KRAV MAGA TRAINING • That's why the Street is different from your Dojo

[elder999]

It is Israeli, the name itself is Hebrew. It's not just for spec forces. Many non Israelis use it to make loads of money teaching it all around the world. There is also a fair bit of bickering over who has the best 'lineage'.

And, more to the point, and what I've always liked about it-it's designed for a country where basically the "army" is the ENTIRE POPULACE. It's formulated for the person who isn't a full time warrior, soldier or martial-artist.

I have been told in the past that the IDF version is not taught outside the military. That right? I.E. any different.

When I was first exposed to it, back in NY, back in the early 80's, the IDF version was pretty much all that was available in the U.S.-I don't know enough about the history of "other versions," but I've seen enough of them to know that there are some that are worth something, and some that are worth staying away from........

 

[Transk53]

When I was first exposed to it, back in NY, back in the early 80's, the IDF version was pretty much all that was available in the U.S.-I don't know enough about the history of "other versions," but I've seen enough of them to know that there are some that are worth something, and some that are worth staying away from........

One of my old (as in not here any more) was in the French Foreign Legion. While there, he was exposed to Krav which was the IDF version. Basically, he said that IDF Krav was only taught to serving rankers and officers, not the civilians. He also said the the Isralies only exported a slimmed down version. What that means I do not know, I can only guess that certain techniques were withdrawn from the curriculum. A full fat and lite thing here.

 

[K-man]

Awareness. Is really difficult in a fight. If you concentrate on your surroundings you cant focus as well on the guy in front of you hitting you.

True, which is why you need to train for it.

you really cant do both at once. You have to switch between one and the other and it is a compromise.

Not the case if you can keep peripheral vision. Again there are techniques that help with that.

so you have to be positioned so that you are not relying on awareness as much.

As I pointed out in my earlier post.

the difference between being in a circle of 10 guys and learning 360 degrees of defence.

and just getting out of that circle.

Sometimes not all that easy, which is why we train in the circle and also getting out of that circle.

If i run hard in a fight throwing superman punches at everybody You have to run harder to catch me and hit me.

but if I screw it up........

I won't be chasing you.

in that you have to win the fight you are in. You may have to take the guy to the ground and keep him there because you are getting bashed.

then you may choose side control or even fight from guard because there is no way you can let this dude back up.

That might be the case in your bouncing job but nothing to do with me on the street. I have no desire to go to the ground with anyone and if I do get him down, I certainly won't be trying to get him back up.

 

[drop bear]

True, which is why you need to train for it.

Not the case if you can keep peripheral vision. Again there are techniques that help with that.


As I pointed out in my earlier post.

Sometimes not all that easy, which is why we train in the circle and also getting out of that circle.

I won't be chasing you.

That might be the case in your bouncing job but nothing to do with me on the street. I have no desire to go to the ground with anyone and if I do get him down, I certainly won't be trying to get him back up.

training is one thing. But it is different outside the dojo. Have you tried that peripheral vision stuff in fights?

for me it kind of works and kind of doesn't. So if i am running in from the sidelines choosing which target to go for. Then the peripheral vision factors in. But if i am engaged with someone i am not exposing my head that much by looking around.

and even then if i am getting wailed on i am better off covering up. Creating some distance then applying awareness. You just cannot hope to stay in that position and think you will defend to any degree.

i don't agree with you as to whether or not you have a desire to do whatever. I believe you need the tools in the toolbox to make a decision at the time.

so if you are convinced you never need to hold a person down or chase a person down. Good luck to you. I would still be prepared for that eventually.

 

[Tez3]

training is one thing. But it is different outside the dojo. Have you tried that peripheral vision stuff in fights?

for me it kind of works and kind of doesn't. So if i am running in from the sidelines choosing which target to go for. Then the peripheral vision factors in. But if i am engaged with someone i am not exposing my head that much by looking around.

and even then if i am getting wailed on i am better off covering up. Creating some distance then applying awareness. You just cannot hope to stay in that position and think you will defend to any degree.

i don't agree with you as to whether or not you have a desire to do whatever. I believe you need the tools in the toolbox to make a decision at the time.

so if you are convinced you never need to hold a person down or chase a person down. Good luck to you. I would still be prepared for that eventually.

K-man will correct me if I'm wrong but he didn't say he would never need to hold a person down to chase them down, he said he had no desire to, a totally different kettle of fish. I'm sure if he felt he needed to he would be able to perfectly well, the tools are there whether they are deployed or not. Not having the desire to do something doesn't mean one doesn't have the capability to do it.

