "who told you otherwise" so I explained it in detail in my second post. I'm not sure about the above statement as you described the forms "ideal application" as though they were absolutes in your responses to my first post (hense Doc's and Mr. Billings responses about many interpretataions of the "ideal" or "how they are intended" and Definitive statements) and said "I wasn't thinking this though". But that's neither here nor there moving along to answer your question.

To answer the Underlined part I'll ask you to forget the "Ideal Application" that was told to you, think 'outside the box' and 'look deeper' into the forms. Specifically pay attention to the "motion" and forget what the "attack" is intended to be.

Short Form 1: All sequences are throws, no attack necessary on the opponents part. The hand pulling to hip grabs the wrist the blocking arm executes the leverage to complete the throw. Some leverages are on the arm, some are actually on the opponents body. Example: the first step back and block can be used as 'Ouchi-Gari" from Judo/Ju Jitsu. Your left hand pulls the right wrist, the rght blocking hand strikes down on the right shoulder (leverage) the left leg stepping back sweeps the opponents right foot out from the inside.

Long Form 1: Outward Elbow(reverse motion Sequence) used offensively. Outward elbow to opponents solar pexus. Double factor block or eye slice to opponents face as the head falls from the elbow. Upward block to the opponents chin to lift it up (Just like in the Long 2 sequence). Full reverse punch to solar plexus.

Short Form 2: Inward Block and Chop at the beginning. Just like the freestyles teach you to move the opponents lead hand out of the way the initial block moves the lead hand out of the way and pulls them off balnced followed immediately with the handsword. Try it when squared off right to right against someone who carries the lead hand far from the body.

Long Form 2: The Universal Blocks, Rolling Back knuckle sequence to 6 and 12 can actualy be used as a complex method of engaging the opponents defense and then tying their hands up to execute any offensive manuever. Similar to what wing chun stylists do. Also the final push down to 1:30 can be used to pull down the opponents lead hand before rotating into the twist (guarding centerline) advancing in to deliver the obscure elbow, claw to the face and then a reverse punch followed by using the forearm strike as an armbar takedown on the arm you first grabbed.

Short Form 3: The hand trap-fulcum version of crossing talon can be done on the opponents lead hand by raising your right forearm under their wrist and then pinning their hand with your left hand and proceeding. they don't need to actually grab you.

Long Form 3: Strike version of crossing talon can be executed against the lead hand. Let your rear hand grab their wrist and pull towards your hip while you strike their elbow and proceed. It works out of a 'right to left' or 'left to right' fighting position. Thrusting Wedge against a person who carries both hands high like a boxer. Penetrates the guard, pulls the hands out of the way, and delivers a sharp elbow to the chin/face then proceed.

Form 4: Darting Leaves, block moves lead hand out of the way then proceed. Destructive Kneel is a wrestlers/grapplers arm drag on the lead hand followed by getting behind the opponent and dropping them. Thundering Hammers, use the inward 'block' to move the lead hand out of the way then proceed. Reversing Circles (see Long 2 example above) Snaking Talon or Circling Fans, engage opponenets hands to distract or trap (no attack necessary) proceed with kick. Defensive Cross, left hand pulls lead hand down right back fist strikes face and/or clears far hand down, proceed. Prance of the Tiger, Pull lead hand down (again) and proceed. Five Swords (see short 2 example above)

Form 5: Dance of Death, Move lead hand to the inside with the block and proceed. Leap of Death ( See Destructive Kneel-armdrag application above). Back Breaker, use double parries as hand trap-armdrag on lead hand, circle behind and proceed. Hopping Crane, technically the guy is getting up and therefore not attacking at this time so even though you may have defended before you are not defending now but instead attacking. Sleeper, If he carries the lead hand high, block it out of the way and proceed. Falling Falcon, Ju Jitsu Osoto-Gari with a twisting motion on the lead arm. Circling the horizon (see above examples about lead hand). Leaping Crane, use the middle knuckle on the opponents lead hand and proceed.

