Lack of respect---bothersome???

[47MartialMan]

I see. What is his "family art"?

A Okinawan style. He had returned there and I can't seem to locate/contact he or the family. Google or people search engines are no help.

I think the family may have moved to Taiwan,Thailand, or somewhere like that.

This is based upon:
He had always spoke with disgust on how the US gave back the Okinawan Islands to Japan.

Many Okinawans believe that they are not Japanese and should not be part of the Japanese Government/country.

It is the same feelings of Tibetian towards China and Hawiians (island families with long lineage before US) towards the US.

 

[Jumper53]

I think to improve the image of MA everyone should make a pact to never do a TV Sit Com. No amount of money is worth the negative impression they give of Martial Art Classes.

Every Sit Com with Martial Arts has the same plot. The instructor is always the protagonist and the star of the show is taking a self defense course (but for the wrong reasons and some other life lesson is really what they need to solve their problem). In class the instructor yells and intimidates them but no Martial Arts are actually being done. Then with 25 people sitting around in a circle watching the Star ends up sparring the instructor. Then the Star embarrases the instructor and ..... end scene.

The only other plot I have seen is where the instructor is dating the Female Star. Then she dumps him for being a creep and embarases him in front of the class. Still not a good impression.

Why do martial art instructors agree to do TV shows like this? Do they read the script first? It hurts my brain to watch. As soon as I see the obligatory, usually second season "She takes a martial art class" episode starting I cannot watch any more. And sometimes cry.

:whip: By the way. If any of you instructors take students on their first class and put them up in front of the whole group, intimidate them and then spar them... STOP TEACHING RIGHT NOW!

Please, if you ever are asked to do MA on a TV show, read the script first. And for the sake of all your other MA buddies, do not do it for any amount of money if the plot is as described above. PLEASE! YOUR PRIDE IS WORTH WAY MORE. DO NOT GIVE IN, AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR WITH PRIDE, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. PLEASE!

:asian:

 

[47MartialMan]

I think to improve the image of MA everyone should make a pact to never do a TV Sit Com. No amount of money is worth the negative impression they give of Martial Art Classes.

Every Sit Com with Martial Arts has the same plot. The instructor is always the protagonist and the star of the show is taking a self defense course (but for the wrong reasons and some other life lesson is really what they need to solve their problem). In class the instructor yells and intimidates them but no Martial Arts are actually being done. Then with 25 people sitting around in a circle watching the Star ends up sparring the instructor. Then the Star embarrases the instructor and ..... end scene.

The only other plot I have seen is where the instructor is dating the Female Star. Then she dumps him for being a creep and embarases him in front of the class. Still not a good impression.

Why do martial art instructors agree to do TV shows like this? Do they read the script first? It hurts my brain to watch. As soon as I see the obligatory, usually second season "She takes a martial art class" episode starting I cannot watch any more. And sometimes cry.

:whip: By the way. If any of you instructors take students on their first class and put them up in front of the whole group, intimidate them and then spar them... STOP TEACHING RIGHT NOW!

Please, if you ever are asked to do MA on a TV show, read the script first. And for the sake of all your other MA buddies, do not do it for any amount of money if the plot is as described above. PLEASE! YOUR PRIDE IS WORTH WAY MORE. DO NOT GIVE IN, AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR WITH PRIDE, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. PLEASE!

:asian:

I hadnt seen these.

 

[Jumper53]

I once saw two adults who were orange belts in Karate wearing their Gi as a Haloween costume, at a bar. :supcool:

I started talking to them and they told me which school they were from. We all showed off our Myagi-Do for a couple of minutes and laughed

Then I told them that I was an instructor and if I ever saw any of my students wearing their uniforms as costumes I would rip them off them and never allow them back in class again. Then I told them that if I saw them in their Gi's again (even that night) I would visit their instructor on the following Monday.

I guess I kinda put a damper on their big night out, they ran out the door and I never saw them again.

