Lone wing chun practitioners need help!!!

[zepedawingchun]

haris I just thought of it and feel bad for your situation. There is a local sifu here who offers an international training program through videos and webcam which I think might be your best bet. Here is his website http://awcaonline.com/. I know its never a replacement for in person training but seems like your best option at this point

I posted this in another thread, please read:

Yes, it is possible to be studing sub-standard Wing Chun. I won't name names, but a few years back I met a couple of guys who studied from someone I suspected of not really teaching Wing Chun or even knowing the whole system. The 2 guys learned SNT from this guy and then they learned the remaining forms from videos. When they came to visit me, I asked if they would chi sao with me, and they were terrible. I spent the next 2 hours fixing or trying to fix their stances, hand positions, structure, everything . They claimed 4 years with this guy when I met them. A few years later, these same 2 guys were off teaching, running a public school, and I'm sure they didn't do anything to improve their skills in the least bit.

So yeah, you can learn sub-par Wing Chun. It happens all the time from people who study for a year or 2 and think that's all they need. Think they know what WC is all about and go out and teach.

That is why you have to delve into the credentials of any martial artist and see if they actually are legitimate. That's the first place to start.

I too, feel bad for Haris Lamboo Faisal and wish his situation was different. I think everyone who wants to, should train in Wing Chun. But it is what it is. And as I stated earlier in this thread, there are a million things in this world you can have and a million things you can't. Just because he wants it doesn't mean he can or will get it. Just because I want a new Ferrari 599GTB or 458 Italia, and can't afford it, doesn't mean I can go and buy one or steal one from some rich guy because I want one or think I'm entitled to own one. I think it is a mistake for him to continue the video or webcam idea. The two guys I mentioned above were under the guidance of a sifu at first (albeit a bad one) and then got their Wing Chun from tapes by Leung Ting. . . .and still got it completely wrong. It just proves my point even more as to how much of a mistake it is.

Now Haris Lamboo Faisal can do whatever he wants, so can everyone else, it is his choice. But I guarantee you, it will come back sometime in the future and bite him in the ***.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

I posted this in another thread, please read:

Yes, it is possible to be studing sub-standard Wing Chun. I won't name names, but a few years back I met a couple of guys who studied from someone I suspected of not really teaching Wing Chun or even knowing the whole system. The 2 guys learned SNT from this guy and then they learned the remaining forms from videos. When they came to visit me, I asked if they would chi sao with me, and they were terrible. I spent the next 2 hours fixing or trying to fix their stances, hand positions, structure, everything . They claimed 4 years with this guy when I met them. A few years later, these same 2 guys were off teaching, running a public school, and I'm sure they didn't do anything to improve their skills in the least bit.

So yeah, you can learn sub-par Wing Chun. It happens all the time from people who study for a year or 2 and think that's all they need. Think they know what WC is all about and go out and teach.

That is why you have to delve into the credentials of any martial artist and see if they actually are legitimate. That's the first place to start.

I too, feel bad for Haris Lamboo Faisal and wish his situation was different. I think everyone who wants to, should train in Wing Chun. But it is what it is. And as I stated earlier in this thread, there are a million things in this world you can have and a million things you can't. Just because he wants it doesn't mean he can or will get it. Just because I want a new Ferrari 599GTB or 458 Italia, and can't afford it, doesn't mean I can go and buy one or steal one from some rich guy because I want one or think I'm entitled to own one. I think it is a mistake for him to continue the video or webcam idea. The two guys I mentioned above were under the guidance of a sifu at first (albeit a bad one) and then got their Wing Chun from tapes by Leung Ting. . . .and still got it completely wrong. It just proves my point even more as to how much of a mistake it is.

Now Haris Lamboo Faisal can do whatever he wants, so can everyone else, it is his choice. But I guarantee you, it will come back sometime in the future and bite him in the ***.

