That was a big problem up here a few years ago...
Let's talk about fat people
- Thread starter Thesemindz
- Start date
That was a big problem up here a few years ago...
KempoGuy06
Grandmaster
Im fat (I think so, other people dont). 6'4" about 250lbs. not fast but with long legs i can cover short distances very quickly. I have a lot of endurance which surprises my skinny sparring partners a lot when we got hard. I also have a lot of strength and i use this to my advantage when rolling with people. My size, weight and strength make for a good combo. that being said, the people ive got with that are bigger and stronger i cant rely on that and have to use what little speed advantage over them that i have
B
B
I frequently spar (light to moderate contact point) with people who outweigh me by 50 or more pounds. From a point sparring standpoint, I find that bigger torsos are easier to score on (more target area; harder to block effectively). Opponents who are actually fat (as opposed to just being big--I regularly spar a woman who's close to 6 feet and sturdy, but not fat) tend not to be able to get their kicks up, so they go for the groin a lot, and some of them have really developed their punching skills to make up for that, too.
I'm not fast (being kinda old and kinda rickety), so I don't have that advantage, and a heavier opponent can really put some power behind a punch or low kick. So I try to wait for an attack and kick them as they come in. Bigger opponents who can kick to the head or upper body are harder to deal with since they are stronger and harder to block--if you don't get the angle right, their kicks and strikes can push right past a block that would deflect a technique coming from a weaker opponent.
I realize this doesn't speak to the OP, since it was more about self defense, but thought it might be of interest.
I'm not fast (being kinda old and kinda rickety), so I don't have that advantage, and a heavier opponent can really put some power behind a punch or low kick. So I try to wait for an attack and kick them as they come in. Bigger opponents who can kick to the head or upper body are harder to deal with since they are stronger and harder to block--if you don't get the angle right, their kicks and strikes can push right past a block that would deflect a technique coming from a weaker opponent.
I realize this doesn't speak to the OP, since it was more about self defense, but thought it might be of interest.
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BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
I'm a big fella. I'm 6'1", 280lbs...(down from 323 lbs on Jan 1st, thank you), and I know how to use every ounce.
Bill's post is honestly how I think of things too. I'm actually pretty darn fast to be my size, but it's mostly because I'm a person with a large structure.
What everyone so far has said about defining what fat is is spot on. I'm not morbidly obese, but I still need to lose quite a few pounds. I have no trouble running up and down stairs.
Without giving too much away about myself here, I can tell you that leg attacks are not going to affect me much, even to the knee, unless you have tree trunk legs or have an actual weapon. Attacks to my midsection are the same way.
Everyone is made the same, regardless of size. Sometimes leg attacks work, sometimes joint attacks work, but throat, eye, and ear attacks always work. The fattest man in the world, even with 7 chins, can't take a well placed chop to the throat. Nor could he stand to have his eyes raked or ears popped.
Fighting a fat person is just the same as fighting anyone else. Your technique is not going to be the same from fighter to fighter, even if they all weigh the same. Their size is just a part of the equation. Adapt and fight a smart fight.
To Omar:
I generally tend to agree with alot of your posts, but the whole fatty post you made really disappointed me. I realize that this really isn't going to make a difference in your life one way or another that I've been disappointed in your post, but consider this:
You may be skinny now, but you may not always stay that way. Then again, you may just stay skinny. But you may one day have to lump yourself in with the group that you badmouth so freely here, so you may want to rethink some of your thought processes.
Try to respect everyone, regardless of size. After all, I still respect you, even though your posts on this thread teeter on the brink of being moronic.
Bill's post is honestly how I think of things too. I'm actually pretty darn fast to be my size, but it's mostly because I'm a person with a large structure.
What everyone so far has said about defining what fat is is spot on. I'm not morbidly obese, but I still need to lose quite a few pounds. I have no trouble running up and down stairs.
Without giving too much away about myself here, I can tell you that leg attacks are not going to affect me much, even to the knee, unless you have tree trunk legs or have an actual weapon. Attacks to my midsection are the same way.
Everyone is made the same, regardless of size. Sometimes leg attacks work, sometimes joint attacks work, but throat, eye, and ear attacks always work. The fattest man in the world, even with 7 chins, can't take a well placed chop to the throat. Nor could he stand to have his eyes raked or ears popped.