This running in from the sidelines thing? that can be very iffy from a number of points. It can for one thing be seen as an offensive move by the law, you would need to be sure of the circumstances and your legal standing.
'Applying awareness'? an odd way of expressing it.

 

[drop bear]

K-man will correct me if I'm wrong but he didn't say he would never need to hold a person down to chase them down, he said he had no desire to, a totally different kettle of fish. I'm sure if he felt he needed to he would be able to perfectly well, the tools are there whether they are deployed or not. Not having the desire to do something doesn't mean one doesn't have the capability to do it.

This running in from the sidelines thing? that can be very iffy from a number of points. It can for one thing be seen as an offensive move by the law, you would need to be sure of the circumstances and your legal standing.
'Applying awareness'? an odd way of expressing it.

well if we are speaking for k man i am going to suggest he will never find a reason to engage in prolonged groundwork unless forced there by the guy he is fighting. And this will be because he thinks fights will happen in a certain way rather than an unpredictable way.

the whole umbrella of fighting outside the dojo can be iffy in a legal sense.

applying awareness sounds right as i will be switching it on and off. If i am engaged in a toe to toe with some guy. I find i don't have the time and space to do much scanning of the room. But if there is a break in the action then i might have a chance for a look around.

 

[Tez3]

well if we are speaking for k man i am going to suggest he will never find a reason to engage in prolonged groundwork unless forced there by the guy he is fighting. And this will be because he thinks fights will happen in a certain way rather than an unpredictable way.

the whole umbrella of fighting outside the dojo can be iffy in a legal sense.

applying awareness sounds right as i will be switching it on and off. If i am engaged in a toe to toe with some guy. I find i don't have the time and space to do much scanning of the room. But if there is a break in the action then i might have a chance for a look around.

Well I'll put it this way, I would trust K-man in a fight to watch my back more than I'd trust you simply because I find your modus operandi in a fight or potential fight situation dangerous.
I'm likely quite honestly to have been in more situations over the years than either of you and I don't want someone who is a maverick beside me in those situations. I think you sound more like a brawler than someone who has trained any sort of self defence/martial arts.

 

[drop bear]

Well I'll put it this way, I would trust K-man in a fight to watch my back more than I'd trust you simply because I find your modus operandi in a fight or potential fight situation dangerous.
I'm likely quite honestly to have been in more situations over the years than either of you and I don't want someone who is a maverick beside me in those situations. I think you sound more like a brawler than someone who has trained any sort of self defence/martial arts.

what has that to do with anything?

and i am more val Kilmer than tom cruise.

 

[Tez3]

what has that to do with anything?

and i am more val Kilmer than tom cruise.

Really? that's all you can come up with? If you can't see there's nought more to be said.

 

[drop bear]

Really? that's all you can come up with? If you can't see there's nought more to be said.

that you would prefer k man by your side When you are in the danger zone?

 

[Tez3]

'danger zone'? I like people who are with me when we are in the 'danger zone' ( a film cliché if ever I heard one) to be calm and aware and not wade in thinking they are a Ninja Turtle.

 

[Transk53]

A bouncer does not fight on the door, just controls it k-man. In fact, these days we are door staff and don't drag knuckles. The above content is suggestive.

 

[K-man]

training is one thing. But it is different outside the dojo. Have you tried that peripheral vision stuff in fights?

I have had several instances where I had one person under restraint with up to five or six of their mates on hand. Yes, I was certainly aware of where they were and their demeanour.

for me it kind of works and kind of doesn't. So if i am running in from the sidelines choosing which target to go for. Then the peripheral vision factors in. But if i am engaged with someone i am not exposing my head that much by looking around.

I have never had the need to do that. Not to say the situation could never occur but for me it is an unlikely scenario.

and even then if i am getting wailed on i am better off covering up. Creating some distance then applying awareness. You just cannot hope to stay in that position and think you will defend to any degree.

I can agree with what you are saying, but again, a situation I am not likely to encounter.

i don't agree with you as to whether or not you have a desire to do whatever. I believe you need the tools in the toolbox to make a decision at the time.

Exactly what I teach. You must recognise and use what you have. If you are on the ground you have to fight on the ground until you can get up. I have only had to do that once.

so if you are convinced you never need to hold a person down or chase a person down. Good luck to you. I would still be prepared for that eventually.

