Lone wing chun practitioners need help!!!

[zepedawingchun]

I think it is a good idea. We are not messing with his life. That statement is an exaggeration. Was it not Yang Lu Chan who leant taichi by initially spying on a master?

Z, worry not about reputations, they are not important. Who cares what others think of wing chun? No one owns wing chun so why the need to feel so possessive? It was here before us and will most certainly be here once we are gone. I don't think there is a worst way to learn but a worst way to be instructed might be a more suitable way to think about it.

With reference to the auto mechanic, how people love engines fix them without any formal training? Loads. He does not to do it as a job but for himself.

As I said, no one owns wing chun and there should be no knowledge filter. Just because in the olden days the instruction was slow in terms of what you got does not mean that is the best way to teach. My belief is that this model is down right ridiculous. And just because someone has reached a certain level in any martial arts does not equate to teaching ability.

I don't know who Lang Yu Chan is and whether he learned tai chi from spying or not. That's not my concern. I teach Wing Chun and that s what I'm concerned about. And spying from the bushes, or through a window, or whatever, is not the same as learning from videos or online.

We don't know why Haris Lamboo Faisal wants to study Wing Chun. Or whether one day he may have to use it to protect himself. But as people who care for our fellow human beings, we owe it to him to make sure if he does have to do something to protect himself, the Wing Chun he tries to use doesn't fail him because he learned or practiced it incorrectly.

As for the comment about reputations not being important, I have to disagree. As a business professional in the IT/IS and martial arts world, reputation is important. Sometimes your reputation speaks for you when you can't. Also, a lot of people, companies, law enforcement, and the government, select or don't select companies and individuals because of their reputations or lack of.

In the 1990's, the US government selected my Sifu to help the U.S. Army update their close quarter hand to hand combat manuals. Learning stuff that our military personnel's lives may depend on when in the field of close quarter combat. And he was chosen first because of his reputation and then when they saw him, his skills. (See bio http://www.francisfongacademy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=78)

Locally, I have had several of the county sheriff partrol officers come to me for training in Wing Chun because of my and the arts reputation. I have spoke to these officers on many occasions and they tell me about how they use the Wing Chun they've been trained in, in their jobs when dealing with criminals. Their lives depend on the training they get from the government and whatever or whomever they seek out for on their own training (mainly someone like me or other martial artists they may contact).

Many of my students have come to me because of my reputation as an instructor and practitioner in Wing Chun. I have been an instructor in Wing Chun for over 22 years, and my reputation is important to me. People know when they come to me for training, they will get the best training they can for their hard earned money. As a professional, I am concerned that what people learn from me will aid them when they have to use it.

Why do you chose to go to this company for service over that company? A lot of times it's because of reputation. Why do some people choose this martial art over that martial art when there are a number to choose from? A lot of times it's because they've heard of the reputation of this art over that art. After all this that I have stated, don't tell me reputation is not important and nobody cares. Yes they do.

You're right about nobody owning Wing Chun. But it is our duty as practitioners to teach it in the best way possible and pass it on correctly so that it won't disappear in the next few generations.

And as for auto mechanics, to be a professional mechanic (who cares about some backyard wrench turner. When you can't fix it, who do you go to, a professional), you have to have education and certification through authorized, accredited, certified, and recognized mechanic schools to work for a dealership or legitimate repair shops. If you aren't, your business won't last too long, especially in the U.S. You can be the best back yard mechanic, but with out certification, nobody with hire you or takes you serious.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

I have to commend you....that at least is starting to look like WC.....there is much to work on.
I wish I had a dozen students with your drive.
Even though I will always believe WC is best learned from a live teacher I would be willing to do what I can to help you out. Maybe some short video tutorials?
I mean hell, if you're going to do it, why not at least get some help, right???

Thank you

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Ok , mate your starting to win me over , that is something we may be able to start working with.
But you have to decide which lineage you are going to do , otherwise you are just going to confuse yourself and us .

