Kung fu in MMA Wins

[Steve]

People claim this as "Kung Fu" because deep down they realize that it's problematic that Kung fu is pretty much absent from MMA. Despite decades of believing otherwise, the MMA "fad" has yet to subside, and is slowly eating away at traditional martial arts.

I'm actually surprised there isn't more san shou crossover. Cung Le started in MMA too late in his career to make a huge impact, but he certainly earned a spot in the elite ranks. And san shou, in my opinion, demonstrates that kung fu is largely a victim of its training model.

@JowGaWolf would seem to be an example of someone who can modify the training model and make the style practical, as well.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Seriously folks...

The fact that this has happened a grand total of one time over 26 years and hundreds of thousands of attempts is hardly a sparkling review for the efficacy of the technique.

This is a unicorn.

But it is happening more now than before. Big wheel punches, oblique kicks. As fighters are getting used to the common techniques, we start to see them look for new techniques that people aren't used to dealing with. Nothing unicorn about it.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Seriously folks...

The fact that this has happened a grand total of one time over 26 years and hundreds of thousands of attempts is hardly a sparkling review for the efficacy of the technique.

This is a unicorn.

But it is happening more now than before. Big wheel punches, oblique kicks. As fighters are getting used to the common techniques, we start to see them look for new techniques that people aren't used to dealing with. Nothing unicorn about it.

The technique has been used plenty in MMA and has proven effective. Heck, it's one of the classic Gracie jiu-jitsu techniques that was used back at the dawn of MMA. I was teaching it in my BJJ class just last week.

What's unusual is getting a serious injury as a result. Usually it just works to stop an opponent's advance, inflict some pain, and get the opponent worried about defending their low line. The potential for injury is there, but it generally only happens when the opponent's leg is planted the wrong way to receive the kick.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm actually surprised there isn't more san shou crossover. Cung Le started in MMA too late in his career to make a huge impact, but he certainly earned a spot in the elite ranks. And san shou, in my opinion, demonstrates that kung fu is largely a victim of its training model.

@JowGaWolf would seem to be an example of someone who can modify the training model and make the style practical, as well.

BJJ took a strong hold for a long time. The stand up game came back once fighters became more successful in escaping the grappling submission attempt. They do a much better job with staying off the ground.

I think we will see San shou crossover occur with the increased striking that we see. At least I hope we see it. I'm with you about Cung Le. Bad timing as he entered at the end of his fighting career. It appeared to be more of."yeah I can do this" and less "I'm going to dominate MMA" He didn't have much of a challenge and MMA was that next level for him. He did it and was satisfied.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What's unusual is getting a serious injury as a result. Usually it just works to stop an opponent's advance, inflict some pain, and get the opponent worried about defending their low line.

I was never taught that it was used to kick just used to keep distance. People look at the front kick the same way as just something to keep distance. In Jow ga kung side kicks to the knee were always taught from the understanding that you are trying to destroy the knee.

This doesn't mean you can't use it to keep distance. But in self-defense a stranger or enemy attacking you blow that knee out. Once it's gone your attacker has no ability to attack you, unless it's with a gun.

But that's the same mindset that says hitting someone with a brick or chair is acceptable.

 

[Alan0354]

Sorry, we have side kicks and roundhouse kicks. Apparently this is simply outside your realm of experience.

Then you should complain to Olympic comity. Telling them TKD does not represent their specialize kick. That your style do that two. Then let the historians find out the truth.

Those kind of kicks are the hallmark for TKD, that's the reason THEY are the one that is being recognized. You can claim whatever you want to claim, But TKD has schools AROUND THE WORLD.

Ha ha, maybe they manage to fool the world that those are their signature kicks. Maybe they stole it from Kung Fu.

That's one thing, there is so so much BS from those kung fu community, and they keep getting the butts whoop. Sorry. I remember they talk and talk, they had competitions in Asia, DID MUY THAI WHOOP THEIR BUTTS.

 

[Alan0354]

BJJ took a strong hold for a long time. The stand up game came back once fighters became more successful in escaping the grappling submission attempt. They do a much better job with staying off the ground.

I think we will see San shou crossover occur with the increased striking that we see. At least I hope we see it. I'm with you about Cung Le. Bad timing as he entered at the end of his fighting career. It appeared to be more of."yeah I can do this" and less "I'm going to dominate MMA" He didn't have much of a challenge and MMA was that next level for him. He did it and was satisfied.

That's how the modern MA are, they learn from each other, they improve. NOT LIKE those kung fu. When kung fu got their butt handed to them, they make excuses " I don't want to use it as it's too deadly"!! " I don't want to use it because it's our secret". All the excuses and excuses.

You really need to live in Hong Kong and China to hear all the BS from those so called masters.