In the past, and when I was a bit younger, I used to chase and catch people. But, I wasn't chasing them to fight them, just restrain them. I cannot imagine many scenarios now where I would need to do that again and definitely I wouldn't be chasing them for a fight.

 

[K-man]

well if we are speaking for k man i am going to suggest he will never find a reason to engage in prolonged groundwork unless forced there by the guy he is fighting. And this will be because he thinks fights will happen in a certain way rather than an unpredictable way.

Your first sentence is 100% correct. Your second is wrong by the same percentage. If you had been in my Krav class last night you might have heard me say "When you have someone standing in front of you, you cannot pre plan what you are going to do. You watch the body language and react instinctively. Then you work from the position you are in with what ever opportunities you have been offered." I believe that's pretty close to what you are saying.

the whole umbrella of fighting outside the dojo can be iffy in a legal sense.

So true, which is why I remind my guys of that a dozen or more times every night.

 

[K-man]

A bouncer does not fight on the door, just controls it k-man. In fact, these days we are door staff and don't drag knuckles. The above content is suggestive.

Mmm! Where I come from bouncers also work inside removing patrons who are no longer welcome. As to the second part, I'm not sure what I have posted that gave you that impression. Perhaps you could elaborate.

 

[ballen0351]

training is one thing. But it is different outside the dojo. Have you tried that peripheral vision stuff in fights?

Yes and in domestics, and in homicide scenes, and in SWAT raids and in undercover work where I was always worried about being robbed or killed. So yes and it can be taught.

for me it kind of works and kind of doesn't. So if i am running in from the sidelines choosing which target to go for. Then the peripheral vision factors in. But if i am engaged with someone i am not exposing my head that much by looking around.

You don't need to "look around" that's the point of peripheral vision.

and even then if i am getting wailed on i am better off covering up. Creating some distance then applying awareness. You just cannot hope to stay in that position and think you will defend to any degree.

One on one sure. 3 or 4 or 10 on 1 covering up will get your head smashed in. And depending in where you are there may not be any distance available to create. So now you better start using better training, strengh, stamina, and stay calm. Running around like a crazy man won't do much

i don't agree with you as to whether or not you have a desire to do whatever. I believe you need the tools in the toolbox to make a decision at the time.

I agree you always need a plan B, C, D ,E and be willing to jump from A to D then back to B.

 

[drop bear]

'danger zone'? I like people who are with me when we are in the 'danger zone' ( a film cliché if ever I heard one) to be calm and aware and not wade in thinking they are a Ninja Turtle.

so you would prefer them to act like an ice man and not a goose.

 

[drop bear]

Yes and in domestics, and in homicide scenes, and in SWAT raids and in undercover work where I was always worried about being robbed or killed. So yes and it can be taught.

You don't need to "look around" that's the point of peripheral vision.


One on one sure. 3 or 4 or 10 on 1 covering up will get your head smashed in. And depending in where you are there may not be any distance available to create. So now you better start using better training, strengh, stamina, and stay calm. Running around like a crazy man won't do much

i am sure it can be taught. But the question was has k man used what he has been taught?

unless you taught him.

i mean that is what you do right. Train. Test. Train some more.

removing your focus from the job at hand. By concentrating on external threats Increases the risk of not being able to do that job. You don't get to do both at once effectively.

3,4, 10 on one you are suggesting there is any likelihood you could stand and trade? You wouldn't cover and move?
i don't see how you achieve that. Regardless how much better training you have.

 

[Hanzou]

Agreed!
I like to say, "when it comes to ground fighting the closest I want to be to the ground is my knee on the bad guy's belly."
Doesn't always happen but that is where I'd prefer to be.

Interestingly, we were taught knee on belly and knee on sternum.

Knee on sternum sucks btw.

 

[drop bear]

Your first sentence is 100% correct. Your second is wrong by the same percentage. If you had been in my Krav class last night you might have heard me say "When you have someone standing in front of you, you cannot pre plan what you are going to do. You watch the body language and react instinctively. Then you work from the position you are in with what ever opportunities you have been offered." I believe that's pretty close to what you are saying.

So true, which is why I remind my guys of that a dozen or more times every night.

i have not heard a mabye from you in this before. You don't run. You don't ground work you infight and never monkey dance.

and the running thing is a bit of a tangent. It stops you getting sniper punched under the right circumstances. So if you don't run after me all the better. I am creating a bit of space.

you are putting a lot of restrictions out there. And making them black and white occurrences as to what will happen.