Lets jettison the insane asylum!
- Thread starter The Last Legionary
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pgsmith
Master of Arts
It is not so much that we are divided on issues as it is the fact that Americans as a whole are being trained to let others think for them. Every petty dictator the world over knows that the easiest way to ensure that the people support you is to give them an outside enemy to focus on. That's exactly what our leadership does, create divisiveness in order to focus people on 'the enemy' to keep them from thinking about what a bad job that leadership is doing. It's not even just the political leadership that's doing that, it has become the defacto rule of leadership in all things in the U.S. Even the internet has ceased to be the opener of minds that it once was, and is now some place for like-minded people to huddle together and talk bad about other groups and other ways of living/thinking.
Oops, sorry about the off-topic rant. It's one of my soap box topics.
That was way more information than I needed there Bob!
Some people in asylums don't.
Tgace
Grandmaster
Only one point he got WRONG
Bill and billie are not the same person, even if elder is going to capitalize the name from now on....
Bill is the guy with the original thought.
Ya know what...if the guy is breaking the rules take appropriate measures. This constant stream of personal shots at the guy...to include threads devoted to razzing him is juvenile and almost a sort of bullying. Can you not simply ignore him?
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????
"Threads devoted to razzing him?" Where?
I mean-personal shots-maybe. Of this I'm guilty, sure. Tryin' not to. Kinda hard for me when dealing with the factually challenged, but ok.
"Threads devoted to razzing him," though? Never.
Tgace
Grandmaster
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105100
Billie
Maybe not blatant "razz", but there's certainly a flavor of piling on starting around here.
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I post facts. The group listed may not like the facts I post but I always cite sources, and I "copy and Paste," to make it easier to see where I found my facts.
When I post on national socialists, I originally just stated what I read, people said I didn't know what I was talking about. I then "copy and pasted from Jonah Goldberg, Thomas Sowell, Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich von Hayek, and several other economists and others in various fields who supported the fact that German national socialists were in fact national "socialists." Then the goal post was moved. I was told the nobel prize winning economist and the other PH.D in economics the Ph.D in political science and the Master in behavioral science didn't know what they were talking about because 1) the econonmists come from the Austrian School, and 2) anyone can get a Ph.D.
On manmade global warming. I agree, that the earth warms and cools, in fact I have pointed out that I live where a mile high glacier used to be. I am then told that all the scientists agree the earth is warming and all the "real" scientisits agree. I "copy and paste" evidence that the report that all the "real" scientists use to make their judgement on the issue was written by "scientists," who destroyed data, tried to destroy the reputations and careers of scientists who disagreed with them, tried to get journalists and editors from the leading scientific journals fired...and everyone ignores it. They say these guys were cleared. I "copy and paste," the fact that Mann was cleared by the same guy who cleared Jerry Sandusky of the child abuse allegations at Penn state and that the british version of the investigation also cleared their guys without looking at the evidence.
I also point out the fact that the computer models used to predict future global warming can't predict current climate when the information for current climate is punched in. And yet I don't have facts. I "Cut and Paste," to point out that the guy in the I.P.C.C report that covers glaciers melting lied...for money...and was caught doing it. I "copy and Paste," an article that shows Green Peace faked a photo of melting glaciers in Norway, and I am told I don't argue from facts.
I am told the Island of Tuvalu is sinking into the ocean because of the melting of the glaciers. I "copy and paste" an article that points out that the old measuring equipment used at Tuvalu was not accurate. When new equipment, modern measuring devices, were deployed...they showed no sinking. But my facts aren't fact.
I "cut and paste," articles about the temperature measuring stations that aren't properly placed, the stations in Russia, in the coldest parts of Russia, that are ignored when computing global temperatures, and I am told my facts aren't facts.
I copy and paste because I cite sources. Sources from people who have actually done the research that develop "my" facts. Then I am told that doesn't count.
I post what I post the way I post to add to the "discussion," using facts.
I support the use of waterboarding against limited terrorist leadership members who are chosen because of the value of their information. I am called all sorts of names and have my "warrior ethics, " challenged. I "Copy and paste" articles about 4 former vietnam prisoners of war who were tortured by the international socialists, the communists in North vietnam, two of who were awarded congressional medals of honor, who were there with John Mccain and suffered the same torture he suffered. They all 4 support the use of waterboarding on terrorists, in limited circumstances, to save innocent lives. They also differentiate real torture, which they suffered and detail in those "copy and pasted," articles from waterboarding which they all acknowleged they had experienced and did not consider torture. 4 former P.O.W's who were actually tortured by the communists, not me, them.
So please. I have facts as well, I cite my facts with sources to support my facts, and will not be brow beaten into ignoring those facts.