This is 21century, people actually open their eyes to learn what's work and what's BS. Like MMA, they put their ego aside, when they see something good, they learn it. That's why they call MMA, just pick the ones that work.........TKD kicks( yes TKD kicks, not chinese kicks), Boxing hands, Muy Thai elbows and knees, Gracie BJJ and wrestling. Nothing learning from monkey scratching their hand in the middle of the fight. Nothing wobbling around pretend to be drunk during the fight. Modern fighting arts cut out all those BS.

Martial Arts is the ART of kicking butts. You want grace and beauty, learn ballet.

 

[Alan0354]

Curious....how does one fight like MMA?

Watch UFC, they use boxing hands to punch, Muy Thai elbows and knee, TKD kicks and Gracie BJJ and wrestling for grappling and ground work. It can be chased back to the origin.

 

[Alan0354]

Sorry, we have side kicks and roundhouse kicks. Apparently this is simply outside your realm of experience.

Maybe in recent years, maybe they started to wise up and humble enough to start incorporate into their style after being butt kicked. Sure not from 50 years ago.

Maybe if you are an historian, get your proof, go challenge the Olympic commity and claim they should not call the TKD competition but whatever the name of your style. Proof you have the goods. SIMPLE.

Far as the rest of the world, those are TKD kicks.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong to learn from TKD because their kicks work and kicked a lot of butts.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm actually surprised there isn't more san shou crossover. Cung Le started in MMA too late in his career to make a huge impact, but he certainly earned a spot in the elite ranks. And san shou, in my opinion, demonstrates that kung fu is largely a victim of its training model.

@JowGaWolf would seem to be an example of someone who can modify the training model and make the style practical, as well.

the lack of ground fighting pretty much murders it in the crib in terms of crossover potential.

 

[Hanzou]

I didn't ask what he was trained in. I asked if the technique was found in kung fu.

You can’t say it’s a “Kung fu kick” if the guy using it isn’t using Kung Fu.

 

[drop bear]

People claim this as "Kung Fu" because deep down they realize that it's problematic that Kung fu is pretty much absent from MMA. Despite decades of believing otherwise, the MMA "fad" has yet to subside, and is slowly eating away at traditional martial arts.

It is going to hurt when people realise MMA does kung fu better.

 

[drop bear]

The technique has been used plenty in MMA and has proven effective. Heck, it's one of the classic Gracie jiu-jitsu techniques that was used back at the dawn of MMA. I was teaching it in my BJJ class just last week.

What's unusual is getting a serious injury as a result. Usually it just works to stop an opponent's advance, inflict some pain, and get the opponent worried about defending their low line. The potential for injury is there, but it generally only happens when the opponent's leg is planted the wrong way to receive the kick.

Which can also happen if you get round kicked and are twisting the wrong way.

 

[Alan0354]

I'm actually surprised there isn't more san shou crossover. Cung Le started in MMA too late in his career to make a huge impact, but he certainly earned a spot in the elite ranks. And san shou, in my opinion, demonstrates that kung fu is largely a victim of its training model.

@JowGaWolf would seem to be an example of someone who can modify the training model and make the style practical, as well.

Problem is philosophy of Kung fu is to COPY EXACTLY the original movement from hundreds of years back. They glorify copying rather than stop and think what works, what needs to improve. They spend so much time doing forms instead of san shou, they don't exactly concentrate on sparring. Even if they spar, they spar in their own confined form. Like Wing Chun spending so much time doing sticky hands with each other that doing sticky hands. But if they meet up with a boxer that nothing only punch fast, the their foot work is so good you cannot "STICK" to boxing hands and control the hands. BUT NO, they still spend hours practicing sticky hands.

This is space age, people record and analyze the opponents and improve their own technique rather blindly keep practicing their old ways. I remember before Royce Gracie fight with Matt Huges, they show Gracie still practicing arm bar on the ground before the fight, but then that was over 10 years after UFC started, people studied BJJ. Matt Huges literally flatten Gracie and ground and pound until referee stopped the fight. This is a constant evolving game. You are on top one day, you get your butt hand it to you the next day. Huges was eliminated just a few months later and never return. Things are moving at light speed now.

 

[jayoliver00]

The technique has been used plenty in MMA and has proven effective. Heck, it's one of the classic Gracie jiu-jitsu techniques that was used back at the dawn of MMA. I was teaching it in my BJJ class just last week.

OMG, that's right. Royce was spamming that low sidekick like crazy; mostly as feints to get in for the clinch.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was never taught that it was used to kick just used to keep distance. People look at the front kick the same way as just something to keep distance. In Jow ga kung side kicks to the knee were always taught from the understanding that you are trying to destroy the knee.

This doesn't mean you can't use it to keep distance. But in self-defense a stranger or enemy attacking you blow that knee out. Once it's gone your attacker has no ability to attack you, unless it's with a gun.

But that's the same mindset that says hitting someone with a brick or chair is acceptable.

