skk forms principles

[RevIV]

Might be fun. Would you be using that chicken wrist to block the punch, then? Or to deflect the punch slightly with the motion of the chicken wrist, while the actual wrist hits the chin?

I personally use it to block the punch. I, as an individual and a teacher do not teach chicken wrist strikes to the head. I know there are techniques out there that have it but i do not. The original 2 kata as taught by SGM Pesare has the chicken wrists going straight up, kindof like Daniel-san in Karate kid, "Paint the Fence, Block" I have some students who do chicken wrist push ups and even condition the radial process, I do not. You fight as you train as SGM Pesare said many times this past weekend. However, in 5 pinan i block the punch and strike the face at the same time on the rising front punch. For the drill purpose it is a little easier just to do it as a block
Jesse

 

[JTKenpo]

what kind of hand conditioning? Striking? grasping? clawing? poking?
Jesse

Yes all of the above..I wish I could say I do this but it wouldn't be true. Diving your hands into sand grasping and pulling it out. From there moving to more corse materials such as stone dust, then pebbles so on and so forth. The hard core hand training. Even Makawara training is good to toughen the hands. I see the open hand strikes and pokes as reminders that it is part of the training.

 

[marlon]

I see one of the predominant principles in 3 kata being how to defend yourself from awkward positions ie transitions. In this form we use the transitions as our first point of attack/defense rather then setting a fighting stance. I believe this is a precursor to forms such as swift tigers where we are dealing with multiple opponents and not able to finish a defense before having to defend against another position then returning to the previous attacker. Open hand strikes are also more prevelant in this form and I believe this shows the Kempo founders pointing out how important finger training to be and the idea of toughening the hands. Thoughts?

i am more of the soft side to kempo rather than the hard so hand conditioning i do not do much of, although body conditioning i love. As for 3 kata it is the first kata that emphasizes locks and controls...the addition of the jumping kick is fun for everyone and good for cardio. I like the little 'escape' with the follow up kick. it is a good tactic

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[JTKenpo]

i am more of the soft side to kempo rather than the hard so hand conditioning i do not do much of, although body conditioning i love. As for 3 kata it is the first kata that emphasizes locks and controls...the addition of the jumping kick is fun for everyone and good for cardio. I like the little 'escape' with the follow up kick. it is a good tactic

respectfully,
Marlon

Marlon, besides the opening sequence where do you find the locks and controls? Do you see these applications in the middle sequence with the low blocks then tiger claws and immortal man strikes?

 

[DavidCC]

anywhere your hands cross in a form, look for joint lock applications.

 

[JTKenpo]

anywhere your hands cross in a form, look for joint lock applications.

Thats why I asked, there aren't that many hand crosses in three kata.

 

[Matt]

Marlon, besides the opening sequence where do you find the locks and controls? Do you see these applications in the middle sequence with the low blocks then tiger claws and immortal man strikes?

3 Kata is littered with them, especially in the section you reference.

 

[marlon]

anywhere your hands cross in a form, look for joint lock applications.

yeah..what David said.

marlon

 

[marlon]

Marlon, besides the opening sequence where do you find the locks and controls? Do you see these applications in the middle sequence with the low blocks then tiger claws and immortal man strikes?

Yes there and there are many areas to apply joint locks in all the forms. As David and Matt pointed out when the arms cross these are usually good indications of joint locks. In terms of principles as opposed to application i see theis form as emphasizing joint locks because of the sequences that are done slow. These points in forms have trtaditionally indicated body / joint manipulation.

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[JTKenpo]

Yes there and there are many areas to apply joint locks in all the forms. As David and Matt pointed out when the arms cross these are usually good indications of joint locks. In terms of principles as opposed to application i see theis form as emphasizing joint locks because of the sequences that are done slow. These points in forms have trtaditionally indicated body / joint manipulation.

respectfully,
Marlon

My apologies for asking a vague question, and yes I deserve 50 lashings. I understand where arms cross there is joint manipulation and this form is rittle with them, but so are all the forms (I believe that was mentioned too). My question should have been why do you feel these principles are key in this particular form. Marlon answered my question with the statement about doing the sequence slow. Thanks Marlon you got to what I should have asked in the first place.