Form 6: Glancing Lance, intial 'defensive' movement is an armdrag into a kick, proceed. Circling the Storm (see above about lead hand and arm drag). Entwined lance, engage lead hand, chop to neck, koiuchi-gari from JuJitsu if you use the thrusting sweep with the intent to hook the leg and takedown (or just finish the technique) Broken Rod, the initial arm break can be used on an over-extended lead hand then proceed. Twisted Rod, an outside version of the lead hand maneuver used in Falling Falcon. First and Last, using just the right side or just the left side in sequence on the lead arm is actually a Lock-Flow in disquise.

Form 7: Should be self explanatory you carry two sticks, do you really need him to attack first?

Form 8: See above, but two knives.

Respectfully,
James:asian:

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I completely agree with you guys about being open minded and I have been educated that way and if I appear to been 1 of the: "well so and so said it was this way" then I have mislead you.

I can clear this up very quickly for you and all you have to do is read Lee Wedlake's kenpo katare 201 which explains in detail the basic and exercise forms. You will find in there that he says that the above mentioned moves in long 2 IS THE ONLY OFFENSIVE MOVES IN ANY KENPO FORM. Now, if you are smarter and understang EPAKK more then a 1st generation senior then I am sure that you could give him a shout out and explain to him that he is wrong and YOU are correct..

I don't think I was mislead at all by the way. That's exactly what you did.

Respectfully,
James:asian:

 

[Seabrook]

I have to say, I am in agreement with James' posts.

And while Lee Wedlake certainly has a vast amount of knowledge, he is but ONE source. Just because he states that that one sequence in Long 2 is the only offensive maneuver contained in the forms, doesn't make it true. I, for one, don't agree with that statement one bit.

I don't know James, but judgng from his posts, he is very passionate about our great art. He wasn't being cocky. He just disagreed. And so do I.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[KENPOJOE]

Immortal Man Pointing the Way was how I originally learned them. We also used them in "Poison Hand Set" before there was a Finger Set #1.

-Michael

Hi Folks!
Dear Michael,
This is the first time i've heard the set refered to as the "poison hand set"! It makes perfect sense as in the chinese martial arts they refer to closed hand strikes as "iron hand" and open hand & finger strikes as "poison hand" techniques.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

Very few people would recognize that as not so much as "finger pokes," but as "Immortal Man Pointing" strikes.

Hi Doc!
Good to see you back and hope all went well with the surgery!
To elaborate on the term "Immortal man points the way", the Wu Tang [martial alter] branch of chinese martial arts focuses on the taoist philosophy/religion and the study of longevity and in ancient times...immortality. Wu Tang is reknown for it's double edge swordplay and when weilding the sword, the other hand is placed in the "chien shou" [sword hand] with the two fingers extended so that the the two hands form a triangular action,with the sword hand extending chi down the blade to re-enforce the stabbing or slashing actions and/or to attack or defend. The "immortal man" hand position was also used by taoist priests to draw various charms or invocations in the air [ever see old kung fu zombie movies?]. the martial applications are used to strike the various cavities and vital points as well as medidian points of the body. Mr. Parker studied some of the taoist kung fu arts with Willliam C. Hu, chinese historian, who wrote the book "chinese weapons" w/ E.T. wearner for Ohara Publications. I remember Brian Adams telling me of picking up Mr. Parker from the airport once after Hhe [parker] had trained with Hu, and he seemed to look like "he was about to burst" from all the energy he felt from the taoist breathing exercises and arts he had learned!
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

If you will look at the entire form you will see most everything is done in a series of 3. It starts with the slicing chop, 4 finger poke and spear hand and continues through out the rest of the form. I asked Lee Wedlake about this about a year ago and I believe that he told me; That if you do a poke with the right hand and then the left hand you need to get back to the starting position so the easies way to do that is by doing another poke. So the reason for doing everything in a series of three is to do the motion on both sides and the a third is in there to get back to the position you started from.