 

[47MartialMan]

I once saw two adults who were orange belts in Karate wearing their Gi as a Haloween costume, at a bar. :supcool:

I started talking to them and they told me which school they were from. We all showed off our Myagi-Do for a couple of minutes and laughed

Then I told them that I was an instructor and if I ever saw any of my students wearing their uniforms as costumes I would rip them off them and never allow them back in class again. Then I told them that if I saw them in their Gi's again (even that night) I would visit their instructor on the following Monday.

I guess I kinda put a damper on their big night out, they ran out the door and I never saw them again.

I have to agree with you and this:

http://www.spiritualminds.com/articles.asp?articleid=2021

 

[mj-hi-yah]

3)I doubt you would since you are a girl. Being a 6’2” 225lbs gaijin male in a land where the average male height is around 5’8”/165 lbs. I kind of stick out and look a bit more “aggressive” than a female would. However, when most people in Japan think of karate they usually say “Kyokushin” since it is the most popular “brand” in Japan and has a tendency to be “gang related”. I posted an article in the Karate Forum that mentions this.

It's interesting that you are such a tall person living in Japan, because my relative who lives there is also quite tall and one of their jokes is that he sticks out like a sore thumb, especially because he likes to play basketball. If you see tall white guy named Michael playing basketball, say hi for me! They just had a baby and it is very sad that only her mother will accept their union. The culture is a bit different and accepting Americans, in this case anyway, seems to be very hard, so the new family must visit the baby's new grandmother at a neighbor's home. So I am sure you must know from experience that being a white male in Japan some people will likely make assumptions about your aggression because of what you study and because you are big/tall.
In fact, I think that is true of the US as well - that men are assumed to be more aggressive, it's interesting that we were discussing this very topic in my Kenpo class just today.

2) Not a big surprise there. Most Japanese don’t know squat about their own culture especially martial culture. Baseball, soccer and golf are more popular than MA are.

This one is surprising to me. Education is so highly emphasized in Japan, and I would think studying their own culture would be included in that.

“The Okinawan Program”.

Sounds interesting...

Jumper53 I agree with you about the karate gis as costumes...that doesn't help us in the respect department any.

 

[Eldritch Knight]

This one is surprising to me. Education is so highly emphasized in Japan, and I would think studying their own culture would be included in that.

True, but for the most part they'll forget everything they don't need after high school. Unfortunately, with the exception of some Japanese culture and history buffs, many youngsters don't much care for old traditions and would much rather go with the flow of the culture as it stands today. I can't say that this is especially untrue in America either. For example, how many Americans still think that slavery was the one and only cause of the Civil War?

 

[mj-hi-yah]

True, but for the most part they'll forget everything they don't need after high school. Unfortunately, with the exception of some Japanese culture and history buffs, many youngsters don't much care for old traditions and would much rather go with the flow of the culture as it stands today. I can't say that this is especially untrue in America either. For example, how many Americans still think that slavery was the one and only cause of the Civil War?

You are right about America I think. There are always exceptions, and I have not read the recent reports so this trend may be changing, but when I was in graduate school we had to study the comparisons of how our students did educationally compared to the rest of the world, and we did not come out on top. Education generally is not valued as highly here as it is in Japan where they outperformed us in many subject areas, however their teenage suicide rate at that time was also much higher than here. Parental pressure may have accounted for that and may account for your statement concerning Japanese children rejecting culture. That as they grow up and answer to themselves traditions may be rejected.

I'm not sure that all of this fits the topic at hand but perhaps it is part of why there may not be a lot of respect for martial arts today in America - that being a general lack of respect for culturally rooted things. :idunno: Opinions?

 

[RRouuselot]

A Okinawan style. He had returned there and I can't seem to locate/contact he or the family. Google or people search engines are no help.

I think the family may have moved to Taiwan,Thailand, or somewhere like that.

When I inquired about your teachers “family art” I was asking for a name of the art not necessarily where it came from. What is his “family art” called? Can you tell us your teacher’s name and the names of the people he trained under?

 

[47MartialMan]

When I inquired about your teachers “family art” I was asking for a name of the art not necessarily where it came from. What is his “family art” called? Can you tell us your teacher’s name and the names of the people he trained under?