I would be willing to bet that BJJ from the perspective of a street fight sees it the same way. Destroy the knee so you don't have to take it to the ground. It's a quicker way to win a fight. It's easier to do it against an attacking stranger than some one you are on good terms with. A Tony that I know would not get the same fight that I would give to a Tony I don’t know.

Not saying I would win. Just saying one has a bond and the other doesn't. Somewhere in the US last night. Someone got beaten up and or killed no one cares in the same light if someone mentioned that someone from this forum was beaten up. Not bad nor Good. It's just the way our minds process things. with exceptions of course.

 

[jayoliver00]

BJJ took a strong hold for a long time. The stand up game came back once fighters became more successful in escaping the grappling submission attempt. They do a much better job with staying off the ground.

It was BJJ domination for a little while but then the Wrestlers started to take the reign. Maurice Smith was the one who turned it around for the Strikers. But Wrestling & BJJ still held it, just not as dominant. Then the Senate investigations, leading to many more rules such as time limits => resetting to standup, which the Gracies greatly protested.

But IMO, it was Dana White's edict/nudge that he wanted to see more exciting fights; translated to, more standup striking and less "human blankets". So if you were a Human Blanket stylist, ie. Demian Maia, you'd get less fights and less $$$. Many of the BJJ & Wrestlers adjusted and trained more striking, ie. Colby Covington, who was super boring but now, a lot of striking and antics.

I think we will see San shou crossover occur with the increased striking that we see. At least I hope we see it. I'm with you about Cung Le. Bad timing as he entered at the end of his fighting career. It appeared to be more of."yeah I can do this" and less "I'm going to dominate MMA" He didn't have much of a challenge and MMA was that next level for him. He did it and was satisfied.

I'm a big fan of Cung Le, but I thought the last few of his fights, there were backroom deals to not take him down to keep it exciting. One of the dudes he beat was a big time wrestler, yet didn't try to TD him once. It's been a long time, but I recall it was a White dude with platinum dyed hair.

Also, if you look at Cung Le's training, his main achievements in high school was Wrestling. Before that, he was a little kid in a strip mall TKD school. He really didn't train too much Kung-Fu that I could find. I see him training more Muay Thai than KF, esp. with Arjan Chai. He fought in Sanda/Sanshou because in NorCal, there's a ton of Asians, esp. Viets and Kung-Fu is big among Viets, which meant more Sanda type, big tournaments. So to become famous, a fighter would fight Sanda at a stadium, rather than TKD or Karate at a high school for a plastic trophy. Muay Thai wasn't even popular yet, back then.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Those kind of kicks are the hallmark for TKD, that's the reason THEY are the one that is being recognized. You can claim whatever you want to claim, But TKD has schools AROUND THE WORLD.

What your system is known for does not void what your system trains. Jow Ga is known for their lion dance. Does that eans everything else they train is void?

TKD is known for kicks. Does that mean the jabs the train are void?

It is going to hurt when people realise MMA does kung fu better.

Doesn't hurt me. Maybe it will hurt some of their Sifu's with Big Ego's. Sort of like saying kung fu from western countries are more application focused than kung fu in China. There are Lei Tai fights each year in Baltimore, MD with people using kung fu. What's the Chinese equivalent? I don't know.

 

[Hanzou]

It was BJJ domination for a little while but then the Wrestlers started to take the reign. Maurice Smith was the one who turned it around for the Strikers. But Wrestling & BJJ still held it, just not as dominant. Then the Senate investigations, leading to many more rules such as time limits => resetting to standup, which the Gracies greatly protested.

But IMO, it was Dana White's edict/nudge that he wanted to see more exciting fights; translated to, more standup striking and less "human blankets". So if you were a Human Blanket stylist, ie. Demian Maia, you'd get less fights and less $$$. Many of the BJJ & Wrestlers adjusted and trained more striking, ie. Colby Covington, who was super boring but now, a lot of striking and antics.

I think what happened to Ryan Hall is especially telling. He couldn’t get fights because Dana hated his sport Bjj- based ground fighting style, and fighters hated dealing with his leg locking techniques.

 

[Flying Crane]

Then you should complain to Olympic comity. Telling them TKD does not represent their specialize kick. That your style do that two. Then let the historians find out the truth.

Those kind of kicks are the hallmark for TKD, that's the reason THEY are the one that is being recognized. You can claim whatever you want to claim, But TKD has schools AROUND THE WORLD.

Ha ha, maybe they manage to fool the world that those are their signature kicks. Maybe they stole it from Kung Fu.

That's one thing, there is so so much BS from those kung fu community, and they keep getting the butts whoop. Sorry. I remember they talk and talk, they had competitions in Asia, DID MUY THAI WHOOP THEIR BUTTS.

What are you going on about? I never claimed TKD does not have these kicks. I only corrected your claim that kung fu does not. We do.