Hanzou
Grandmaster
"Windmilling" punches are part of Shaolin Long Fist practice-of course, you know that.
Says quite a lot about Shaolin Long Fist practice doesn't it?
legendary fight between masters...
- Thread starter TSDTexan
- Start date
Says quite a lot about Shaolin Long Fist practice doesn't it?
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
"Windmilling" punches are part of Shaolin Long Fist practice-of course, you know that.
More to the point, I believe the fight was between a Wu Taiji guy and a Tibetan white crane guy. I can understand why someone at Hanzou's level of comprehension would call what he sees "windmilling", which speaks volumes. I'm no longer inclined to offer him an education and he is welcome to believe what he wants. My comment here is really just to let Elder know, it's not shaolin, it's Tibetan crane. Funny thing is, it's the Taiji guy who is doing the "windmilling" < snicker snicker > but some folks (and I'm not referring to Elder here) wouldn't know the difference anyway. But that's not important. And anyone who thinks that what is going on is "windmilling" deserves to be snickered at.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Snicker snicker.
School is closed. Believe what you want. The comment wasn't meant for you anyway.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Style bashing again? Do you have any training in Shaolin Long Fist to name judgement?
OP
OP
TSDTexan
Master of Arts
How did Funakoshi really feel about jiyu kumite (free fighting)?
Well this is what Richard Kim said in an article about GF in Blackbelt magazine:
When he moved to Japan in 1922, he stayed with other Okinawans at a students’ dormitory in Tokyo. He lived in a small room alongside the entrance and would clean the dormitory during the day when the students were in class. At night, he would teach them karate. After a short time, he’d earned sufficient money to open a dojo.
Funakoshi started visiting the Shichi Tokudo, a barracks located on palace grounds, every other day to teach and was always accompanied by Hidenori Otsuka, one of his most brilliant students.
In 1927 three senior students decided that the kata practice they had been focusing on was not enough. They introduced jiyu kumite (free fighting) in their training, so they created protective clothing and wore kendo masks to shield their faces against hard strikes. Funakoshi heard about these bouts and, when he could not discourage them — he considered them belittling to the art of karate — he stopped coming to the Shichi Tokudo.
Well this is what Richard Kim said in an article about GF in Blackbelt magazine:
When he moved to Japan in 1922, he stayed with other Okinawans at a students’ dormitory in Tokyo. He lived in a small room alongside the entrance and would clean the dormitory during the day when the students were in class. At night, he would teach them karate. After a short time, he’d earned sufficient money to open a dojo.
Funakoshi started visiting the Shichi Tokudo, a barracks located on palace grounds, every other day to teach and was always accompanied by Hidenori Otsuka, one of his most brilliant students.
In 1927 three senior students decided that the kata practice they had been focusing on was not enough. They introduced jiyu kumite (free fighting) in their training, so they created protective clothing and wore kendo masks to shield their faces against hard strikes. Funakoshi heard about these bouts and, when he could not discourage them — he considered them belittling to the art of karate — he stopped coming to the Shichi Tokudo.
TSDTexan, you would be better off writing articles. As seems to be the pattern with the long twisting histories you write, you obviously know the answer to the question you ask but are waiting to contradict it with something questionable.
The thing is I'm not that into the history except as a guide to applying the art. So continuing a historical debate in a thread whose point you refuse to give is a non starter. Suffice to say that I disagree about Funakoshi's beliefs on sparring, about the relevance of the jutsu/do distinction in GF's teaching and that there is ever a useful conclusion to be drawn from a challenge match. And please don't put words in my mouth. I never once suggested that Funakoshi was any sort of Saint.
The thing is I'm not that into the history except as a guide to applying the art. So continuing a historical debate in a thread whose point you refuse to give is a non starter. Suffice to say that I disagree about Funakoshi's beliefs on sparring, about the relevance of the jutsu/do distinction in GF's teaching and that there is ever a useful conclusion to be drawn from a challenge match. And please don't put words in my mouth. I never once suggested that Funakoshi was any sort of Saint.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
What is it that you see in the video?
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I see a spectator event.
Given that I study one of the methods seen there, I can actually see the principles in action, which is saying something given the grainy and poor quality of the film. But I know what I am looking at, beyond simply a fight, or "bad fighting" as you call it.
Am I impressed with this? No. I don't know the status of the Taiji guy at that time, but the crane guy was a young man at the time, not a "master". So the whole thing about masters can't fight, well...
Does this exhibition bother me? Not in the least. It is an event that was, in that era, rarely captured on film. Does that man represent me, or the system I study? Nope. He represents himself, so far as I am concerned. This event happened a decade or two before I was born, it means nothing to me. There is all kinds of bad fighting going on out there. None of it means anything to me. Some people get pretty hung up over what they see on video.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
Who are these "many" masters that you know that makes you qualified to make that statement? That's what i disagree with. How many masters do you know that can't fight?
As for what it looked like I don't know enough about what was going in off a short clip to make that determination. As to how my fighting will look well I don't fight.
OP
OP
TSDTexan
Master of Arts
Roger
It's not hard to see what's going on there. Bad fighting.
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
So who are all these masters that can't fight?
ballen0351
Sr. Grandmaster
According to you. Feel free to post up a clip of you fighting well
Hanzou
Grandmaster
Fortunately Funakoshi's later students ended the practice of not practicing free sparring. Kata training is simply not enough to develop proper fighting technique, as this episode and several others have demonstrated.