Otsumura Matsuda.... he simply said it was their "tode". But the way he pronounced it was different than I am used to hearing it.
He had some strange ways. I had studied with them for four years and that was a grueling fours years. Almost as worse as being in a military armed force, but I was able to go home. The family was small. And the name is very common.

There was one high level instructor under him, somewhere in the US. However, I a can't locate him either.


Back to topic;

Lack of respect has much to do with the social order/environment. In other words-"times change".

But, it many situations, from my environment, I do not see much lack of respect.

 

[RRouuselot]

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Otsumura Matsuda....

2)[font=&quot] [/font]he simply said it was their "tode". But the way he pronounced it was different than I am used to hearing it.



3)[font=&quot] [/font]He had some strange ways. I had studied with them for four years and that was a grueling fours years. Almost as worse as being in a military armed force, but I was able to go home.

4)[font=&quot] [/font]The family was small. And the name is very common.




5)[font=&quot] [/font]There was one high level instructor under him, somewhere in the US. However, I a can't locate him either.


Back to topic;

Lack of respect has much to do with the social order/environment. In other words-"times change".

But, it many situations, from my environment, I do not see much lack of respect.

1)[font=&quot] [/font]“otsumura” & “matsuda” are both Japanese and not Okinawa AND more interestingly they are both “family” names. So there is a “red flag”.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]Un uh….. and another “red flag”. Okinawa is a REALLY small place and nobody and I mean NOBDOY has called their style “Tode” since the 1800’s.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Ya I’ll bet.

4)[font=&quot] [/font]Based on the “made up” name you have provided I doubt there was a “family” at all.

5)[font=&quot] [/font]How convenient.



I think these claims you have made tie right into this topic of “lack of respect”. You come here and talk about “your teacher’s family style” and when asked for specifics you give an obviously made up name for your instructor and some extremely vague description of the style.

To me this shows a lack of respect to the other board members. I also think the forum rules that state we have to “respect” our fellow members is inaccurate. I think a better word might be “tolerate”, since I can not “respect” someone that comes here and is purposely vague and willfully misleading. I have no choice but to “tolerate” them but I can not and will not “respect” them.

As an example my friend gave me once: “I cannot respect the Nazi Party but I must tolerate their right to free speech”.

It’s the same here on MT, I don’t have to respect the obvious “fabrication” you have just posted but I must tolerate it.

 

[47MartialMan]

1)“otsumura” & “matsuda” are both Japanese and not Okinawa AND more interestingly they are both “family” names. So there is a “red flag”..

First-no red flag here. I wrote down what I WAS told. For I know, perhaps they were around "hiding" from something or someone"

2)Un uh….. and another “red flag”. Okinawa is a REALLY small place and nobody and I mean NOBDOY has called their style “Tode” since the 1800’s.

I didnt say he actually named it that way. He only referenced it that way and not exactly such pronounced.

4)Based on the “made up” name you have provided I doubt there was a “family” at all.

They were a small family. A married couple, a sister-in-law, and a daughter. Though prhaps not informed, I sit thinking, maybe the daughter was the sister-in-law's. But I was told what they wanted me to know. And I didn't think to ask.
Much of their personal life was not disclosed to me. This is perhaps why it is difficult for me to try and locate them.

5)How convenient.

Yes, for THEM/HIM. Here I sit, typing only what I had expereinced. It reminds of someone learning Shaolin Kung Fu from a Chinsese whom had a shaven head. Was this actually a Shaolin monk? Was this particular teacher I had such as he claimed?. Back then, I didn't challenge his credentials or background. Back then, there wasnt the "almighty internet". Back then, I was only looking for a place to workout. Gone was the politics of who he was.(Per someone famous) Where was he from. (per I was told but didnt check) How much did he charge.(Nothing. He wasn't out to make money) What level was he. (He had nevered said) What level I could obtain. (No certification) This didnt matter to me back then. I only wanted to workout. It was good.

I think these claims you have made tie right into this topic of “lack of respect”. You come here and talk about “your teacher’s family style” and when asked for specifics you give an obviously made up name for your instructor and some extremely vague description of the style.