I only have expertise in my lineage as I have not done any other , whilst there are some things I think are universal , there are marked differences in both the terminology of some movements and the way they are performed across the different lineages.

If you are determined to do this , and it looks like you are , then I suggest that you break up the Sil Lum Tao into it's three sections like as what would happen in a proper Kwoon for a beginner student.
Just learn the first section first , and do not advance to learning the other sections until you have received some feed back to see how well or badly you are doing it.

Regarding your latest cinematic masterpiece , fix the lighting up , we can't see what you are doing , it looks like a bad 70's porno movie.

These things are pretty universal I reckon when it comes to Wing Chun , when you measure your stance out , bend the knees , then toes out , then heels out.

Heels should be shoulder width apart , toes should be pointing towards the centre , If I straightened my arm out and visualised lines coming from my feet , they would meet roughly where the end of my arm is to form the apex of a triangle

Tilt your pelvis forward , so the hips are locked in and the spine is straightened , this joins the upper and lower body into one cohesive unit.

Look side on in a mirror , from the back of the the shoulders to the knees should be a straight line , check to make sure you are not leaning back , back of shoulders in line with back of heels ,no further.

Sink your weight down so that knees are approximately just over the toes and weight is evenly distributed .

I must state that this is only my lineages version of the stance , other lineages will have an emphasis on having a linkage effect between the knees , in ours we just sink down and relax.

I am not going to worry about up top because I don't know what you are doing , there seem to be some weird embellishments to the form that I haven't seen before.
Maybe someone else can recognise it , but whatever you are doing , initiate the movement from the elbow and except for when striking , and the sidewards parry maintain the angle of the arm , and keep the wrists on the centreline .

Remember , get competent one section at a time before you go any further .

Every so often i get a about half an hour in a sparsely populated workspace in front of the mirror ... i've actually done exactly that after reading your post earlier during work i remembered to check MT on my cellphone because about after half an hour of sitting idle my hand did a motion which resembled a hin sao i think .... so during the free time i get i've divided the form into parts though i dont know if they are correctly divided and also i kept evertyhing you said in mind before i started practicing the sil lim tao in the afternoon... one question though why is it always left firs then right?

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Hmmm... very awkward. Your feet are all wrong and you don't readjust them during the form. A lot of your angles appear to be off and your fist is closed during your bong sau, that's gonna cause you to damage the radial nerve giving the funny bone effect. The hand should be like the wing of a crane there. Also your tan sau is too low. There's a lot of craziness going on and you are very unsure of yourself. Listen to what mook has said about learning slt in its sections and don't progress to the next one until someone in here gives you the go ahead.

Could you direct us to the video you are using so we may better figure out how to help you and with what lineage you are working from. To me it almost looks like the master wong stuff but does have some resemblance to the cheung stuff. Its kind of confusing because I see elements from man different lineages which would mean that you are trying to learn it from a few video sources. Is that the case? If so you will have to pick one source and stick with it.

That website i posted for you a few pages back is for people like yourself who are trying to learn online. Thats why i posted it for you. Obviously we dont believe in that but it can be a big help for you and what your attempting to do. It breaks everythin down for you. Give it a looking over and see what you can get out of it. In the meantime direct us to your current video source so we can figure this madness out.

While practicing today at work during free time i actually made it a point not to close my fist during bong sau
the lsource of the videos i tried to reproduce my imperfect sil lim tao are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWDx4WiOipc&feature=channel_video_title

I found that ip man's sil lim tao was rather quick for the untrained eye and so i used the second one and first one in conjunction to see whether i could decipher the movements.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Thats very thoughtful to your family and I have been there myself but sometimes we must concentrate on ourselves.
No need for apologies, your on a long journey learning allsorts as you go, you didn't make a mistake, you just learn't something.

2 things in your 1st section of SLT, circling your hand at the wrist not the arm and when feeding your tan sau relax and come up to shoulder height or else it will be ineffective.

thank you i will keep that in mind. try to keep the arm as relaxed as possible guess i need some practice.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

I don't know who Lang Yu Chan is and whether he learned tai chi from spying or not. That's not my concern. I teach Wing Chun and that s what I'm concerned about. And spying from the bushes, or through a window, or whatever, is not the same as learning from videos or online.