Fighting a fat person is just the same as fighting anyone else. Your technique is not going to be the same from fighter to fighter, even if they all weigh the same. Their size is just a part of the equation. Adapt and fight a smart fight.
To Omar:
I generally tend to agree with alot of your posts, but the whole fatty post you made really disappointed me. I realize that this really isn't going to make a difference in your life one way or another that I've been disappointed in your post, but consider this:
You may be skinny now, but you may not always stay that way. Then again, you may just stay skinny. But you may one day have to lump yourself in with the group that you badmouth so freely here, so you may want to rethink some of your thought processes.
Try to respect everyone, regardless of size. After all, I still respect you, even though your posts on this thread teeter on the brink of being moronic.
I know a number of photographers who photograph "less than Barbie" types. They do great work, and in most cases the shots are done quite well. Mind you, these aren't hobbyists, but published, respected expert professionals. Leonard Nimoy also did his own take, the Full Figure Project. I've chatted with one of the gals he shot, she's a sweetheart. So, while being over weight can be something that one finds unappealing, just because someone is overweight, it doesn't make them stupid. Hell, the one cashier I had at Wendy's was the living embodiment of "Fat Albert" (yeah, black, red shirt, even did a hey hey hey.) He was the one who got my order perfect btw. The little hottie I ran in to next time had left her braincell in the car that day.
But I don't think this is the place to discuss that. This is in the Self Defense area.
Health and Beauty aspects are probably best discussed in the Health area.
So, lets discuss Self Defense.
Larger people tend to move slower, react slower, and have to move farther to avoid an attack.
They can however bring more "backup mass", hit harder, and often absorb a bit more punishment due to a larger body mass.
Endurance, is a toss up. A sumo can have great endurance. "Team FatGuy" probably not.
But I don't think this is the place to discuss that. This is in the Self Defense area.
Health and Beauty aspects are probably best discussed in the Health area.
So, lets discuss Self Defense.
Larger people tend to move slower, react slower, and have to move farther to avoid an attack.
They can however bring more "backup mass", hit harder, and often absorb a bit more punishment due to a larger body mass.
Endurance, is a toss up. A sumo can have great endurance. "Team FatGuy" probably not.
searcher
Senior Master
I don't know Bob, I have seen some Sumo that were flat out fast. The rate that they exploded off the line was insane, even if they were not that size. Then take into account that they are huge and you have a crazy, machine of destruction.
If you truly want to know how to fight a very large "fat" guy, then watch the UFC that had Keith Hackney fighting Emanual Yarburough. He won the match, but brokehis hand in the process.
If you truly want to know how to fight a very large "fat" guy, then watch the UFC that had Keith Hackney fighting Emanual Yarburough. He won the match, but brokehis hand in the process.
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I said tend to. Sumo are trained athletes, and work on developing that. The average Bears or Bills fan however...... 
Archangel M
Senior Master
Sumo bouts last a matter of seconds. Sumo athletes are surprisingly flexible, powerful and agile. Their endurance beyond the 30 sec mark is questionable IMO.
So HE is the one that said "I'll moida da bum"! Thanks for that :asian:
But back on topic.
For many of us (women), we have to take for granted that an attacker is going to be larger and heavier than we are. Now whether that person is heavier than we are because of their musculature or whether they are heavier because of their adiposity (or some combination of the two) almost doesn't matter. The laws of physics are not going to be working in my favor.
I would focus on staying off their centerline and getting behind the person. One can't hit what one can't see.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
I said tend to. Sumo are trained athletes, and work on developing that. The average Bears or Bills fan however......
The problem is that it's still a generalization. It's been my experience that the average Bears or Bills fan played football at one time in their life, and were in good enough shape to play...and while they may look like the probably shouldn't eat the nachos with extra chilli and cheese they just bought from the concession stand, I'd be willing to wager that if you took those nachos from them, you'd pay dearly, no matter how skilled of an athlete you were.
It goes back to the basic rule of combat, that even Sun Tzu listed in "The Art of War"...
Never underestimate your opponent.