Tut Tut ... i know this is a commitment my friend ... i know your concern here is obviously the proper promotion of wing chun rather than a half assed system that will do more harm than benefit since no one can physically instruct me ... so here it is in simple words , it not for the sake of some sort of recognition i donot want to run a wc school or anything of the sort all i want is to develop this wonderful art as something that is mine , in my head something that cant be taken away... because my flawed nature to hold what i think is dear to me has bitten me in the *** more than once but that doesnt stop me from caring for the things i truly enjoy ... if Wc was a ferrari then i already have that ferrari though i might be a bad driver with time and practice and proper care (not just a few years) i might be half way decent ... who knows i might even find a good instructor to learn from , sometimes you need to have a little faith zepeda =)

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

haris I just thought of it and feel bad for your situation. There is a local sifu here who offers an international training program through videos and webcam which I think might be your best bet. Here is his website http://awcaonline.com/. I know its never a replacement for in person training but seems like your best option at this point

EDIT thank you that is a very helpful resource i've been looking throught he site and it actually explains sil lim tao very well so far im not going to delve deeper until i think im decent at alt .... in the meanwhile i've been practicing whing chun sil lim tao in three parts every day for three or four days i think ... i think i've improved very slightly you can watch my progress though however little here, this video is from after today's training session:

 

[tenzen]

Again we have to applaud your efforts but there is a lot wrong here still. And I don't mean a lot I mean a whole lot. And your not understanding the sectioning that we were talking about. Forget section 2 and 3 completely. Work on the first section only everyday for the next month and a half at the very least. I can't correct you on this video because I'm not sure where to begin. Everything was wrong starting with your feet and moving up.

 

[zepedawingchun]

EDIT thank you that is a very helpful resource i've been looking throught he site and it actually explains sil lim tao very well so far im not going to delve deeper until i think im decent at alt .... in the meanwhile i've been practicing whing chun sil lim tao in three parts every day for three or four days i think ... i think i've improved very slightly you can watch my progress though however little here, this video is from after today's training session:

Still needs a lot of work my friend. It's what I expect from someone doing it on their own. Whos' SNT (SLT) are you following? Your opening is terrible, there is so much in just the opening from standing erect to moving and finishing in the Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma stance before you define the centerline (crossing hands at the wrist down and then up is defining centerline, we call sup sau because it looks like the chinese character 10). And even crossing the hands to define centerline is all wrong.

In the Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma stance (first abduction energy stance or goat riding stance), you need to pigeon toe your stance. . . .toes pointed inward, knees abducted inward with 2 fists distance between them, upper body sitting directly over your hips, with the hips tucked inward and upward. Also, elbows are too close to the body when defining the centerline. They need to come out at least one and one half fist distance from your chest (the immoveable elbow distance or position). There's more, but that is even before you start actually doing the hand positions. Too much to point out and correct over the net.

 

[mook jong man]

EDIT thank you that is a very helpful resource i've been looking throught he site and it actually explains sil lim tao very well so far im not going to delve deeper until i think im decent at alt .... in the meanwhile i've been practicing whing chun sil lim tao in three parts every day for three or four days i think ... i think i've improved very slightly you can watch my progress though however little here, this video is from after today's training session:

I meant only work on the first section , that's it.
Stop at the point where you would start the downward palm strikes because that is the start of the second section.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Tut Tut ... i know this is a commitment my friend ... i know your concern here is obviously the proper promotion of wing chun rather than a half assed system that will do more harm than benefit since no one can physically instruct me ... so here it is in simple words , it not for the sake of some sort of recognition i donot want to run a wc school or anything of the sort all i want is to develop this wonderful art as something that is mine , in my head something that cant be taken away... because my flawed nature to hold what i think is dear to me has bitten me in the *** more than once but that doesnt stop me from caring for the things i truly enjoy ... if Wc was a ferrari then i already have that ferrari though i might be a bad driver with time and practice and proper care (not just a few years) i might be half way decent ... who knows i might even find a good instructor to learn from , sometimes you need to have a little faith zepeda =)

It's not about whether you want to run a school or not, learning to fight or not, being recognized or not, it's about learning the system (the art) correctly, no matter what you plan to do with it.

Please don't be offended by what I'm about to say. I gave up on having faith in people long ago. And everything you're doing is proving everything I'm saying. With learning on your own, you won't be even half way decent. Trust me, I've seen this all too many times before. You are no exception. And if you continue, when you do find a Wing Chun instructor, he'll never be able to correct what your doing wrong because it will be too ingrained into your muscle memory, that you will continue to do it wrong even after your sifu corrects you. I see it all too often. I'm sorry to say it but it's all too true.

 

[Eric_H]

In the Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma stance (first abduction energy stance or goat riding stance), you need to pigeon toe your stance. . . .toes pointed inward, knees abducted inward with 2 fists distance between them

Zepeda,

I know that some branches of WC practice their YGKYM this way - it's not something I personally believe to be effective, but have seen it done. I would caution telling people without an instructor to do such an extreme stance for the likelyhood of putting too much pressure on the knee in a bad area. I have had several junior training brothers in the past who had knee problems after training that way under a different WC system so I am wary of it.