If you don't like the way the "discussion" is handled in the study, then either start your own threads, which all of you are capable of, or don't read or participate in mine. You are all welcome to post there, just stop your B******g and choose one or the other. I am polite, in the face of personal jabs and attacks, and I actually follow the rules, which some here actually try to skirt or who have broken them, and yet I still welcome them to post. Get over yourselves, and grow up.
CBS cares. (Craig Ferguson, late night talk show host)
When I post on national socialists, I originally just stated what I read, people said I didn't know what I was talking about. I then "copy and pasted from Jonah Goldberg, Thomas Sowell, Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich von Hayek, and several other economists and others in various fields who supported the fact that German national socialists were in fact national "socialists." Then the goal post was moved. I was told the nobel prize winning economist and the other PH.D in economics the Ph.D in political science and the Master in behavioral science didn't know what they were talking about because 1) the econonmists come from the Austrian School, and 2) anyone can get a Ph.D.
On manmade global warming. I agree, that the earth warms and cools, in fact I have pointed out that I live where a mile high glacier used to be. I am then told that all the scientists agree the earth is warming and all the "real" scientisits agree. I "copy and paste" evidence that the report that all the "real" scientists use to make their judgement on the issue was written by "scientists," who destroyed data, tried to destroy the reputations and careers of scientists who disagreed with them, tried to get journalists and editors from the leading scientific journals fired...and everyone ignores it. They say these guys were cleared. I "copy and paste," the fact that Mann was cleared by the same guy who cleared Jerry Sandusky of the child abuse allegations at Penn state and that the british version of the investigation also cleared their guys without looking at the evidence.
I also point out the fact that the computer models used to predict future global warming can't predict current climate when the information for current climate is punched in. And yet I don't have facts. I "Cut and Paste," to point out that the guy in the I.P.C.C report that covers glaciers melting lied...for money...and was caught doing it. I "copy and Paste," an article that shows Green Peace faked a photo of melting glaciers in Norway, and I am told I don't argue from facts.
I am told the Island of Tuvalu is sinking into the ocean because of the melting of the glaciers. I "copy and paste" an article that points out that the old measuring equipment used at Tuvalu was not accurate. When new equipment, modern measuring devices, were deployed...they showed no sinking. But my facts aren't fact.
I "cut and paste," articles about the temperature measuring stations that aren't properly placed, the stations in Russia, in the coldest parts of Russia, that are ignored when computing global temperatures, and I am told my facts aren't facts.
I copy and paste because I cite sources. Sources from people who have actually done the research that develop "my" facts. Then I am told that doesn't count.
I post what I post the way I post to add to the "discussion," using facts.
I support the use of waterboarding against limited terrorist leadership members who are chosen because of the value of their information. I am called all sorts of names and have my "warrior ethics, " challenged. I "Copy and paste" articles about 4 former vietnam prisoners of war who were tortured by the international socialists, the communists in North vietnam, two of who were awarded congressional medals of honor, who were there with John Mccain and suffered the same torture he suffered. They all 4 support the use of waterboarding on terrorists, in limited circumstances, to save innocent lives. They also differentiate real torture, which they suffered and detail in those "copy and pasted," articles from waterboarding which they all acknowleged they had experienced and did not consider torture. 4 former P.O.W's who were actually tortured by the communists, not me, them.
So please. I have facts as well, I cite my facts with sources to support my facts, and will not be brow beaten into ignoring those facts.
If you don't like the way the "discussion" is handled in the study, then either start your own threads, which all of you are capable of, or don't read or participate in mine. You are all welcome to post there, just stop your B******g and choose one or the other. I am polite, in the face of personal jabs and attacks, and I actually follow the rules, which some here actually try to skirt or who have broken them, and yet I still welcome them to post. Get over yourselves, and grow up.
CBS cares. (Craig Ferguson, late night talk show host)
I don't know anything about that.
I do know that there's some history here-history that precedes your return to MT, but I'm just gonna let that go.
I am going to point out that the perennial "Junk the Study" thread finally comes along, and Billy takes it personally-thinks it's about him, when we've had that thread here several times.
You should consider that, before you start thinking of him as being picked on.....
I'm going to ignore most of your diatribe, and simply point out that someone who "post
I don't think it ought to be closed, but I really DO think it should be renamed the Cesspool, and that access should be limited to those who are active in the MA forums as well. This IS a martial arts site, after all.
