Last Poster #6

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don’t get the safe space concept....maybe I’m just getting old and ornery.

Not sure about safe space, that can get kind of extreme, but I'm a firm believer that the golden rule should be followed online just as much as it is in person.

 

[Steve]

What’s the safe space concept?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What’s the safe space concept?

It's meant to be that within wherever the "safe space" is, no one will bully, harass, discriminate, criticize, or otherwise emotionally "harm" another person.

Often, that's taken to the level where you cannot suggest the person is ever doing something wrong (ie: if someone made a post about a front kick asking for feedback, and you mentioned they dropped their hands during the kick without a compliment as well, that is not supportive and in violation of their safe space). It's also used by some places to control who can be a member of certain websites/forums (ie: in website rules there is one saying "no racism". You mention that you are republican, and therefore you must be inherently racist. You are no longer allowed to post here.)

 

[CB Jones]

What’s the safe space concept?

The idea of safe spaces on forums

Its a forum....its safe

 

[_Simon_]

@dvcochran don't worry, I'm still training martial arts. I've just decided to discuss them elsewhere.
@Steve is pretty much spot on. The last thread I'm in came pretty close to cyber-bullying, and instead of mediating the situation, the site administrators just piled on.

Dv, you say you miss my content, but at the same time you say a lot of the time that I needed to be reigned in. You can't just have the part of me that posts content, without the part of me that posts controversial content. Otherwise my content would be boring, the threads would only have a couple posts, and we'd all just be a bunch of yes-men.

Oh, and don't think this post means I'm coming back anytime soon. Just wanted to let you know that I am still alive, still training, and still feel like this site isn't a safe enough space to discuss martial arts.

@Buka, I miss you, man! Not to try and guilt trip you, but if you were active when I quit, I might've stayed. You have a way of defusing situations (like the mods should have) and maybe it wouldn't have gone down like that.

Great to hear from you @skribs. And also miss your threads and contribution, it was certainly valued by me, and I got alot out of it. Made me think (in a good way). Sorry how things have panned out. I do hope you come back, but understand if you don't. Hope you're well brother

 

[granfire]

@dvcochran don't worry, I'm still training martial arts. I've just decided to discuss them elsewhere.
@Steve is pretty much spot on. The last thread I'm in came pretty close to cyber-bullying, and instead of mediating the situation, the site administrators just piled on.

Dv, you say you miss my content, but at the same time you say a lot of the time that I needed to be reigned in. You can't just have the part of me that posts content, without the part of me that posts controversial content. Otherwise my content would be boring, the threads would only have a couple posts, and we'd all just be a bunch of yes-men.

Oh, and don't think this post means I'm coming back anytime soon. Just wanted to let you know that I am still alive, still training, and still feel like this site isn't a safe enough space to discuss martial arts.

@Buka, I miss you, man! Not to try and guilt trip you, but if you were active when I quit, I might've stayed. You have a way of defusing situations (like the mods should have) and maybe it wouldn't have gone down like that.

Just when you thought you got out, we sucked you back in!!!!

 

[skribs]

Good to hear from you skribs.

You cannot not put out 'controversial' content without sometimes getting stiff responses. I am certain I have and do surf all the major MA forums/boards out there. Without question what you are describing happens on all of them. In my opinion the accuracy of content and thusly the people here is much more consistently accurate.

I agree, controlled content would be terrible and have mentioned that in several recent posts. That said, one element of an open forum is that it is Open, so there will always give and take. It will never Always be easy and nice, and that is a good thing.

It is nobody's fault and nothing exceptional happened IMHO. I hope you give it some thought and time and come back on a regular basis. I value your input.

The fact that you don't think anything exceptional happened is a big reason why I don't think it's a good idea to come back yet.

@CB Jones , when people don't like my ideas, that's fine. When people personally attack me or take actions against me purely out of spite is when it's a problem.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This site is convincing me to either publish my novel (@AngryHobbit I finished it!), or focus on computer science. So once I finish my work, I can work fully remote, and live in the Adirondack or Appalachians somewhere

 

[dvcochran]

You’re hearing.

you aren’t listening.

they aren’t the same thing.