This was ONE teacher whom I had studied. I am sorry it is vague for I was left to believe that he knew what he knew. That his instruction was instruction. And that he had knowledge. For surely, his workouts were different than any i had experience and known of. this, is my no means as a lack of respect for anyone. All I could do with that moment in my life,is wrtie what I had experienced. I have proof that he had existed. But none to state of who is actualyy was. We had called him by his nickname-Osaki. And he nevered had allowed us to call him master.

To me this shows a lack of respect to the other board members. I also think the forum rules that state we have to “respect” our fellow members is inaccurate. I think a better word might be “tolerate”, since I can not “respect” someone that comes here and is purposely vague and willfully misleading. I have no choice but to “tolerate” them but I can not and will not “respect” them.

I am sorry that you feel this way. But in accoradnce to board rules, I really do not have to give detail on my style/system. I did not ask for your respect or tolerance. I am not purposely being vague, misleading, or whatever you choose to add.

As an example my friend gave me once: “I cannot respect the Nazi Party but I must tolerate their right to free speech”.

How dare you relate me to such a party. How dare you sit and judge me. I tell the truth, and if you knew me, my family, and been around in those years, you may have trained with that style also.

It’s the same here on MT, I don’t have to respect the obvious “fabrication” you have just posted but I must tolerate it.

Calling it a fabrication is just he same as calling me a liar. And that I cannot tolerate. I dont care of you respect or tolerate me, but you WILL not relate me to the Nazis and call me a liar.

 

[MJS]

Lets try to get back to the topic of the thread and refrain from taking personal shots at each other.

Mike

 

[RRouuselot]

Lets try to get back to the topic of the thread and refrain from taking personal shots at each other.

Mike

Nobody is taking "personal shots" at each other.
I am pointing out how people that come here and throw this klind of OBVIOUS BS around are showing a lack of respect........which is the topic here.

 

[RRouuselot]

1)First-no red flag here. I wrote down what I WAS told. For I know, perhaps they were around "hiding" from something or someone"………….

2) They were a small family. A married couple, a sister-in-law, and a daughter. Though prhaps not informed, I sit thinking, maybe the daughter was the sister-in-law's. But I was told what they wanted me to know. And I didn't think to ask.
Much of their personal life was not disclosed to me. This is perhaps why it is difficult for me to try and locate them.


3) Yes, for THEM/HIM. Here I sit, typing only what I had expereinced. It reminds of someone learning Shaolin Kung Fu from a Chinsese whom had a shaven head. Was this actually a Shaolin monk? Was this particular teacher I had such as he claimed?. Back then, I didn't challenge his credentials or background. Back then, there wasnt the "almighty internet". Back then, I was only looking for a place to workout. Gone was the politics of who he was. Where was he from. How much did he charge. What level was he. What level I could obtain. this dint matter to me back then. I only wanted to workout. It was good.This was ONE teacher whom I had studied. I am sorry it is vague for I was left to believe that he knew what he knew. That his instruction was instruction. And that he had knowledge. For surely, his workouts were different than any i had experience and known of. this, is my no means as a lack of respect for anyone. All I could do with that moment in my life,is wrtie what I had experienced. I have proof that he had existed. But none to state of who is actualyy was.

4)We had called him by his nickname-Osaki. And he nevered had allowed us to call him master.


5) I am sorry that you feel this way. But in accoradnce to board rules, I really do not have to give detail on my style/system. I did not ask for your respect or tolerance. I am not purposely being vague, misleading, or whatever you choose to add.

6) How dare you relate me to such a party. How dare you sit and judge me. I tell the truth, and if you knew me, my family, and been around in those years, you may have trained with that style also.


7) Calling it a fabrication is just he same as calling me a liar. And that I cannot tolerate. i dont care of you respect or tolerate me, but you WILL not relate me to the Nazis and call me a liar.

1)

2)??????

3)The “I didn’t ask questions all I wanted to do was train” is a similar defense used by others that have dubious claims to training. There is nothing wrong with asking questions about someone’s training and there should be no vague answers if they trained legitimately. Therefore vague answers are usually the first clue that something is not what they say it is.



4)Hahahahahahahaha….

5)Again another tactic employed by people that claim dubious training and credentials.

