Kung fu in MMA Wins

[Hanzou]

No different than Muay Thai, where we see considerable crossover. I'm not talking about mapping it over directly. Only that the striking and takedowns in San Shou are well developed and trained in a practical manner with a lot of competitive support.

Much of the MT crossover is because of American/western practitioners of the sport. MT has been around martial art circles a lot longer than San Shou/Sanda has been, and there were a lot of high level MT exponents around even before the first UFC. You really don't see too many Thai MT practitioners crossing over into MMA.

 

[Hanzou]

Worked though.

Hall should have went to One Championship. Way more respect for ground fighting there.

Garry Tonon is there putting up a clinic;

 

[JowGaWolf]

A simple "There aren't any" would suffice. This is even the case with One Championship, which is based in East Asia.

But I don't know that, and neither do you. Do you pay attention to upcoming mma fighters? If so do you know the one who tries to use traditional kung fu in his matches. There's a guy that actually does this and he fights MMA I've seen him fight and he does try to use the techniques, but I don't know anything beyond that.

The fact that I'm the one telling you about this, and the fact that you didn't bring it up, proves my point. One cannot say one way or another unless they have a good collection of information. I'm not just going to look at the UFC and think that's all there is in the world of MMA. If you know of this guy that I'm speaking of then, there would be no need for you to ask such a question.

I gave you an accurate answer, not the one you want to hear but accurate to my knowledge and how I watch MMA. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Hanzou]

But I don't know that, and neither do you. Do you pay attention to upcoming mma fighters? If so do you know the one who tries to use traditional kung fu in his matches. There's a guy that actually does this and he fights MMA I've seen him fight and he does try to use the techniques, but I don't know anything beyond that.

The fact that I'm the one telling you about this, and the fact that you didn't bring it up, proves my point. One cannot say one way or another unless they have a good collection of information. I'm not just going to look at the UFC and think that's all there is in the world of MMA. If you know of this guy that I'm speaking of then, there would be no need for you to ask such a question.

I gave you an accurate answer, not the one you want to hear but accurate to my knowledge and how I watch MMA. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Given that you viewed the video in the OP as an example of Kung Fu in MMA when the video had literally NOTHING to do with Kung Fu, you'll pardon me if I remain skeptical of your claim here.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Given that you viewed the video in the OP as an example of Kung Fu in MMA when the video had literally NOTHING to do with Kung Fu, you'll pardon me if I remain skeptical of your claim here.

The only thing I've claimed is that the technique is taught in Kung Fu as well as other fighting system. If you can't accept that, then that's a personal issue have and your lack of understanding that this technique is trained also a valid technique that has been taught in Kung Fu for centuries. It's not only taught in kung fu. Other systems also developed the same kick, some independently of kung fu. But it doesn't make it any less or any more kung fu. The fact that it's taught in kung fu makes it a kung fu technique. The fact that it is taught in TKD makes it a TKD technique. The fact that it's taught in karate makes it a karate technique.

So the title that I used isn't incorrect as it's stated. That side kick technique is what ended and won the fight. The technique is found in kung fu. It's just not only found in kung fu. Which is something I never claimed.

 

[jayoliver00]

I think what happened to Ryan Hall is especially telling. He couldn’t get fights because Dana hated his sport Bjj- based ground fighting style, and fighters hated dealing with his leg locking techniques.

I hate his style too and was glad he got KTFO. He also comes off very annoyingly disrespectful with his facial expressions after his win. People can say it's due to his autism, but where was that usual expression during the hand raise at the end when he lost? He's very talented and highly intelligent during his interviews, for sure; just not very likeable at all.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

He also comes off very annoyingly disrespectful with his facial expressions after his win.

Ryan Hall has Tourette's Syndrome. That causes him to have various facial tics which are not under conscious control.

 

[jayoliver00]

Remember, Tae Kwon Do kicks are the main technique used in MMA. I am even surprised I start to see spin hook kick and even hammer kicks in UFC.

No it's not. What MMA gym do you train at? Most MMA gyms adopt Muay Thai for their main striking style (esp for kicks) and it's been so for the past 20+ years now. There are some that are very successful with a Karate base, but not nearly as close in numbers as the MT's. Next would be Kung-Fu at a distance 3rd. TKD is probably near the bottom for being used in MMA. There are highly talented athletes that can incorporate TKD into their game to win, such as Izzy...but he didn't chose TKD to begin his KB, then MMA career with...his mommy put him into a strip mall TKD school due to bullies. I doubt she was some martial artist guru who knew the difference.

The first thing we teach TKD people who tries out MT is to not do that chamber & snap kicking. If they really don't believe me, then we spar to find out. Sometimes I do lose, but those were really big TKD boys.

 

[jayoliver00]

Ryan Hall has Tourette's Syndrome. That causes him to have various facial tics which are not under conscious control.

