Legal Issues on McDojos

[muayThaiPerson]

Every Instructor needs to have credentials right? Isnt fraud unlawful? If theres a McDojo, then fraud exist...cant the instructor be shut down or be arrested?

 

[GouRonin]

I think that with standardized systems Fraud might be easier to prove but with the martial arts you have to prove that the person purposely defrauded you of something that you can tangibly prove.

I'd like to hear what CDHall has to say on the subject. I know he does not like to advertise what he does but his opinion here might be very useful in helping to understand the complexities of the issue.

 

[yilisifu]

Since ANYBODY can be a black belt (there is no standardizing or certifying organization for all styles), it'd be impossible to sue the instructor for claiming to be a black belt - unless he alleges that he is a blakc belt of a known organization and it can be proven otherwise.
Even so, you would have to be able to show tangible loss, I think.

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Are contracts signs of McDojos?

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Are contracts signs of McDojos?

This came up in the infamous thread started by Judo-kid a few weeks back...

A contract between student and teacher outlining the specific legal and financial responsibilities between them is not in itself a mark of a McDojo. It is the mark of a responsible instructor who wants to be perfectly clear of his responsibilities and rights toward his student body.

However, if the contractual relationship is profoundly absurd, and the tuition is far and away beyond the average for martial instruction in a given area, and the duration of the contract as well as its ability to be dissolved are ridiculous, then sure.

Common sense is a guide here. Those who maintain contracts are part and parcel of McDojo operations have never dealt with the legal pitfalls of lawsuits for injury or the problems that arise when income for training is impossible to collect on...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[muayThaiPerson]

dictionary.com defines contact as "An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law"

If anyone has signed a contract, can you please post what you remember was on then contract and state what your part of the deal was.

Some gyms have "packages", where if you choose to have a long term membership (ex. a year), the cost is cheaper than paying month-by-month for that amount of time. Example, a yearly memberships cost is $700.. whereas a monthly cost is $80. If you were to pay 80$ for 12 months, the cost of the package would be 200$ cheaper. Now is that a "contract"?

 

[Matt Stone]

Is it a contract? Sure. If you have two people agreeing, verbally or in writing (though nobody does business with verbal contracts because they are so hard to enforce in court - neither party is ever truly sure what the terms of the agreement were, so it is best to have it reduced to paper), then you have a contract.

The first contract I signed when I started martial arts training in 1986 was a three month contract, outlining my responsibility for payment of $40 per month each month, due on a certain date. After the first three months, I think I signed up for the 12 month contract, which reduced my payments down to $30 a month (the 6 month contract was $35 a month).

No tests, belts, etc., were "guaranteed." They weren't even mentioned. All the contract covered was that I could attend X number of classes per week for $Y tuition each month. Period.

Contracts are not a qualifier for McDojo-hood. Just good business sense. When you are guaranteed belt grades or anything of that sort along with your contract, you should ask to "super size" the contract and substitute the drink for a shake...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

Contracts itself... As a hacker would say, t3h n0

What's on the contract... If it says you're guranteed a black belt in a year or something like that, it's probably a McDojo.