Yes, for all you lovely people, I scroll down the martial arts topics each time before I end up in the Study. I practice the FMA and there is little or no real activity in that Forum. I also look at any sword related Forums and threads, again, nothing going on. I have a Nidan in Kenpo, not much going on there either. Yeah, not interested in what carry knife you are carrying either. Not into MMA, results in brain cell damage due to repeated choking out and blows to the head. Hey, that might be an interesting thread, why don't one of you go there and post "facts" about it. I recently posted in the library and I also post on the rec room, so maybe if you wonderful people would start more interesting posts in the martial arts Forums, I might have more things to post over there...oh yeah, your too busy being offended in the study. Very mature. You guys do realize that there are over a hundred threads in the martial arts side. You have to actively seek out the study, click on it, look for my posts, or whoever you guys want to B**** about that day, decide to click on that thread, click on it and then read it. Wow, that is a lot of purposeful activity for a bunch of adults to engage in in a place they B**** about all the time. Once again, if you like the martial arts threads, post there. You never have to even see the study, let alone my threads that you all complain about but can't seem to stop yourselves from going to. Are you sure you are adults?
Your post on the Sword arts Dirty Dog...
Doesn't exactly enliven the thread does it? Perhaps you could post more and make it more interesting...oh that's right, you're too busy complaining about the study...
Your post on the Sword arts Dirty Dog...
Doesn't exactly enliven the thread does it? Perhaps you could post more and make it more interesting...oh that's right, you're too busy complaining about the study...
Someone presented me with a solution to my headache a little bit ago that I;ll be discussing with them shortly.
This is a martial arts site. When someone hits 'new' and 9/10 posts are political, and mostly what could be considered 'biased/extreme', it can give people an incorrect view of the site. This is not a shot at Bill...I've been guilty of going on passionate tears myself, and had to reign myself back to focus attention on the core.
I no longer do any martial arts. That makes it hard for me to participate in those areas. If everyone active in the study made a few posts a week in the art areas, we'd rapidly triple our activity there.
The bickering in this thread is an example of the problem with the area. It's not supposed to be a NHB free for all, but someplace to focus intently on a topic. That means tangents go in a new thread. That means attack facts not people. My view was of someplace educational, and maybe scholastic. What we have is a Roman Senate, and I'm feeling a right bit like Julius.
You have the Ignore option, you can do specific searches, and so forth. I'm just, tired, of it all at this point. So if the discussion goes well, I'll be divesting myself of the headache, in a manner, shortly. How that'll effect MT, will be announced soon.
This is a martial arts site. When someone hits 'new' and 9/10 posts are political, and mostly what could be considered 'biased/extreme', it can give people an incorrect view of the site. This is not a shot at Bill...I've been guilty of going on passionate tears myself, and had to reign myself back to focus attention on the core.
I no longer do any martial arts. That makes it hard for me to participate in those areas. If everyone active in the study made a few posts a week in the art areas, we'd rapidly triple our activity there.
The bickering in this thread is an example of the problem with the area. It's not supposed to be a NHB free for all, but someplace to focus intently on a topic. That means tangents go in a new thread. That means attack facts not people. My view was of someplace educational, and maybe scholastic. What we have is a Roman Senate, and I'm feeling a right bit like Julius.
You have the Ignore option, you can do specific searches, and so forth. I'm just, tired, of it all at this point. So if the discussion goes well, I'll be divesting myself of the headache, in a manner, shortly. How that'll effect MT, will be announced soon.
TLDR.
My experience, going way back to Usenet, is that you need a way to let people vent about these things. It's better to section off an area and warn normal people away from it than to see these arguments busting out all over the site...which they will. (That's why The Study is here, in part.) People won't go to the other site because they know the audience of people won't follow them and their insights won't be read--they'll go to bed yet someone will still be wrong on the Internet.
It's nice to be able to chat politics with those who get your martial arts analogies--as I like chatting politics with colleagues who get my math. analogies in another setting. But yeah, it's kind of nuts here. Unless you're prepared to simply suspend people who won't play nice, this is what you'll get.
Keeping it here is the least bad option, IMO.
My experience, going way back to Usenet, is that you need a way to let people vent about these things. It's better to section off an area and warn normal people away from it than to see these arguments busting out all over the site...which they will. (That's why The Study is here, in part.) People won't go to the other site because they know the audience of people won't follow them and their insights won't be read--they'll go to bed yet someone will still be wrong on the Internet.
It's nice to be able to chat politics with those who get your martial arts analogies--as I like chatting politics with colleagues who get my math. analogies in another setting. But yeah, it's kind of nuts here. Unless you're prepared to simply suspend people who won't play nice, this is what you'll get.
Keeping it here is the least bad option, IMO.
Tgace
Grandmaster
Its not a question of if its "deserved" its an issue of people stomping around in the pig pen then blaming the pig for the mud on their shoes. Either you jump in knowing the consequences or you stay outside the gate.
If you are participating in a thread you are part of the problem yourself.