We don't know why Haris Lamboo Faisal wants to study Wing Chun. Or whether one day he may have to use it to protect himself. But as people who care for our fellow human beings, we owe it to him to make sure if he does have to do something to protect himself, the Wing Chun he tries to use doesn't fail him because he learned or practiced it incorrectly.

As for the comment about reputations not being important, I have to disagree. As a business professional in the IT/IS and martial arts world, reputation is important. Sometimes your reputation speaks for you when you can't. Also, a lot of people, companies, law enforcement, and the government, select or don't select companies and individuals because of their reputations or lack of.

In the 1990's, the US government selected my Sifu to help the U.S. Army update their close quarter hand to hand combat manuals. Learning stuff that our military personnel's lives may depend on when in the field of close quarter combat. And he was chosen first because of his reputation and then when they saw him, his skills. (See bio http://www.francisfongacademy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=78)

Locally, I have had several of the county sheriff partrol officers come to me for training in Wing Chun because of my and the arts reputation. I have spoke to these officers on many occasions and they tell me about how they use the Wing Chun they've been trained in, in their jobs when dealing with criminals. Their lives depend on the training they get from the government and whatever or whomever they seek out for on their own training (mainly someone like me or other martial artists they may contact).

Many of my students have come to me because of my reputation as an instructor and practitioner in Wing Chun. I have been an instructor in Wing Chun for over 22 years, and my reputation is important to me. People know when they come to me for training, they will get the best training they can for their hard earned money. As a professional, I am concerned that what people learn from me will aid them when they have to use it.

Why do you chose to go to this company for service over that company? A lot of times it's because of reputation. Why do some people choose this martial art over that martial art when there are a number to choose from? A lot of times it's because they've heard of the reputation of this art over that art. After all this that I have stated, don't tell me reputation is not important and nobody cares. Yes they do.

You're right about nobody owning Wing Chun. But it is our duty as practitioners to teach it in the best way possible and pass it on correctly so that it won't disappear in the next few generations.

And as for auto mechanics, to be a professional mechanic (who cares about some backyard wrench turner. When you can't fix it, who do you go to, a professional), you have to have education and certification through authorized, accredited, certified, and recognized mechanic schools to work for a dealership or legitimate repair shops. If you aren't, your business won't last too long, especially in the U.S. You can be the best back yard mechanic, but with out certification, nobody with hire you or takes you serious.

Wow your academy and your sifu seem really amazing.

 

[wtxs]

Haris Lamboo Faisal, since you are determined to learn WC any way you can, an very good training DVD to date IMHO is the one by Wong Shun Leung - The Science of In-Fighting.

The video could be found on the net, it will show you how to properly execute the WC movements.

 

[chain punch]

I don't know who Lang Yu Chan is and whether he learned tai chi from spying or not. That's not my concern. I teach Wing Chun and that s what I'm concerned about. And spying from the bushes, or through a window, or whatever, is not the same as learning from videos or online.

We don't know why Haris Lamboo Faisal wants to study Wing Chun. Or whether one day he may have to use it to protect himself. But as people who care for our fellow human beings, we owe it to him to make sure if he does have to do something to protect himself, the Wing Chun he tries to use doesn't fail him because he learned or practiced it incorrectly.

As for the comment about reputations not being important, I have to disagree. As a business professional in the IT/IS and martial arts world, reputation is important. Sometimes your reputation speaks for you when you can't. Also, a lot of people, companies, law enforcement, and the government, select or don't select companies and individuals because of their reputations or lack of.