6)I think if your understanding of the English language was a bit better you may have understood my point. Obviously you didn’t though.

7)Yup……and until I see some evidence that can be corroborated I will continue to think so. Don’t take it personally but guys like you that come on here and claim all kinds of things that are obviously bogus to anyone that has trained in the MA or lived in Asia for a length of time are being discourteous to other unknowing board members….i.e. “disrespectful”.


How does my commenting on your obvious fabricated teacher’s name and “family style” relate this thread?

Well just read some of the other comments about people claiming all sorts of ridiculous things that either misleads, misinforms or just down right BS the general public into thinking the MA are something they are not and thereby creating a general aura of “disrespect”.

 

[47MartialMan]

Don’t take it personally but guys like you that come on here and claim all kinds of things that are obviously bogus to anyone that has trained in the MA or lived in Asia for a length of time are being discourteous to other unknowing board members….i.e. “disrespectful”.

I do take it personally. I am not being disrespectful. Do you think I dont feel embarassed training/studying form people whom had little to no credentials?

The “I didn’t ask questions all I wanted to do was train” is a similar defense used by others that have dubious claims to training. There is nothing wrong with asking questions about someone’s training and there should be no vague answers if they trained legitimately. Therefore vague answers are usually the first clue that something is not what they say it is.
Yes, but in one's life, at any point, there is gullibility. We all make mistakes. Things are vague to me as well. Which is why I hardly post my instructors or styles.

I am sorry that you feel this way. But in accoradnce to board rules, I really do not have to give detail on my style/system. I did not ask for your respect or tolerance. I am not purposely being vague, misleading, or whatever you choose to add.
If I had chose to be behind board rules, I would not have posted it in the first place. I welcome the challenge, but do not call me a liar or fabricator. I am only telling you from what I have expereinced. In the anaolgy as I tell new acquaintance that I had a 1970 Dodge charger, there will be those that will not beleive it. If I provide pictures, there will still be doubt. If I show them the car, they will know the truth. The only way i can show truth is to take you back into time. However, all I can state is what was, then, a truth to me.

Well just read some of the other comments about people claiming all sorts of ridiculous things that either misleads, misinforms or just down right BS the general public into thinking the MA are something they are not and thereby creating a general aura of “disrespect”.
I didnt lay claim to anything that I havent actually done. You were not there and you do not know me. Therefore, I do not think I lay disreopct to anyone since I know I speak from my words-my truth.

 

[47MartialMan]

Nobody is taking "personal shots" at each other.
I am pointing out how people that come here and throw this klind of OBVIOUS BS around are showing a lack of respect........which is the topic here.

It is not BS...it is past. Dont call what I post BS if you haven't met me or know me.

Just because you may be in Japan or in some "cozy" martial art, doesnt mean that others cannot or have not trained in anything.

Yup……and until I see some evidence that can be corroborated I will continue to think so.

And what kind of evidence can do this? In your own mind, with your own art, you relate you evidence of your training to someone else's? How can you hold truth or standards to someone else?

If someone fabricated a art and taught it, it is applicable, dont think it is BS. Dont call the students of that art BS also.

There was once a discussion I had from someone whom believes the late Master James Mistose was BS and fabricated his credentials. And yet, he taught students whom became instructors, and there is a lineage. Would one consider these people as BS.

Dont call me a liar sir.....

Furthermore the topic is about disrepect from non-martial artists....
Are you stating that I am not one also......

 

[tshadowchaser]

Mod. Note.


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[RRouuselot]

1)It is not BS...it is past. Dont call what I post BS if you haven't met me or know me.

2)Just because you may be in Japan or in some "cozy" martial art, doesnt mean that others cannot or have not trained in anything.

3)And what kind of evidence can do this? In your own mind, with your own art, you relate you evidence of your training to someone else's? How can you hold truth or standards to someone else?

4)There was once a discussion I had from someone whom believes the late Master James Mistose was BS and fabricated his credentials. And yet, he taught students whom became instructors, and there is a lineage. Would one consider these people as BS.

5)Furthermore the topic is about disrepect from non-martial artists....
Are you stating that I am not one also......

1)There is no need to meet you I can read what you have written and comment on it.