If you happen to fight a person who is overweight or just plain out fat, then adjust the same way you would if you fought more than one opponent, or an opponent that is considerably faster than you.
To look at me, you would think that I'm slow too...but I have always been fast for my size, before I ever stepped foot in a dojang.
Archangel M
Senior Master
In the same way never underestimate the "little guy' either. In the long run though its my opinion that a leaner (lean doesn't mean skinny) person is fitter, healthier and has an athletic advantage over the "fatter" person. In the "battle of life" your health is far more important than your martial abilities.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
Exactly. That's where I was going with that. Anyone can be a threat in a fight situation, no matter what size, shape, or how fast or slow they are.
Just be prepared.
Just be prepared.
Happiness matters too. I don't like broccoli and never will. I won't eat it. Not even for an extra decade. And the same goes for all broccoli's evil green cousins. That's not food, that's what food eats. I like my food to have had a face on it.
blindsage
Master of Arts
Back when I was younger and skinnier and was training in Kyokushinkai there was this very overweight brown belt that helped teach some of the classes. He wasn't very tall, maybe 5' 7", and he was round, not just a little overweight, but very round. He wasn't fast, and he was strong but not especially so, but what he had going for him was skill. His defensive skills were phenomenal, practically impossible to get through, even for much faster and/or stronger guys. He was truly impressive.
On another note. I'm a bigger guy now, 6' 240lbs. and working on getting back into shape. But even being out of shape I'm solid all around, just with extra around the middle. Strong legs, strong abs, and weight is distributed very proportianally. And I'm still fast. I've always been fast on hand an foot technique, and I just started playing soccer again to have some cardio and some of my teammates were suprised that I could keep up with the other team's forwards while I was playing defense.
Now, I'm seriously (no, seriously) not saying this to say I'm a badass or anything, but both comments are to reinforce the point made by a couple others, not to underestimate your opponent because they're overweight, or appear out of shape.
On another note. I'm a bigger guy now, 6' 240lbs. and working on getting back into shape. But even being out of shape I'm solid all around, just with extra around the middle. Strong legs, strong abs, and weight is distributed very proportianally. And I'm still fast. I've always been fast on hand an foot technique, and I just started playing soccer again to have some cardio and some of my teammates were suprised that I could keep up with the other team's forwards while I was playing defense.
Now, I'm seriously (no, seriously) not saying this to say I'm a badass or anything, but both comments are to reinforce the point made by a couple others, not to underestimate your opponent because they're overweight, or appear out of shape.
I will only speak for myself, I am 5'9" tall and I wiegh about 240 right now and in a fight I am quick ask those that have been sparring against me. The bad news is I cannot go forever like some smaller type but the problem is can the smaller type take all the mass I put behind each technique, if they cannot then it is game over if they can then I would be in a little trouble. So big people can move just not a marathon.
Thats nice...typed my reply and lost it. Lets try again...
I'm thinking back to an early UFC with Marco Ruas and Paul Varelans. Ruas chopped away at Pauls leg and eventually wore him down enough to the point where Paul fell to the mat. I think that regardless of the conditioning of the leg, it'll eventually wear the person down. As far as the knee goes...well, any time thats discussed, it usually ends up in a debate as to whether or not it'll actually work. However, I'm not going to discard either spot. I think that many times, people look for the one shot, and I'm personally not a fan of that mentality. Not saying it can't happen, but I'm not always banking on it.
I like to look at a target as a setup for my next shot, followed by the next shot, followed by the next, and so on.
I'm thinking back to an early UFC with Marco Ruas and Paul Varelans. Ruas chopped away at Pauls leg and eventually wore him down enough to the point where Paul fell to the mat. I think that regardless of the conditioning of the leg, it'll eventually wear the person down. As far as the knee goes...well, any time thats discussed, it usually ends up in a debate as to whether or not it'll actually work. However, I'm not going to discard either spot. I think that many times, people look for the one shot, and I'm personally not a fan of that mentality. Not saying it can't happen, but I'm not always banking on it.
I like to look at a target as a setup for my next shot, followed by the next shot, followed by the next, and so on.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
Just to clarify, I'm certainly not discrediting leg shots as being effective. I will say that even the skinniest guy on the planet can chop away at my legs and they will eventually get tired of being kicked.