In the 1990's, the US government selected my Sifu to help the U.S. Army update their close quarter hand to hand combat manuals. Learning stuff that our military personnel's lives may depend on when in the field of close quarter combat. And he was chosen first because of his reputation and then when they saw him, his skills. (See bio http://www.francisfongacademy.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=78)

Locally, I have had several of the county sheriff partrol officers come to me for training in Wing Chun because of my and the arts reputation. I have spoke to these officers on many occasions and they tell me about how they use the Wing Chun they've been trained in, in their jobs when dealing with criminals. Their lives depend on the training they get from the government and whatever or whomever they seek out for on their own training (mainly someone like me or other martial artists they may contact).

Many of my students have come to me because of my reputation as an instructor and practitioner in Wing Chun. I have been an instructor in Wing Chun for over 22 years, and my reputation is important to me. People know when they come to me for training, they will get the best training they can for their hard earned money. As a professional, I am concerned that what people learn from me will aid them when they have to use it.

Why do you chose to go to this company for service over that company? A lot of times it's because of reputation. Why do some people choose this martial art over that martial art when there are a number to choose from? A lot of times it's because they've heard of the reputation of this art over that art. After all this that I have stated, don't tell me reputation is not important and nobody cares. Yes they do.

You're right about nobody owning Wing Chun. But it is our duty as practitioners to teach it in the best way possible and pass it on correctly so that it won't disappear in the next few generations.

And as for auto mechanics, to be a professional mechanic (who cares about some backyard wrench turner. When you can't fix it, who do you go to, a professional), you have to have education and certification through authorized, accredited, certified, and recognized mechanic schools to work for a dealership or legitimate repair shops. If you aren't, your business won't last too long, especially in the U.S. You can be the best back yard mechanic, but with out certification, nobody with hire you or takes you serious.

I really enjoyed the depth to your answers and long may healthy disagreement continue on this forum.

I am assuming his motives for learning wing chun are to protect himself as they are mine. Him doing the first form and us lot analysing it will not protect him when it all kicks off. That was why I suggested he learn how to hit hard properly and in balance. When your Sifu taught at the military what did he teach them first? Quality combatives or forms. I am attempting to belittle the value of forms training, merely attempting to put them in context.

Pre-emption over all other tactics is the most significantly effective method of halting a situation. I know this is nigh on impossible to teach without training partners but something he should be aware of. If possible I recommend a book called Dead or Alive by Geoff Thompson. If there is a better book on self defense I have not yet seen it. No it is not a wing chun book but sound principles are sound principles no matter what the source.

Regarding reputation, I gladly disagree too. A reputation is just that. It is not cold hard fact, just opinions. As I have grown older I attach less importance to reputations as I prefer to judge with my own eyes. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding in my intentions when discussing reputations. I meant to say that people, us, you, me, should not care what others think. We need not spend our lung power or typing skills to convince others of the wonders of wing chun. Just let it be. Although I do agree that word of mouth can be a powerful advert. For me actions speak louder than reputations. As I am new to this forum my reputation in minor at best and I am sure that there are some readers who have less than polite thoughts about me. So be it. They are only words. I am not totally naive as I do know that in the martial arts reputations mean a lot. I am just suggesting we attach less importance to them.

Judging by the passion with which you all speak, there is no chance that wing chun will fade away in our lifetime or subsequent lifetimes. Quality lasts and people will naturally radiate towards quality material.

Apologies for using a crap analogy of the mechanic. I will endeavor to come up with a better one.

Paul

 

[tenzen]

The science of infighting is on youtube in 4 parts. Also the websit I directed you to previously would be of benefit to you. But I gotta stress that I do not agree with they way this is going down as some of the other members have also done.

Chainpunch he has said he just wants to learn wc because he somehow fell in love with it, its not so much that he wants to fight but he wants to learn the system. We all feel like he needs a qualified instructor but he is adamant about doing it this way until he can get to an instructor. His dedication is admirable.

Faisal by practicing on your own now even with our help your hurting yourself in the future. Its not our place to tell you what to do, but we have given a fair enough warning to what's going to happen. Some of us will try to help the best we can despite how we feel about it. All I have left to say now is good luck man.

And if none of this post makes sense, I don't care its late and I been drinking. So ill kick myself in the morning when I'm sober enough to know what the hell I just said.