 

[DavidCC]

Do you guys do the sequence with crossed "immortal man" fingers, to an upward open hand block with outward knifehand block, then 3 kicks?

What do you know about that first part, the crossed fingers then the blocks? Any details on application or meaning?

thanks!
-David

 

[marlon]

Do you guys do the sequence with crossed "immortal man" fingers, to an upward open hand block with outward knifehand block, then 3 kicks?

What do you know about that first part, the crossed fingers then the blocks? Any details on application or meaning?

thanks!
-David

ok the immortal man strikes...other than the obvious i 've got nothing!!

marlon

 

[RevIV]

ok the immortal man strikes...other than the obvious i 've got nothing!!

marlon

This form was first taught on the East Coast by SGM Pesare. Now some people have shown me different applications But SGM Pesare was very clear on what they were taught to him as, by Sijo Gascon in the 50's. They were the basic 3 gaurds of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu. If you watch any of the old 8mm's of either Parker's or other peoples Kempo lineage you will see these 3 gaurds after the cross and covers. After the 3 gaurd positions you attack those 3 people with the kicks. Not what you were searching for but thats straight from the source.
Jesse

 

[JTKenpo]

This form was first taught on the East Coast by SGM Pesare. Now some people have shown me different applications But SGM Pesare was very clear on what they were taught to him as, by Sijo Gascon in the 50's. They were the basic 3 gaurds of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu. If you watch any of the old 8mm's of either Parker's or other peoples Kempo lineage you will see these 3 gaurds after the cross and covers. After the 3 gaurd positions you attack those 3 people with the kicks. Not what you were searching for but thats straight from the source.
Jesse

Jesse when you say 3 guard positions do you mean the 3 positions on the clock or do you mean the low block, tigers claw, and immortal mans?

 

[DavidCC]

This form was first taught on the East Coast by SGM Pesare. Now some people have shown me different applications But SGM Pesare was very clear on what they were taught to him as, by Sijo Gascon in the 50's. They were the basic 3 gaurds of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu. If you watch any of the old 8mm's of either Parker's or other peoples Kempo lineage you will see these 3 gaurds after the cross and covers. After the 3 gaurd positions you attack those 3 people with the kicks. Not what you were searching for but thats straight from the source.
Jesse

that's good info, thanks! but I wonder if it got changed between then and now because what we are doing doesn't seem much like a guard LOL

 

[14 Kempo]

This form was first taught on the East Coast by SGM Pesare. Now some people have shown me different applications But SGM Pesare was very clear on what they were taught to him as, by Sijo Gascon in the 50's. They were the basic 3 gaurds of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu. If you watch any of the old 8mm's of either Parker's or other peoples Kempo lineage you will see these 3 gaurds after the cross and covers. After the 3 gaurd positions you attack those 3 people with the kicks. Not what you were searching for but thats straight from the source.
Jesse

Damn, very rarely am I right, but that's exactly how I saw it and how I teach it ... LOL ... that might be a first!

 

[marlon]

This form was first taught on the East Coast by SGM Pesare. Now some people have shown me different applications But SGM Pesare was very clear on what they were taught to him as, by Sijo Gascon in the 50's. They were the basic 3 gaurds of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu. If you watch any of the old 8mm's of either Parker's or other peoples Kempo lineage you will see these 3 gaurds after the cross and covers. After the 3 gaurd positions you attack those 3 people with the kicks. Not what you were searching for but thats straight from the source.
Jesse

only looking for the truth Jesse. Thanks for the info!!

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

ok so why would someone do a guard with the hands in an immortal man posistion?

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[JTKenpo]

ok so why would someone do a guard with the hands in an immortal man posistion?

respectfully,
Marlon

All I can picture is Elvis "don't you ever touch me again" with his Elvis drawl...sorry it just struck me funny.

 

[marlon]

All I can picture is Elvis "don't you ever touch me again" with his Elvis drawl...sorry it just struck me funny.