Hey, it makes sense to me

By the way that series is the only offensive move found in any EPAK form.

That will will EPAK trivia for $400.00 Alex
%-}

Hi Folks!
Dear Atlanta-Kenpo,
When I was taught the kenpo forms, i was taught that the number of the form was a direct reference to the number of major actions and or strikes done during the form, although there may be acceptions to the rule, the main format for the two forms is to have a set of 2 major actions and/or strikes in the contax of the various parts of the forms.
look at the inward block/chop as 2, the horz poke/vert poke as 2, the outawrd block/punch as 2, the lead/rear punches [like a boxer's "old 1-2"] as 2, the vertical snap/snapping side sick ("if you can jab with your hand,you can jab with your foot") as 2, etc...look throughout the context of the form and you will find that a prevalent theme of the form.
I concur with Lee's comments regarding that three actions are used return a practitioner to the power "right hand" side and complete a circular series of actions, we have both learned tai chi & kung fu, I understood where he was coming from in regards to that.
As far as it being the only offensive series...errr...hummmm...
Not sure if i agree with that one.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

Normaly when I put a post up and I get a silly reply I simply ignore it however this time I can't refuse. Your just to cocky for your own good.

Ok, I understand you zealousness but your not thinking this through my kenpo friend. I can clear this up very quickly for you and all you have to do is read Lee Wedlake's kenpo katare 201 which explains in detail the basic and exercise forms. You will find in there that he says that the above mentioned moves in long 2 IS THE ONLY OFFENSIVE MOVES IN ANY KENPO FORM. Now, if you are smarter and understang EPAKK more then a 1st generation senior then I am sure that you could give him a shout out and explain to him that he is wrong and YOU are correct.

"And here I thought the outward elbow-upward block-reverse punch sequence in long one started with an offensive manuever too."

Not an offensive move here my friend: The outward elbow if the 1st example of a reverse motion and the upward elbow & punch is just the next block in that secequence (inward, outward, upward & downward).

"Let alone the double punches from destructive twins (#3 Forms) that precede any blocking action therefore making them offensive in nature."

How can this not be defensive? You are already being choked? Man if someone grabed me like that I sure would have to do something to DEFEND myself.

"And there are several others that have no block but start with an attack as well. Silly me I must be mistaken though."

By all mean point them out to me and I will give you my explaination as taught to me by Lee Wedlake.

By the way: A offensive move would be a move that was not in RESPONSE TO AN ATTACK!

HOW SILLY DO WE FEEL NOW?

Don't sweat it. We all have our opinions and we are intitled to them.

I hope you have a great day.

By the way. I was born and raised in Baltimore. Man do I miss crabs, downtown and the Orioles. if you ever come to atlanta give me a shout out.

:mp5:

Hi Folks!
Dear Atlanta-Kenpo,
Just wanted to comment on the outward elbow sequence that you elude to as only being the reverse motion of the "reverse punch". That sequence is far more than that. That particular action Mr. Parker learned from learning the southern chinese martial arts [specifically Hung Gar] wherein the form "Taming the tiger" that exact motion is introduced. To give greater insight into the sequence, visualize you are in the right forward bow facing 9 o'clock as you execute the left "reverse punch" horizontal thrust punch with your rear hand. Now have a person attack you from 3 o'clock [behind you] and grab your left shoulder with intention of pulling you to spin you around to "sucker punch" you and see how the sequence is applied [don't forget to make the anchoring elbow compound into a rolling vertical back knuckle [as in strike set 1] after the outward elbow! and have him follow up with a left punch after that happens too! Have fun with that one!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

And here I thought the outward elbow-upward block-reverse punch sequence in long one started with an offensive manuever too. Let alone the double punches from destructive twins (#3 Forms) that precede any blocking action therefore making them offensive in nature. And there are several others that have no block but start with an attack as well. Silly me I must be mistaken though.

