Let's examine a statement

Nolerama,
I am still waiting for an apology for your blatant ad hom attack. I doubt I will get one though.

i am sure the senegalese do have some nifty buildings. NOW. What did they have before the europeans started landing thier ships there?

hmm?

BTW-Ethiopia? no really sub-saharan for one thing, and as a coastal area, was exposed to technology from traders from the middle east. Doesnt really count for what i was talking about, but I guess "anything to prove this mean guy wrong" is ok ....................

YOU say I dont use facts, well, buddy, YOU bring in examples that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. We are talking apples and you are over there yapping about oranges. If that sounds "mean" well, as you say "it'll heal in time."


Thats it, I am out, you people can call me whatever names you want to, I dont care. I made a statement, and it pretty much stands.

The site in Zimbabwie is interesting tho, I do want to read up on that.

 
Sukerkin said:
Gentlemen, in any debate it is perfectly acceptable and free of blame to admit you don't know something or concede you had a misconception.
Click to expand...

This is the Internet, sir, and I will not stand for this vile calumny! We are all indisputably correct at all times, in all ways, forever and ever more! I say Good Day to you, sir! ;)
 
Empty Hands said:
This is the Internet, sir, and I will not stand for this vile calumny! We are all indisputably correct at all times, in all ways, forever and ever more! I say Good Day to you, sir! ;)
Click to expand...


dont forget EH, on the internet the guys are all 6'4 and tough and the ladies? they are all HAWT
 
Twin Fist said:
Nolerama,
I am still waiting for an apology for your blatant ad hom attack. I doubt I will get one though.

i am sure the senegalese do have some nifty buildings. NOW. What did they have before the europeans started landing thier ships there?

hmm?

BTW-Ethiopia? no really sub-saharan for one thing, and as a coastal area, was exposed to technology from traders from the middle east. Doesnt really count for what i was talking about, but I guess "anything to prove this mean guy wrong" is ok ....................

YOU say I dont use facts, well, buddy, YOU bring in examples that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. We are talking apples and you are over there yapping about oranges. If that sounds "mean" well, as you say "it'll heal in time."


Thats it, I am out, you people can call me whatever names you want to, I dont care. I made a statement, and it pretty much stands.

The site in Zimbabwie is interesting tho, I do want to read up on that.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I can't read minds. And I never insulted you, just stated a fact. I hope you read this and talk your way out of it again.

That's your reality.
 
Twin Fist said:
Xue,
Dont forget the cliff dwellings built in the american southwest. And no, a building doesnt have to stand for 5000 years to be considered permenent.

But wait, you are just being argumentative.......no offense, but i am not interested in getting into a flame war, or a nick pick fight.
Click to expand...

But I am not being argumentative, and I do not want a flame war, it is nice way to avoid everything I posted however to accuse me of trying to do that.

I am pointing out those societies that by your definition are advanced. And some of those are long since dead and some of those are, believe it or not, African.

You see my take on this is you have some knowledge of a few African tribes not all. And I am no expert either but I do know they are or were, by the definition you provided advanced. Africa is a big place that is made up of many different peoples.

As to permanent that would be subjective then depending on how many years something has to stand to be called permanent.

And by your definition the Aztecs were advanced but yet they were big on human sacrifice which, “IMO”, that is not all that advanced.

So my point is that I am sorry but your definition does not work for me. That is unless you can point to some reputable scientific or archeological study that supports it.
 
Xue,
it's ok. I dont need for you to agree.
I may well be wrong.
I didnt know about the ruins at Zimbabwie for example
but it is just my opinion.
 
Twin Fist said:
Xue,


Elder, that picture you posted? They dont know who built it. The design shows both local and non-local elements. Local legend isnt clear on the issue. It is damned impressive, Thats for sure, and it makes sense to build a trading post over a gold mine. I had never heard of that site before, but it is very cool. It is certainly unique in the area. I am gonna read up on that site. It is very interesting.

as for the Zulu spear, it isnt sub-saharan in origin, but from the Berber region. Apparently though, iron working in sub-saharan african people goes back to about 1000 BC, which i didnt know. makes sense tho.
Click to expand...

There's a town in New Mexico called Aztec. It's very near Chaco Canyon, the site of large, intricate Anaszi ruins that date to about 1000 A.D. When the Spanish "discovered" it, they couldn't believe that the Puebloan people of the region-Dine, Hope, Tewa, etc.-or their ancestors could have been capable of such large-scale, intricate construction, so they falsely attributed it to the Aztecs-hence, the name of the town.

What's happened with Great Zimbabwe is similar, but even more insidious. While archeaological evidence, and all archaeologists attribute Great Zimbabwe to native origin, white colonialists had a great investment in minimalizing and even denying its African origin. When the country was called Rhodesia, and run by white settlers, visitors to the site were told the official Rhodesian story, which you pretty much regurgitated here....

In any case,it's not the only evidence of African culture that met or exceeded your paltry conditions for "civilization." :rolleyes:
 
Twin Fist said:
so say you, and no offense, but if you told me what TIME it was I would double check.............
Click to expand...

O course, a trade center would show the influence of other cultures it traded with: CHina, Indonesia, etc., but Zimbabwe is almost certainly indigenous in origin, and no not so say I-I'm an engineer and physicist, not an archaeologist. However, rather than beleive Wikipedia or me, perhaps you'll trust NOVA....

...or, maybe not. Maybe you have as much invested in confining all of African culture and history to nakedness,in mud and thatch huts, as Cecil Rhodes and company did. :lol: :rolleyes:

Oh, and I wouldn't be bothered to give you the time of day-or even an unreasonable facsimile thereof. It's just that demonstrated ignorance of the sort you've displayed here (and there's nothing wrong with ignorance-you've taken the first step away from it by saying "I didn't know that") must be replied to.
 
thats classy, i disagree with you, you throw a not so subtle accusation of racism my way.

THAT is a good example of why i dont take you seriously.

back to ignore with you, you and your "ideals" are not worth my time
 
Twin Fist said:
thats classy, i disagree with you, you throw a not so subtle accusation of racism my way.

THAT is a good example of why i dont take you seriously.

back to ignore with you, you and your "ideals" are not worth my time
Click to expand...

Nothing subtle or accusatory about it. Just another of those inconvenient facts you seem to enjoy so much, when they suit you......

Oh-back to ignoreance. Why am I not surprised? :rolleyes:
 
Both Nolerama and I have given you permanent buildings in Africa but you chose to argue with Elder? Are we on ignore too I wonder. Makes for a woefully sad discussion.
 
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