True, but I wasn't referring to those blinks and such; but specifically that smirk he does when he wins (with his face, shoulders, eyes, etc.).....that, "it was no big deal/easy work" smirk, every time he wins. Most people don't like this. And it wasn't involuntary as he didn't do it when he lost in the last fight.

I know 2 dudes with Asperger's in Boxing class (at the same time from like 15 years ago, and they both got clobbered on a lot b/c they're kinda a-holes. One of them (who wasn't that bad) told me that he could tel that the other guy had Aspergers and that he has the same. He had to get a therapist, etc. to adjust his rude behaviors.

It also turned them into good fighters too and started handling it, so Boxing worked.

 

[Alan0354]

It's about using the kick that works for you. Like you stated below


As a person who injures his back often doing non-martial arts stuff. I know how you feel about injuring your back. It takes me 6 months recovery when I screw up my back.

Let me change the subject since I think the thread pretty much play it out already, we are just repeating what we said!!

Actually because I was never that flexible, I knew even back at the time I should put a lot more effort on front kicks as it doesn't need much flexibility. So I did practice a lot on front kick, at least as much as side kick.

Front kick to me is actually much harder to master than side kick and the easiest is round kick in the long run. Sure, anyone can pick up the leg and kick forward and be a front kick, but to kick hard is much harder. Side kick is very hard to learn, but once you learn it, it's easier to master. Front kick is very very hard to master to me particular kicking with the ball of the foot. A lot of people actually pull the bag when kicking the bag( it's not what you call push kick). It's very hard to actually "kick" the bag hard. I think it's because there is very little hip torquing or pivoting to add to the kick.

Also it's hard to kick above the solaplex. The angle becomes so steep that the ball of the foot just slide up the heavy bag. It's hard to "stick into" the bag and penetrate deep. I still having problem doing that after all these years. Lately, I start kicking with the heel, that digs deeper and make a louder popping sound( now with the heel, not the bottom of the foot slapping the bag to make the sound).

Sadly, because of old age or maybe from kneeing the heavy bag, I injured my right knee that I talked about lately. I don't dare to practice that hard either. Damn, that old age. I have a lot of heart, just not body!!!!

 

[Hanzou]

The only thing I've claimed is that the technique is taught in Kung Fu as well as other fighting system. If you can't accept that, then that's a personal issue have and your lack of understanding that this technique is trained also a valid technique that has been taught in Kung Fu for centuries.

If it's a valid Kung Fu technique, why did you feel the need to ascribe it to a Muay Thai practitioner? Where's this Kung Fu MMA fighter you were talking about? What's their name? What Kung fu style do they practice?


Let's rewind back to the OP:

It's about time, but not really. I always knew this kick was bad news. Straight out of the Kung Fu Manual. Kung Fu gets a bad image, but there is some really dangerous end game type stuff in there. Sucks to have that knee blown out like that. Hopefully it's not career ending

Kung Fu gets a bad image because of nonsense like this. You guys say you don't care about MMA, but you clearly do because we get posts like this every so often. You guys say there's examples of Kung Fu in MMA, but we get crap like the OP where Kung Fu isn't even present. Now you're saying there's "some person" in MMA utilizing Kung Fu techniques in MMA, and you can't even remember their name.

Can I just get some straight answers without the constant bait and switch silliness? It would be refreshing.

 

[john_newman]

I didn't ask what he was trained in. I asked if the technique was found in kung fu.

Hanzou just wanted to say that the kick you're discussing has no connection with the Kung fu..

 

[JowGaWolf]

Front kick to me is actually much harder to master than side kick and the easiest is round kick in the long run. Sure, anyone can pick up the leg and kick forward and be a front kick, but to kick hard is much harder.

I enjoy the front kick tremendously. My opinion with the front kick is that one should learn to use it from the back leg and the front leg. I think if you only train it from the back leg then you'll have more difficulty in being able to use it. If you practice it from the front or the back then it's always ready to go no matter how that kicking leg is position.

Front kick is very very hard to master to me particular kicking with the ball of the foot.

Also it's hard to kick above the solaplex. The angle becomes so steep that the ball of the foot just slide up the heavy bag. It's hard to "stick into" the bag and penetrate deep. I still having problem doing that after all these years

I might have something that will help but I would have to see how you are feeding power into the bag. I personally don't target my front kicks above mid chest, my height. I can kick with the heel or with toe. If you can kick as high as your lower ribs then I think you have enough height to get a lot of use out of it. My general rule for kicking is to kick everything that comes within my effective kicking range. So If I want to kick someone in the head, I don't normally chase the target. But if someone slips a punch and their head dips into my kicking range then I'll be more than happy to kick the leg.

My arms are so sore now, that I'll be be starting up some of my lower body training. One of my training tools for kicking is one of those bendable drinking straws.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If it's a valid Kung Fu technique, why did you feel the need to ascribe it to a Muay Thai practitioner?