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Omar B
Senior Master
The very reason I hardly post anymore. It's no longer a MA site. It's some weirdo forum where they bible thumpers and other flavors of nut job come to start a million threads in the study.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
Well, for the most part I do.
But for personal reasons and not because I dislike the guy.
With a very few exceptions - and I mean very few - he does not hurt a fly.
but the stuff he posts is for the most part bias the least, untrue at worst.
Bias I skip, because you can't argue with that.
Truth is another, especially when it pertains to Adolf the Unnecessary.
Yes I do pick on him. I don't dislike him. If I did...well, I'd be ugly and probably banned.
Yes, I have lost my cool before and gotten my warnings.
I think I have cut and pasted a set of rule from a forum I am actually moderating (well, i should be but hey...) especially set for the heavy hitters in the debate field. By teenagers no less.
According to those rules billie would have gotten a few disappointed looks from the staff a long time ago.
Why?
Because it's not a debate.
Dem's = bad is not an argument.
A link is not an argument. Nor is an excerpt of an article.
Considering we are all adults here...I think that set of rules put together by a bunch of kids is impressive!
And yes, those guys would have been running circles around billie!
And Bill on some subjects. (Gosh I miss them...)
Well, that's it, Billy-no, you don't. An example:
The facts are in the images I posted elsewhere-images of people walking the streets of Tuvalu shin deep in water where there wasn't any before. The fact is that there is sea water in their cisterns, where there wasn't any before. The fact is that they are preparing to evacuate the islands at some point in the near future-for Australia, or New Zealand or Indonesia, or some combination thereof, because they realize their home will become uninhabitable.
As for "scientific instruments," and their accuracy. Well, as you know, I have a boat. I can use the GPS to figure out where I am and chart a course where I'm going-that's the new way, and it'll get me there. I was raised on LORAN C beacons, though, and most of them are still in operation (look 'em up) and I can use those to get where I'm going. I was also raised on a chronograph and sextant-I can use the time of day, sighting on a star, an ephemeris and charts, to determine where I am, and where I'm going. Any of these ways will get me there, with a varying degree of accuracy-GPS within 30 feet, and sextant to where I can see my destination and make my way there, usually.
Put another way: I've been going to the doctor for at least once a quarter all of my life. They take the same numbers they always have: blood pressure, weight, etc.-it's all digital now, of course, but an old fashioned sphygnanometer will get your blood pressure fairly accurately, if you can count. I go to the doctor, a nurse sticks a digital thermometer in my ear, and it beeps and gives her my body temp. almost instantly.......
....but if I took an old-fashioned anal thermometer, and shoved it up your ***, it'd probably read 98.6F just as accurately after a couple of uncomfortable minutes....:lfao:
What I'm saying is, sure, "the instruments used were outdated, and newer ones showed the island wasn't sinking" may be a fact, but doesn't have nearly the meanings of the rising water level and salt water in cisterns. Btw, the islands aren't "sinking," the water around them is rising-another fact that allows those who'd deny climate change to spin things-of course the islands aren't sinking who ever said they were? :lfao:
So, no, Billy, all too often, your facts haven't been facts at all-Nazis, global warming, Thanksgiving, economics (btw, one of your go to guys, the one Ryan admires so much, Hayek? He thought everyone should get a salary from the government-that's a fact-look it up; and if it's not "socialism," I don't know what is....:lfao: ) you name it, and odds are you're factually challenged-and I really didn't want to do this in this thread (because, even if it feels like it is, this thread isn't about you-the frustration with the Study crops up every two years or so, election or not, but moreso in election years) but you went there, so I'm calling you on it.
No, Billy, your facts aren't always facts at all.....all too often, they're just spin pieces from partisan webpages. We've seen you tell relatives of concentration camp survivors the true nature of Nazism, and we've seen you tell me-quite insultingly and heavy handedly-about the nature of my ancestors (as if I, who gut-shot a coyote just so I could savor its screams while having my coffee, didn't know all about the strain of utter cruelty and depravity that runs through my blood-as though I even needed reminding from a Slovak about such things) and, frankly, it's all very insulting, condescending, and just downright erroneous-if not deliberately fallacious. In another thread, you've managed to convince yourself (and, trust me, no one else at all) that there was no "southern strategy" in American politics, and that the Democrats have been and will always be the "party of racism," and that the Republicans are the "party of equality," and all that's right and just with the world, and, frankly, Billy, that's just plain out to lunch-as in, down the road, around the corner where the busses don't go anymore nuckin' futz. 'M'kay? Trust me, if there's one thing I know, what with the rampant Native American bloodlust coursing through my veins, it's 'nuckin' futz. :lfao:
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
shhhh
think about your apology!
(no wait, that was about the inappropriateness of your responses to him....
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