But that would mean that I allowed it to happen. My goal in a fight is to put the other guy out of commission before he can inflict enough physical harm to me that I won't be able to continue.
If someone were to kick me in the leg once, then score a point for them, they started on their game plan. If they kick me in the leg twice, well, they may have been able to sneak that one in. More than twice in a real fight situation, then I deserve the beating that I'm about to receive.
I agree that one shot leg kicks aren't a realistic solution, and that it takes time to wear down the legs, especially on someone larger than you. Your goal is the same as my goal in a fight...it all comes down to conditioning and skill on the part of both opponents, among other variable aspects. That's the beauty of fighting...it's truly unpredictable. Sometimes the outcome may be obvious, but most of the time, reaching the outcome has a few surpises in store.
Regarding the lifestyle thing Bill Mattocks is talking about...he's right and has a point...if he's fine with being larger, then that's up to him.
I can tell you this, though...I was the same way a year ago. I didn't care about losing weight. I was fine being 320+ lbs, and I wasn't going to sacrifice my pleasure of eating what I wanted just to suit what someone tells me I should eat. That all changed, though, when I discovered I was going to be a father, and I decided I wanted to be able to keep up with my girls when they get to the age that they can run around.
I started losing weight on Jan 1, and I haven't looked back. I can honestly say that I feel better all around. I wish I could say I looked better, but losing weight only gets you so far in that department...haha...
But the point is that there's a difference in how I felt then and now. My attitude still hasn't changed, because I accept who I am, and I'm proud of who I am. But I also accept that I have to change part of who I am, at least so I can provide a better life for my daughters. I've found that I'm much happier now than I was a year ago, and I attribute it greatly to losing the weight I've lost. I'm able to do more that I like to do, and I have made sacrifices that I can live with regarding food.
I'm not preaching, and I hope that's not how this post comes across...nor am I bragging...I'm just trying to play devil's advocate on both sides, I guess. Just take a look at what makes you happy, and try to decide how long it's going to make you happy. I, myself, would prefer to stay happy for as long as I possibly can.
But that would mean that I allowed it to happen. My goal in a fight is to put the other guy out of commission before he can inflict enough physical harm to me that I won't be able to continue.
If someone were to kick me in the leg once, then score a point for them, they started on their game plan. If they kick me in the leg twice, well, they may have been able to sneak that one in. More than twice in a real fight situation, then I deserve the beating that I'm about to receive.
I agree that one shot leg kicks aren't a realistic solution, and that it takes time to wear down the legs, especially on someone larger than you. Your goal is the same as my goal in a fight...it all comes down to conditioning and skill on the part of both opponents, among other variable aspects. That's the beauty of fighting...it's truly unpredictable. Sometimes the outcome may be obvious, but most of the time, reaching the outcome has a few surpises in store.
Regarding the lifestyle thing Bill Mattocks is talking about...he's right and has a point...if he's fine with being larger, then that's up to him.
I can tell you this, though...I was the same way a year ago. I didn't care about losing weight. I was fine being 320+ lbs, and I wasn't going to sacrifice my pleasure of eating what I wanted just to suit what someone tells me I should eat. That all changed, though, when I discovered I was going to be a father, and I decided I wanted to be able to keep up with my girls when they get to the age that they can run around.
I started losing weight on Jan 1, and I haven't looked back. I can honestly say that I feel better all around. I wish I could say I looked better, but losing weight only gets you so far in that department...haha...
But the point is that there's a difference in how I felt then and now. My attitude still hasn't changed, because I accept who I am, and I'm proud of who I am. But I also accept that I have to change part of who I am, at least so I can provide a better life for my daughters. I've found that I'm much happier now than I was a year ago, and I attribute it greatly to losing the weight I've lost. I'm able to do more that I like to do, and I have made sacrifices that I can live with regarding food.
I'm not preaching, and I hope that's not how this post comes across...nor am I bragging...I'm just trying to play devil's advocate on both sides, I guess. Just take a look at what makes you happy, and try to decide how long it's going to make you happy. I, myself, would prefer to stay happy for as long as I possibly can.