After your first comment to this effect I went back and tried to re-read some of Skribs content. I guess it timed out and is no longer available. But one could do the same with almost anybody on the forum and find near identical responses. It is something termed the Discovery Protocol.
In the normal give and take of a conversation, people often disclose their true meanings, feelings, and intent whether they intend to or not. In other words, the classic verbal chess match. LEO who do personal investigations will better understand this.

There are people on most forums that are more cordial than others. That is a good and natural thing. If everyone were 'nice' and cordial in their responses that would not be realistic at all and counter-productive to the learning method. The polar extreme of what you (I think) and Skribs described.
Discovery is a process of successes and failures. Mostly failures. Again, that is a good thing. Hard for some to understand, but a good thing. In regards to life lessons and MA culture and psychology, something that takes time, years for most people, Skribs is guilty of putting this track on fast forward sometimes, risking the absence of allowing the maturation of the rest of the emotions and psyche to process. In other words, ambitious. A good thing. An inclination that comes with a rough ride most often. Hence the 'push back' and challenging responses. A natural thing. Skribs pursuit is fun, exciting, and sometimes frustrating to watch. But it is as perfect an example of what this forum is about as any I have found.

What exactly is you claim I do not hear? That a person got their feelings hurt? That, due to pushing others pushed back in an attempt to help a virtual friend with an inquiry? That many on this forum choose to hold MA's of all styles at a minimum level of integrity?
I can remember reading peoples post who were trying to answer Skribs questions in all three aspects, positive, neutral, & negative. Like most people they all three worked at different times.
Who is it that is not hearing?

 

[pdg]

I had haircut today, first one for a while, took a good 3 inches off.

As it was landing in my lap I noticed it looked much greyer than when it was attached to my head...

Also came to the conclusion that if the top gets all that much thinner it won't be there any more, at which point it'll be clippers all over - a combover just isn't happening and I'm not going for the Friar Tuck look either.

Ho hum.

 

[jks9199]

I had to Google Pokeman Go to see what it actually was.

Good thing I wasn't playing.......I'd probably still be walking.

When it came out -- we'd watch the zombies walking around, and try to keep them out of traffic...

 

[Buka]

@skribs, I miss you already.

More later, bro.

 

[Steve]

It's meant to be that within wherever the "safe space" is, no one will bully, harass, discriminate, criticize, or otherwise emotionally "harm" another person.

Often, that's taken to the level where you cannot suggest the person is ever doing something wrong (ie: if someone made a post about a front kick asking for feedback, and you mentioned they dropped their hands during the kick without a compliment as well, that is not supportive and in violation of their safe space). It's also used by some places to control who can be a member of certain websites/forums (ie: in website rules there is one saying "no racism". You mention that you are republican, and therefore you must be inherently racist. You are no longer allowed to post here.)

The idea of safe spaces on forums

Its a forum....its safe

Got it. While I think it's a good idea to avoid bullying, harassing, or discriminating, I think the site would be boring without criticism. The relevant point here, in my opinion, is that if you do bully, harass, discriminate, criticize, or make someone feel bad, you shouldn't be surprised if that person leaves. This is even more true if they tell you they're going to leave if you don't stop, and then you don't stop.

To try to be very clear, when @dvcochran said that he missed @skribs posts, I was curious why he left. I was surprised to see how active a role @dvcochran played in that thread. It's the disconnect that struck me as noteworthy. On one hand, he says wishes @skribs were back. On the other, he hasn't (that I've seen) even acknowledged his role in @skribs' departure. Or to try and say is simply, my impression reading through the thread is that there was a difference of opinion, one person (skribs) was getting pissed off and said so. The rest of the group just kept saying the same thing, and also started telling him he was wrong for being upset.

FWIW, I'm not opposed to conflict, criticism, or spirited discussion. In fact, this reminds me of a thread from a while back where K-man was really offended by me (and I by him), and ended up leaving in a huff shortly after. There is a key difference, though. I harbor no illusions about my role in his leaving, and I don't wish for a moment he was back. I know others on the forum have different opinions, and that's just fine. I'll let you judge for yourselves if I was being a huge jerk or not.