 

[mook jong man]

Every so often i get a about half an hour in a sparsely populated workspace in front of the mirror ... i've actually done exactly that after reading your post earlier during work i remembered to check MT on my cellphone because about after half an hour of sitting idle my hand did a motion which resembled a hin sao i think .... so during the free time i get i've divided the form into parts though i dont know if they are correctly divided and also i kept evertyhing you said in mind before i started practicing the sil lim tao in the afternoon... one question though why is it always left firs then right?

I think you probably meant Huen Sau there , circle hand

It's always left first , then right , because most people are right handed and hence have greater coordination and power in the right arm .
The use of the left arm first redresses this imbalance so that both arms become equally skilled and coordinated and have equal power.

 

[mook jong man]

While practicing today at work during free time i actually made it a point not to close my fist during bong sau
the lsource of the videos i tried to reproduce my imperfect sil lim tao are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWDx4WiOipc&feature=channel_video_title

I found that ip man's sil lim tao was rather quick for the untrained eye and so i used the second one and first one in conjunction to see whether i could decipher the movements.

The first one is old Yip Man footage where the film looks sped up , the second one is garbage , a waste of bandwidth .

This is the problem you face trawling the internet for instructional footage , you have no frame of reference as to what good Wing Chun looks like so you can't separate the wheat from the chaff.

There is a lot of crap on the net being represented as Wing Chun , by people who have no business showing it to anyone let alone uploading it for the whole world to see.

Just be very careful in terms of the stuff you are looking at and copying off.

 

[Domino]

Good wing chun can be observed I think, just from the right people, watch it many times over and I think its just good you want to know in the first place.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

okay i practiced yesterday and today i overslept so i didnt go to work that being said i think i have about four hours or so of free time which i am going to use to further develop sil lim tao in three sections keeping in mind what you have said ... i shall have a video up tonight hopefully.

 

[Punchy]

Try to find a teaching video instead of simply following one off the internet. That way it will at least (hopefully) bring up key points

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

WOah did they make the sequel to the science of in fighting?
just got done watching taht ... i think thats a good teaching vid .... i feel like i have a better understanding of SLT now.

 

[wtxs]

WOah did they make the sequel to the science of in fighting?
just got done watching taht ... i think thats a good teaching vid .... i feel like i have a better understanding of SLT now.

As we had been saying, an good teacher is a MUST. :deadhorse You will not be able to achieve any useful level of understanding without first learn WC properly. Anyone can parrot most techniques and movements, but you will not understand fully the WHY or HOW they should be carry out and applied.

WC is an simple art stripped of fancy moves, easy to learn ... understand and be proficient will take an life time ... just be aware of those dreaded BAD HABITS.

 

[mook jong man]

WOah did they make the sequel to the science of in fighting?
just got done watching taht ... i think thats a good teaching vid .... i feel like i have a better understanding of SLT now.

I have never watched the video , but if it shows WSL doing the form in full and explains the main points of the stance , then that will do you until you find a live teacher .

You've found the good stuff , now stop looking around the internet and copying your moves off the self promoting "Neville Nobodies" that are perpetuating their crap through out the internetsphere.

 

[tenzen]

No faisal it was not completed. That is the only existing volume. Hopefully one of his top students will finish it. Gary lam is doing his own thing so I don't think he will do it. My guess would be david peterson, he is the one I would say is most likely to finish it, if it ever even happens. Either way both of those guys would be good resources for study materials. I think sifu peterson just wrote a book about wsl wc.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

@mook I've Been practicing ... i still don't think im all that good but hopefully i will continue to learn from the mistakes i make and i will post another vid , going back to the basics and redoing everything from scratch!!!

@tenzen ... sucha disappointment they didnt get to make a sequel to it though i heard that the same production company made another video

 

[shaolin_al]

haris I just thought of it and feel bad for your situation. There is a local sifu here who offers an international training program through videos and webcam which I think might be your best bet. Here is his website http://awcaonline.com/. I know its never a replacement for in person training but seems like your best option at this point