Because it's not a Kung Fu Only technique

 

[JowGaWolf]

If it's a valid Kung Fu technique, why did you feel the need to ascribe it to a Muay Thai practitioner? Where's this Kung Fu MMA fighter you were talking about? What's their name? What Kung fu style do they practice?


Let's rewind back to the OP:



Kung Fu gets a bad image because of nonsense like this. You guys say you don't care about MMA, but you clearly do because we get posts like this every so often. You guys say there's examples of Kung Fu in MMA, but we get crap like the OP where Kung Fu isn't even present. Now you're saying there's "some person" in MMA utilizing Kung Fu techniques in MMA, and you can't even remember their name.

Can I just get some straight answers without the constant bait and switch silliness? It would be refreshing.

The technique is found in Kung Fu. I didn't say the guy trained kung fu. But that same technique that is trained in Kung Fu is what won the fight.

Do you have to Train Kung Fu in order to learn that kick? No. Is that kick found and taught in Kung fu schools? Yes. Is that kick only found in kung fu schools.? No.

All answers are correct. Just like. Do you have to train Kung Fu to learn Kung Fu techniques? No. Just because you can use technique in a system doesn't mean you train in that system. I use a lot of techniques that are found in Hung Ga. Do I train hung ga? Nope.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hanzou just wanted to say that the kick you're discussing has no connection with the Kung fu..

That's what I'm getting. Personally I'm glad that many fighting use the same or similar techniques. I think that's a good thing. There have been times where someone is discussing karate techniques and I recognized it to be same or similar to kung fu technique that I'm having trouble understanding, the karate person has a better grasp on that technique than my kung fu instructors did. Because it's the same technique, I can use that knowledge to fill in the gaps. This would be impossible if that karate technique is fundamentally different than the one I train in kung fu.

 

[paitingman]

How much CMA have you trained?

CMA has as much take down defense as Judo, wrestling, and BJJ have.

As far as I know, BJJ is not interested in take down defense training.

It's much harder for me to stop double and single legs when the attacker can put their knee to the ground.
You've been wrestling for a long time, so how do you deal with this?

 

[Hanzou]

The technique is found in Kung Fu. I didn't say the guy trained kung fu. But that same technique that is trained in Kung Fu is what won the fight.

But Kung Fu doesn’t use the same training methodology that MT does. There’s so much going on with that technique application that it’s laughable to point to that and claim that it is a Kung Fu technique being applied. The stances aren’t the same, the conditioning isn’t the same, the training isn’t the same, etc.

It would be like someone doing a wrist lock in Bjj guard and some Aikidoka claiming that the Bjj exponent is now performing Aikido.

Do you have to Train Kung Fu in order to learn that kick? No. Is that kick found and taught in Kung fu schools? Yes. Is that kick only found in kung fu schools.? No.

All answers are correct. Just like. Do you have to train Kung Fu to learn Kung Fu techniques? No. Just because you can use technique in a system doesn't mean you train in that system. I use a lot of techniques that are found in Hung Ga. Do I train hung ga? Nope.

If all answers are correct, you wouldn’t have needed to use a Muay Thai practitioner for your example.

“Hey everyone, check out this MMA guy who has never done Kung Fu in his life do Kung Fu better than actual Kung Fu guys!”

This is basically what you’re saying.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If it's a valid Kung Fu technique, why did you feel the need to ascribe it to a Muay Thai practitioner? Where's this Kung Fu MMA fighter you were talking about? What's their name? What Kung fu style do they practice?


Let's rewind back to the OP:



Kung Fu gets a bad image because of nonsense like this. You guys say you don't care about MMA, but you clearly do because we get posts like this every so often. You guys say there's examples of Kung Fu in MMA, but we get crap like the OP where Kung Fu isn't even present. Now you're saying there's "some person" in MMA utilizing Kung Fu techniques in MMA, and you can't even remember their name.

Can I just get some straight answers without the constant bait and switch silliness? It would be refreshing.

They reason I don't remember the name is because I focus on the techniques being use. I explained that already before you responded that a simple answer would do.

It's much harder for me to stop double and single legs when the attacker can put their knee to the ground.
You've been wrestling for a long time, so how do you deal with this?

I factor this in when I'm on different surfaces. I'll never forget seeing a video 15 years ago of a school fight and the BJJ kid moved from the pavement to the grass and the other guy followed. I thought that was really stupid as I knew there was some advantages to being on the concrete. Once on the grass the grappler could make use of sliding entries. Lol

 

[Hanzou]

They reason I don't remember the name is because I focus on the techniques being use. I explained that already before you responded that a simple answer would do.

Mmmhmm....

Given your statements thus far, wouldn't you agree that Muay Thai has done a better job at teaching people to fight than general Kung Fu? In other words, if the goal is to learn how to fight, wouldn't it be better for someone to go to a Muay Thai gym than a Kung Fu kwoon?