Anyway, my point isn't to advocate for a safe space. Simply that if someone tells you they're getting upset, and that they're going to leave, and you keep doing whatever it is that they say is upsetting them, don't be surprised if they leave.

 

[Steve]

After your first comment to this effect I went back and tried to re-read some of Skribs content. I guess it timed out and is no longer available.

It's all available, I'm sure. I just found a thread from 4 or 5 years ago. Try using Google (or Bing) and typing in a few keywords, plus "site:www.martialtalk.com" and you'll find what you're looking for in no time.

But one could do the same with almost anybody on the forum and find near identical responses. It is something termed the Discovery Protocol.
In the normal give and take of a conversation, people often disclose their true meanings, feelings, and intent whether they intend to or not. In other words, the classic verbal chess match. LEO who do personal investigations will better understand this.

I have to admit I have NO idea what you're' talking about here.

There are people on most forums that are more cordial than others. That is a good and natural thing. If everyone were 'nice' and cordial in their responses that would not be realistic at all and counter-productive to the learning method. The polar extreme of what you (I think) and Skribs described.

Also no idea what this means. Are you talking about being friendly? If so, do you think you can disagree or debate in a friendly way?

Discovery is a process of successes and failures. Mostly failures. Again, that is a good thing. Hard for some to understand, but a good thing. In regards to life lessons and MA culture and psychology, something that takes time, years for most people, Skribs is guilty of putting this track on fast forward sometimes, risking the absence of allowing the maturation of the rest of the emotions and psyche to process. In other words, ambitious. A good thing. An inclination that comes with a rough ride most often. Hence the 'push back' and challenging responses. A natural thing. Skribs pursuit is fun, exciting, and sometimes frustrating to watch. But it is as perfect an example of what this forum is about as any I have found.

Yeah, I guess it's very hard for me to understand. But I do notice that you talk a lot about Skribs… what he's guilty of, what he writes, how he writes, etc. You understand that he was pretty clear in that thread he left, at least in part, because you were explaining to him what he thought, why he thought it, and why he was wrong to think it. Do you see how arrogant that seems?

What exactly is you claim I do not hear? That a person got their feelings hurt? That, due to pushing others pushed back in an attempt to help a virtual friend with an inquiry? That many on this forum choose to hold MA's of all styles at a minimum level of integrity?

Well, case in point, I said you ARE hearing, but you aren't listening. But if I had to distill it to as simple a point as I can, it would be what I wrote above. You seem unwilling or unable to understand your contribution to the situation. As I said in my previous post. Regardless of the topic at hand, the rightness or wrongness of the opinions, you basically invited @skribs to leave. It seems disingenuous for you to then lament his absence. That's what I mean by not listening. You still think this is about the opinions expressed in the thread. It's not.

I can remember reading peoples post who were trying to answer Skribs questions in all three aspects, positive, neutral, & negative. Like most people they all three worked at different times.
Who is it that is not hearing?

Hearing, but not listening... jeez, man. You're proving my point.

 

[Steve]

This site is convincing me to either publish my novel (@AngryHobbit I finished it!), or focus on computer science. So once I finish my work, I can work fully remote, and live in the Adirondack or Appalachians somewhere

Congratulations. I hope you realize your dreams of living in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Buka]

Congratulations. I hope you realize your dreams of living in the middle of nowhere.

It ain’t too bad, not bad at all. I live in the most isolated center of population on the planet.

Now if I could only get half the people here to move away...

 

[CB Jones]

when people don't like my ideas, that's fine. When people personally attack me or take actions against me purely out of spite is when it's a problem.

Some advice take it or leave it...

Ask yourself this....why does someone I have never met opinions or thoughts bother I? In the grand scheme of things....you choose if that opinion or comment is relevant to you.

If its a comment that upsets you consider it irrelevant and disregard it.

I have a tendency to argue and often times have to remind myself....people have the right to be wrong and just move on with it.

 

[drop bear]

I don’t get the safe space concept....maybe I’m just getting old and ornery.