Yours in Kenpo,
James

P.S. Remember it's all in your point of view. Especially the 1 and 2 forms that don't have set "techniques" but instead define basic concepts of motion. Some will tell you that the push down sequence to 1:30 in Long 2 is offensive too by striking the stomach, some will say you're blocking a knee. Both are correct applications. Food for thought if your mind is like a parachute (read: only works when open).

Hi Folks!
James, see my previous post to Atlanta-Kenpo to explain the long one sequence.
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

LOL. Everything you stated about the Kenpo System and Mr. Wedlake's book I'm fully aware of. You missed the part about point of view. In Mr. Wedlake's point of view it's the only offensive sequence. I have training with other 1st gens. who think otherwise but I tend not back my points with "Im right because (Insert Parker Black Belt name here) said so" so I'll leave the names out of it. I'll use logic instead. That's why I said an OPEN mind. I was taught things the way you described them years ago. But I was also taught to look for new viewponts and applications after the "ideal application" was understood. Just as the techniques have 3 phases so do the forms and sets. Example: The long 2 series you mentioned is indeed offensive in it's "ideal application". But that motion sequence is also applied in Ju Jitsu as a defensive maneuver on an opponents arm. So no I don't feel silly at all and I'm not being cocky. I'm just doing what I was taught to do in Kenpo. Think for myself and not be stuck on what SOMEONE ELSE SAID IS TRUE. If we all thought like that Mr. Parker would have never looked for other applications of what he was taught by Mr. Chow and American Kenpo as we know it would never have been born. Also reallize I have extensive experience in other arts (and you might too) and the motion sequences you see in American Kenpo are used differently in the other arts I've studied. A great many of the "defenses" you know are actually used offensively in other systems and can be used offensively in ours. For example Short From 1 would be an offensive "Throwing Form" if done in the Ju Jitsu I practice. All the movements are throws with slightly altered foot work alone. Like I said an OPEN MIND. The forms, like all things kenpo, are much deeper than the "Ideal application" taught to most. Another example: What's the difference between the three eye slices in Form 4 (Circling windmills offensive movement) and Snaking Talons opening movements (defensive arm trap-parries). Just a minor angle adjustment and the application in mind. They are actually the same motion applied offensively here and defensively there. Final example: What's the difference between a downward block and an armbar takedown? Where the opponent's arm is in reference to your arms. So like I said whether a move is offensive or defensive is all point of view based. Unless the ideal phase is all there is to you in your training which I hope is not the case. Just keep an OPEN MIND. The problem is I AM THINKING this through. I'm THINKING PASSED what I was initially taught to find more answers and you have to do that if you want to understand this "motion kenpo". Think about it "my kenpo friend."

Respectfully,
James

"Knowledge is power"
"power without PERCEPTION is virtually useless and therefore of no true value"

So how do you PERCEIVE those motion sequences again. And I don't mean what your instructor taught you as he'll tell you he just lays a base. How do YOU PERCEIVE those motion sequences again?

Good luck on your Martial Journey.

Hi Folks!
In regards to the entire "ideal" phase application this thread has taken,Simply stated, If one does not understand the "ideal phase" of an action or series of actions, then it is far more difficult to progress to the "what if" phase because one does not know what the ideal phase was in the first place! As they expand onto the "formulation phase" they cannot differenciate between was is new formative thought and the actual original ideal application. James, you yourself state that
" I was also taught to look for new viewponts and applications after the "ideal application" was understood" so you concur that the understanding of the ideal application is important before looking at the various interpetive elements of the a given action or series of actions. Atlanta kenpo is merely stating what he has been taught as the ideal phase from Mr. Wedlake and I concur with him as far as that being taught as the ideal phase and it's application.
Before we can look "outside the box" we have to know what's "in the box" and more inportantly, what a box is in the first place!!
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
PS: this is my 255th post! woohoo! LOL! but I've only got 2 reputation points... Gee, on ron's rep points it says "he's a beacon of light to all"! Gee, I need to have a telethon to raise rep points for me! :lool:

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Hi Folks!
In regards to the entire "ideal" phase application this thread has taken,Simply stated, If one does not understand the "ideal phase" of an action or series of actions, then it is far more difficult to progress to the "what if" phase because one does not know what the ideal phase was in the first place! As they expand onto the "formulation phase" they cannot differenciate between was is new formative thought and the actual original ideal application. James, you yourself state that
" I was also taught to look for new viewponts and applications after the "ideal application" was understood" so you concur that the understanding of the ideal application is important before looking at the various interpetive elements of the a given action or series of actions. Atlanta kenpo is merely stating what he has been taught as the ideal phase from Mr. Wedlake and I concur with him as far as that being taught as the ideal phase and it's application.
Before we can look "outside the box" we have to know what's "in the box" and more inportantly, what a box is in the first place!!
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
PS: this is my 255th post! woohoo! LOL! but I've only got 2 reputation points... Gee, on ron's rep points it says "he's a beacon of light to all"! Gee, I need to have a telethon to raise rep points for me! :lool:

Hey Mr. Joe. Great conversation on the phone earlier today enjoyed it. Atlanta-Kenpo's posts read like this to me and apparently some others "This is the ideal AND ONLY application of these movements in forms X-Y-Z". Thats where he got my "cocky" responses that were just trying to shed a bit of light on an aspect of kenpo that it didn't seem he was fully utilizing. That aspect being the further analyzation of forms. In my first post I alluded to applications of forms that aren't the ideal aplication. His response was 'well Lee Wedlake said this and that's what it is, if you know better than him then go tell him that'. He also stated that he doesn't tend to look at the forms with a 3 phase concept. So I think he was more than merely stating what the ideal is. He was stating the ideal as if it was the end all be all. That was why he had a followup that mentioned HIS definition of an offensive movement and asked that others 'follow [his] logic and show him where there are offensive movements in any of the forms 1-6. So I gave him offensive applications under HIS definition and logic for all of the forms 1-6 per his request. So I must respectfully disagree ONLY with what you feel he was saying. Other than that you've been of great service as always.

Respectfully,
James

P.S. stating to me "you simply aren't thinking" and "how silly do we feel" didn't exactly help matters either. But I had all the answers when I was a 1st degree too LOL. (That's a joke, tough crowd)

P.P.S. We'll be holding the telethon in a few short weeks.

 

[KENPOJOE]

P.S. stating to me "you simply aren't thinking" and "how silly do we feel" didn't exactly help matters either. But I had all the answers when I was a 1st degree too LOL. (That's a joke, tough crowd)

P.P.S. We'll be holding the telethon in a few short weeks.

Hi Folks!
James, let's just clarify that I never said the above statements and that was "atlanta-kenpo" who wrote THOSE particular statemnts!

BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Hi Folks!
James, let's just clarify that I never said the above statements and that was "atlanta-kenpo" who wrote THOSE particular statemnts!

BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

Master Joe...I know who said that! Gosh you're so sensitive!!! LOL (jking around). talk to you soon.

Edit: Ok I'm slow....that was for me to clarify to OTHER PEOPLE that you didn't say that. Gotcha. master Joe did not state the aforementioned comments. They belonged to another poster.

 

[kevin kilroe]

When one realizes what he knows is very little, then he knows a lot more than he did before!

 

[KENPOJOE]

Hey Mr. Joe. Great conversation on the phone earlier today enjoyed it.