Just 2c.

 

[mook jong man]

Zepeda,

I know that some branches of WC practice their YGKYM this way - it's not something I personally believe to be effective, but have seen it done. I would caution telling people without an instructor to do such an extreme stance for the likelyhood of putting too much pressure on the knee in a bad area. I have had several junior training brothers in the past who had knee problems after training that way under a different WC system so I am wary of it.

Just 2c.

I would say that Zepeda's description of the stance is pretty spot on , in my lineage we don't focus on the adduction bit , we just sink down and relax.
But I just measured the space between my knees while in my stance and indeed it was two fists distance wide .

I know people do get lazy with the stance in relation to the position of the feet , but in my opinion it is imperative that the feet must be pidgeon toed in order to properly focus force to the centreline .

Another thing to consider is that it is a lot faster to get your knee up on the the centreline to jam a kick or launch your own kick when the knee is already pointed towards the centre.
I would argue that any other foot position other than pidgeon toed is a lazy Wing Chun stance or not really Wing Chun at all.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Again we have to applaud your efforts but there is a lot wrong here still. And I don't mean a lot I mean a whole lot. And your not understanding the sectioning that we were talking about. Forget section 2 and 3 completely. Work on the first section only everyday for the next month and a half at the very least. I can't correct you on this video because I'm not sure where to begin. Everything was wrong starting with your feet and moving up.

one section at a time not all three , bluner on my part Mook has said that twice ... i thinkk i need to stop being childish about this if i am to make this work.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

It's not about whether you want to run a school or not, learning to fight or not, being recognized or not, it's about learning the system (the art) correctly, no matter what you plan to do with it.

Please don't be offended by what I'm about to say. I gave up on having faith in people long ago. And everything you're doing is proving everything I'm saying. With learning on your own, you won't be even half way decent. Trust me, I've seen this all too many times before. You are no exception. And if you continue, when you do find a Wing Chun instructor, he'll never be able to correct what your doing wrong because it will be too ingrained into your muscle memory, that you will continue to do it wrong even after your sifu corrects you. I see it all too often. I'm sorry to say it but it's all too true.

Okay i think i the lineage i am trying to imitate is yip man's , the original since it is his old video that i have been working with mostly ... along with advice on the forum you and mook have been rather helpful along with everyone else ... your point about the toes being pointed inward and the knees being two fists apart is what im gonna try to fix next ... if you have lost faith in people a long time ago then we have one thing in common zepeda ... though the demise of mine was much recent ... i will be honest ... im doing this so that i dont lose faith in myself ... that is also the truth , that is generally the nature of truths they tend to be cold ... But i'll be damned if i let the next truth be a cold one i know it might take a while and i will not let myself turn to steel in the process but i will give it my heart for i know my failures in wc every time they occour thanks to you guys and there is a limit to how many times one can fail but there is no limit to how many things one can learn.

Edit: upon thinking a little about it , i think its more a question of having faith in the right people than having faith in people in general but enough with my stupid view on people and their reliability for it is a morbid place to go to heh.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

I meant only work on the first section , that's it.
Stop at the point where you would start the downward palm strikes because that is the start of the second section.

yeah sorry about that mook i feel like an idiot , i did the division in seven step after counting everything but i was stupid enough to keep practicing all three parts. umm okay from today onwards its section 1 only. and i think i might also know what i am missing ... and im pretty sure it has alot to do with trying to perfect too many things at the same time. My bad but i think i have the angles figured out now.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

I would say that Zepeda's description of the stance is pretty spot on , in my lineage we don't focus on the adduction bit , we just sink down and relax.
But I just measured the space between my knees while in my stance and indeed it was two fists distance wide .

I know people do get lazy with the stance in relation to the position of the feet , but in my opinion it is imperative that the feet must be pidgeon toed in order to properly focus force to the centreline .

Another thing to consider is that it is a lot faster to get your knee up on the the centreline to jam a kick or launch your own kick when the knee is already pointed towards the centre.
I would argue that any other foot position other than pidgeon toed is a lazy Wing Chun stance or not really Wing Chun at all.

Duly noted sir.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Zepeda,

I know that some branches of WC practice their YGKYM this way - it's not something I personally believe to be effective, but have seen it done. I would caution telling people without an instructor to do such an extreme stance for the likelyhood of putting too much pressure on the knee in a bad area. I have had several junior training brothers in the past who had knee problems after training that way under a different WC system so I am wary of it.