It kind of depends on who is at the top. I don't need a safe space because all my monoculture friends agree with me vs I need one because nobody agrees with me.

It is very open to bias.

So quite often people who are preserving the acceptable normal do not realize they are bullying people.

Australians are different. Taking the piss is just considered good conversation.

Anyway safe space is generally needed where someone needs to escape a constant pressure of external judgement.

We constantly have to tone it down for anonymous internet forums.

 

[dvcochran]

Before I get bashed by someone, I just figured out how to search for old content. Apparently typing a name in the search bar in the upper right of the screen does not work, but using the 'search forum' button does.
I did go back

It's all available, I'm sure. I just found a thread from 4 or 5 years ago. Try using Google (or Bing) and typing in a few keywords, plus "site:www.martialtalk.com" and you'll find what you're looking for in no time.

I have to admit I have NO idea what you're' talking about here. Also no idea what this means. Are you talking about being friendly? If so, do you think you can disagree or debate in a friendly way? Yeah, I guess it's very hard for me to understand. But I do notice that you talk a lot about Skribs… what he's guilty of, what he writes, how he writes, etc. You understand that he was pretty clear in that thread he left, at least in part, because you were explaining to him what he thought, why he thought it, and why he was wrong to think it. Do you see how arrogant that seems? Well, case in point, I said you ARE hearing, but you aren't listening. But if I had to distill it to as simple a point as I can, it would be what I wrote above. You seem unwilling or unable to understand your contribution to the situation. As I said in my previous post. Regardless of the topic at hand, the rightness or wrongness of the opinions, you basically invited @skribs to leave. It seems disingenuous for you to then lament his absence. That's what I mean by not listening. You still think this is about the opinions expressed in the thread. It's not.
Hearing, but not listening... jeez, man. You're proving my point.

This is a fruitless debate but here we go.

I am only talking About Skribs because that is the center of the conversation. It is rather silly to claim I talk about him/her a lot since this thread is the only place I am talking about him/her and it is only a scant amount of time. There is about 23 hours and 45 minutes left in each day.

As usual, there are semantics and presentation at play. You feel people should present their views and information a certain way. My background has conditioned me to be more direct and forthright. I imagine I have struggled with people who are too worried about being nice and never making a point as much some struggle with me being direct.

You feel bad for Skribs, I get it. Have you made an effort to help him/her through their feelings? I intentionally gave it some time and then have went out of my way to reach out in a way I thought was appropriate. Furthermore, I did this half expecting exactly these kinds of response. I have no issue with saying I was strong in some of my responses, but don't kid yourself into thinking Skribs was singled out in any way. Myself and others talk the same way to everyone.

How is it arrogant to continue to try and help someone, especially when they are making it really hard. We lost a close family member last week largely due to hard living and foolish choices. He had similar tendencies of not listening to anyone's advise, even when there was a mountain of evidence in front of him. Now I certainly hope this is in no way similar to Skribs lifestyle but the tendencies are similar. Again, he IS the topic, hence the name being used frequently.

By your own admission, there are conversation/interrogation skills that you do not understand. It is not like Skribs had committed a crime and then had to run from the law or some such.

Your line of reasoning is silly, and yes that was me being nice.

So we are back at the same impasse where we started. This has trended way off the original point of me even mentioning Skribs. My original comment that I miss his presence still stands.
It is fruitless for you and I to bat around appropriate forum wording. A Lot of people on this and every other forum have been scolded for their comments and had to reel them in. Along this line, Skribs was never willing to see that maybe there was something to what Many other people were try to say and instead continued to keep pushing the dialect. That is simply a form of self abuse when; you don't like getting piled on, however you keep posting in a manner that is going to get you piled on, subsequently getting your feelings hurt because you thought people were mean. The value of just shutting up and listening to what everyone else is saying sometimes is priceless.

 

[AngryHobbit]

This site is convincing me to either publish my novel (@AngryHobbit I finished it!), or focus on computer science. So once I finish my work, I can work fully remote, and live in the Adirondack or Appalachians somewhere

Good for you. Ahh.... how fabulous it would be to retire after the first novel.