Hi Folks!
BTW, James, with all due respect, "Mr. Joe" is a hairdresser! LOL!
Ever since "funding companies" like EFC and their ilk decided it was more "customer friendly" to use the first name after Mr.,Miss., or Ms.
I think it's a major underminding of the teacher-student respect relationship. Sometimes a little professional is good to maintain a proper level of professionalism. If you go to a regular school, you cannot call your teacher by their first name, why should we alow it in the martial arts? In addition, that is why the titles of sifu/shirfu, sensei, sabumnim, and guro were created in the first place. In EPAK, we use the last name after Mr,Ms. or mrs.
Sorry if I went a little off-topic :-offtopic
Just a pet peeve I have...
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Hi Folks!
BTW, James, with all due respect, "Mr. Joe" is a hairdresser! LOL!
Ever since "funding companies" like EFC and their ilk decided it was more "customer friendly" to use the first name after Mr.,Miss., or Ms.
I think it's a major underminding of the teacher-student respect relationship. Sometimes a little professional is good to maintain a proper level of professionalism. If you go to a regular school, you cannot call your teacher by their first name, why should we alow it in the martial arts? In addition, that is why the titles of sifu/shirfu, sensei, sabumnim, and guro were created in the first place. In EPAK, we use the last name after Mr,Ms. or mrs.
Sorry if I went a little off-topic :-offtopic
Just a pet peeve I have...
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

Ok fair enough. But to explain, I refer to all of my friends by first name. But also add "Mr., Miss., Mrs., etc. when there is a significant age or experience gap out of respect. I have considered you a great friend. I guess I perceived our net chats and phone conversations as more of a friend-friend relation than a teacher-student relation. I guess I'm also used to the fact that all of my students call me James as I see them as friends first and students second. My apologies for being a bit presumptuous, no disrepect was intended. It won't happen again Mr. Rebelo.
Salute.:asian:

 

[Seabrook]

In EPAK, we use the last name after Mr,Ms. or mrs.

KENPOJOE

Well, some do, but a LOT DON'T. Many instructors prefer to be called by their first names only, and I know a good handful that like "Mr." and then their first names.

But I know what you are saying Joe. In my school, I have students call me "Mr. Seabrook" as opposed to "Jamie" although "Jamie" is what I prefer adults to call me outside of class. To me, "Mr. Seabrook" instills a certain level of respect from students which is important in the martial arts. It shows that time and knowledge (in this case in Kenpo) seperates us in experience.

In my 10+ years of running my own school, I notice that all of the children that I teach ALWAYS refer to me as "Mr. Seabrook" outside of the school as well. They respect my skill and know me as "Mr. Seabrook" only.

When I run into kids at the local mall, movie theatre ect., they often say things like "man, you look so different in street clothes, Mr. Seabrook", LOL.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[lonekimono10]

my name is George Elmer, and you can call me anything you want, just don't call me late for dinnerartyon:

 

[kenpo3631]

Hi Folks!
Dear Atlanta-Kenpo,
When I was taught the kenpo forms, i was taught that the number of the form was a direct reference to the number of major actions and or strikes done during the form, although there may be acceptions to the rule, the main format for the two forms is to have a set of 2 major actions and/or strikes in the contax of the various parts of the forms.
look at the inward block/chop as 2, the horz poke/vert poke as 2, the outawrd block/punch as 2, the lead/rear punches [like a boxer's "old 1-2"] as 2, the vertical snap/snapping side sick ("if you can jab with your hand,you can jab with your foot") as 2, etc...look throughout the context of the form and you will find that a prevalent theme of the form.
I concur with Lee's comments regarding that three actions are used return a practitioner to the power "right hand" side and complete a circular series of actions, we have both learned tai chi & kung fu, I understood where he was coming from in regards to that.
As far as it being the only offensive series...errr...hummmm...
Not sure if i agree with that one.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

Hey Joe whataya know! I was shown that the One's and Two's have different timings. Single beat and double beat. I wouldn't say that the first moves in Long 2 are BOTH major moves, but in the context in which you explained it I can see the two beat timing.