Just 2c.

i have strong legs =p

 

[mook jong man]

i have strong legs =p

Something that will screw your knees up faster than anything is doing very fast kicks in the air to the point of lock out .
You can practice leg raising as fast as you want , but don't do full power kicks in the air , you will wreck your cartilage as I have done , from doing lots of fast kicks in the air when I was younger.
Save your kicking at full power and speed for when you have a solid target like a human , heavy bag or a kick shield.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Zepeda,

I know that some branches of WC practice their YGKYM this way - it's not something I personally believe to be effective, but have seen it done. I would caution telling people without an instructor to do such an extreme stance for the likelyhood of putting too much pressure on the knee in a bad area. I have had several junior training brothers in the past who had knee problems after training that way under a different WC system so I am wary of it.

Just 2c.

The stance is not extreme if done correctly (that is the key). Rule of thumb, if at any time you start having problems with your knees, or your knees start to hurt or ache, then you're doing something wrong. Too much pressure with the abduction, knees bent too much, or toes pointed in too much are the main causes. Also, putting too much weight on one leg as opposed to the other. That is another reason why you can't learn this without an instructor present to correct, see, and feel whether you're structure (mainly stance) is correct. The YJKYM stance is for building strength in the ligamints, tendons, and muscles in the legs, feet, and buttocks of the lower body. . . . . . not the joints. All that stuff holds the joints together.

 

[mook jong man]

The stance is not extreme if done correctly (that is the key). Rule of thumb, if at any time you start having problems with your knees, or your knees start to hurt or ache, then you're doing something wrong. Too much pressure with the abduction, knees bent too much, or toes pointed in too much are the main causes. Also, putting too much weight on one leg as opposed to the other. That is another reason why you can't learn this without an instructor present to correct, see, and feel whether you're structure (mainly stance) is correct. The YJKYM stance is for building strength in the ligamints, tendons, and muscles in the legs, feet, and buttocks of the lower body. . . . . . not the joints. All that stuff holds the joints together.

I think another good indicator is whether you can you actually move and kick comfortably whilst in your stance .
You see some people and their knees are that close together that they can't possibly move or kick with any fluidity.
Or their stance is far too wide also hampering their mobility and ability to kick without telegraphing as there is too much weight tranference going on.

While in the stance you should be able to step to all points of the compass or kick fluidly in any direction and still keep your bodyweight centered and non committal.

 

[tenzen]

Just to add on the whole stance bit, to give some here a better understanding of what and why in regards to this stance. The toes are pointed inward like this for a few reasons such as allignment of energy vessels in regards to chi meridians and to help generate power to the center. But the number one main reason is that by pointing your toes to the center and sinking in this manner you are protecting the groin. See wing chun was developed to combat the systems of that time while creating some of the greatest defense possible, almost every chinese martial art has kicks to the groin ygkym makes it close to impossible to get a foot to the nuts.

To eric h, you must have been taught this stance wrong. This stance develops the legs and their muuscles for very powerful kicking. Yip man was well known for his kicking ability, despite most of todays wc focusing more on the hands. Wc is 50/50 on arms and legs. Chi gerk should be practiced just as much if not more than chi sau. The kicks of wc can be very effective if used right, in turn ygkym develops the proper muscles for efficient kicking. This art was developed with the mechanics of the natural body in mind and to preserve the body so it can be practiced into the golden years to its fullest potential. Therefore it is highly likely that you were taught wrong. The videos of yip man that are around the internet were of him performing wing chun perfectly, he was practically on his death bed when that footage was taken, he died shortly after it was taken.

 

[mook jong man]

It's also worth pointing out that the YCKYM , apart from being used to guard the groin and launch rapid kicks along the centreline also has another wonderful use , that of leg locking .

For the benefit of the people that aren't familiar with the leg locking application of the stance , it is basically interlocking your leg with their leg at the shin and sinking your weight down on that leg , it can be used to break their leg at the knee , or if done with less vigour just to force them down to the ground .

This is where the pidgeon toed foot position comes into play , as it used to trap the opponents foot at the ankle , your foot pointed inwards traps the back of his ankle so he has nowhere to go but down.
Best used in situations where the opponent is in a side on stance with a lead leg that is sticking out begging to be attacked.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Alright got it ... incorportating into the drill