2)No, the fact that I live and train in Japan speak Japanese and have learned a great deal about the history and culture of both Okinawa and Japan has given me the knowledge to know when someone has made up a Japanese name or style. Using 2 family names and claiming they are a person's whole name like your supposed teacher “Otsumura Matsuda” is like saying a guys name was “Tanaka Tanaka”. There is also the fact that you alluded to your teacher being Okinawan……both of those names are Japanese names. Yet another discrepancy in your story.

“Otsumura Matsuda” is a made up name plain and simple.
There is also the fact that you claim it is his “family style”…..well considering there is no “Otsumura” or “Matsuda” style in Okinawa nor do people call their style “tode” anymore that doesn’t lend you any credibility.

So basically what you have told us thus far is that: your teacher has 2 Japanese last names but claims to be of Okinawan heritage somehow, teaches a style that has no name, possibly has a senior student in the US but nobody knows where, you trained with him for 4 years but never asked any questions about him or the style you were there to just train.

Quite frankly you would have to be the first MA person I have ever seen that showed absolutely zero interest knowing about their teacher or style.

3)Where is you teacher now? Okinawa? If so give me his contact info and I will look him up……or has he conveniently gone missing and nobody is able to contact him?

4)Different thread that I care nothing about.

5)I am stating that when people shovel BS about their who their teacher was, their training and abilities this formulates skepticism and distrust from non-martial arts people and in the end generates disrespect.

Just out of curiosity is anyone not getting my point here?

 

[47MartialMan]

1)There is no need to meet you I can read what you have written and comment on it.

But why state that I am fabricating? I am only posting what I have experienced. Since you do not know me, and I have stated the possiblities, how can you call me a liar? I am far too up in age then to fabrciate and play games like teenagers and youngsters on forums such as this.

2)No, the fact that I live and train in Japan speak Japanese and have learned a great deal about the history and culture of both Okinawa and Japan has given me the knowledge to know when someone has made up a Japanese name or style. Using 2 family names and claiming they are a person's whole name like your supposed teacher “Otsumura Matsuda” is like saying a guys name was “Tanaka Tanaka”. It's made up plain and simple.

Hey, I agree that it sounds strange. And you are not the first to tell me this. It sounds made up, but not by me. Looking at my past journals, which are like a diary, I also have his name spelled Osakumura-in one place. Osaku in another, and his father's name-Tokguro in another.

3)Where is you teacher now? Okinawa? If so give me his contact info and I will look him up……or has he conveniently gone missing and nobody is able to contact him?

I did state that I was trying to relocate him. I had many questions to ask him. Hopefully more details on him, his name, his family lineage and a rekindle greeting. I beleive, as I had decades ago, which were years after his disapperance, that he wasn't whom he claim to be. But, it didnt make him less of a teacher. Many local Occidentals studied with him. Do you want their names, addresses, contact info? The man did exist. I would appreciate if you can find him. But, as you know, as I have learn sometime ago, the name is misleading. (I also tried to locate another instructor named Charles Parks or McParks...no luck there also.)

4)Different thread that I care nothing about.

(Ref James Mistose) It is in the very relation of someone calling someone a liar or fabricator. Does this make the student whom went on and study other things to improve their skill less of a martial artist? Does this make them liars and fabricators also?

5)I am stating that when people shovel BS about their who their teacher was, their training and abilities this formulates skepticism and distrust from non-martial arts people and in the end generates disrespect.

And I can understand your sentiments. However, you dont know who I am and I had explained to you the situation. People follow things blindly when they are young. I am no different or perfect. Which is why I was searching in the first place. Ever since the introduction of the interent, I have been searching for certain people.

What you have to realize, people are mislead. And in the early 70's, moreso than today. I was such a person. Many people back then were mislead my orientals because of the look and sterotyping associated with martial arts. I am not going to state, that I didnt learn some methods and routines from him. Such as the routines, that I have not seen, so far, in other schools.

But a forum such as this can educate people that are now coming into it. Don't you think that I feel humilated being mislead? Why would you, continue to bash/insult me? Bash the siutation or that one particular man whom taught me.