KRAV MAGA TRAINING • That's why the Street is different from your Dojo

[drop bear]

Awareness isn't a real thing. Unless it is backed up with proven tactics.

so if you are caught in the middle of a fight. All the peripheral in the world wont save you. You are better off recognizing that. And moving to a better position.

eg. Breaking up a fight. You don't stand between people trying to push them apart.

 

[K-man]

a few reasons.

generally because you are fighting for space in a gym and cant go out and scrap properly.

because there is this idea that all street fighting is in fighting.

because it is technically high risk. With all the running around.

how does that awareness work for you when you fight people? I cant pull it off in real fights all that well. To much going on.

instead i position to where is is less of a risk.

Mate, I teach this stuff. I am sorry that I was being facetious but I have just been insulted again on another thread and I was a bit testy with you telling me my job.

OK. But, I'm confused as to what you are saying here.

What is you are fighting for space in the gym? We don't have a gym. I have a huge dojo space and small numbers. When we do multiple attacks we use different scenarios, some of which you are the only one on the ground, some you are surrounded. In all cases you have to keep relaxed as you are being hit and you have to keep moving.

I'm assuming you mean 'infighting'. If that is the case then any fight I am in will be infighting. If someone wants to fight me they will come into my space. I will not be engaging in a monkey dance. If the fight goes to the ground, I don't want to stay there.

What do you mean by "technically high risk"?

Awareness is something that I stress at all stages of training. I gave one example of a training aid I employ in my earlier post. That and stressing peripheral vision, taking time to glance around, keep moving your feet so that you are not stuck facing one direction, keeping a wall behind you etc.

 

[Danny T]

More seriously, this is why I'm a big advocate of knee mount if you have to take someone down in a fight. It's much easier to keep an eye on the surroundings and disengage if necessary from top of knee mount than from any other ground position.

Agreed!
I like to say, "when it comes to ground fighting the closest I want to be to the ground is my knee on the bad guy's belly."
Doesn't always happen but that is where I'd prefer to be.

 

[drop bear]

Mate, I teach this stuff. I am sorry that I was being facetious but I have just been insulted again on another thread and I was a bit testy with you telling me my job.

OK. But, I'm confused as to what you are saying here.

What is you are fighting for space in the gym? We don't have a gym. I have a huge dojo space and small numbers. When we do multiple attacks we use different scenarios, some of which you are the only one on the ground, some you are surrounded. In all cases you have to keep relaxed as you are being hit and you have to keep moving.

I'm assuming you mean 'infighting'. If that is the case then any fight I am in will be infighting. If someone wants to fight me they will come into my space. I will not be engaging in a monkey dance. If the fight goes to the ground, I don't want to stay there.

What do you mean by "technically high risk"?

Awareness is something that I stress at all stages of training. I gave one example of a training aid I employ in my earlier post. That and stressing peripheral vision, taking time to glance around, keep moving your feet so that you are not stuck facing one direction, keeping a wall behind you etc.

a fight can occur over a huge distance especially if it is big and you are having running battles. It changes the dynamics.

if i can constantly run away it makes it really hard for you to apply stuff. Like hyenas on some sort of animal. They just nip at them untill they get exhausted. And then kill it. It is not the stand up fight people expect. Gym space usually determines you don't train like that.

i don't understand why you would do only one range or train for one style of attack. Monkey dance is one circumstance you may find yourself in against your will. Or even may be the most tactical choice.

running at someone and engaging them is risky. Standing still and crab walking towards them keeps you safer. But makes you a target for ambush attack.

i will do awareness as a new post

 

[Transk53]

running at someone and engaging them is risky. Standing still and crab walking towards them keeps you safer. But makes you a target for ambush attack.

No offence, but that seems a little contradictory to me.

 

[drop bear]

Awareness. Is really difficult in a fight. If you concentrate on your surroundings you cant focus as well on the guy in front of you hitting you.

you really cant do both at once. You have to switch between one and the other and it is a compromise.

now awareness does not work as well as it is sold. This coming from someone who does get ambushed. It is one of the least effective methods to counter it.

i thought i had good situational awareness untill i became a target.

so you have to be positioned so that you are not relying on awareness as much.

the difference between being in a circle of 10 guys and learning 360 degrees of defence.

and just getting out of that circle.

 

[drop bear]

No offence, but that seems a little contradictory to me.

it is a compromise where one risk may outweigh the other.

so it will be contradictory by definition.

 

[drop bear]

If i run hard in a fight throwing superman punches at everybody You have to run harder to catch me and hit me.

but if I screw it up........

 

[Transk53]

Yeah of course, that would be the leg it and damage what you can. But as you say, you get clipped once and your down. Better to run harder and find defensible ground IMHO

 

[drop bear]

Yeah of course, that would be the leg it and damage what you can. But as you say, you get clipped once and your down. Better to run harder and find defensible ground IMHO

then it becomes a tactical game of a running battle. Rather than anything practiced in a dojo.

(sort of. There are still elements that overlap)

 

[Transk53]

then it becomes a tactical game of a running battle. Rather than anything practiced in a dojo.

(sort of. There are still elements that overlap)

Indeed. As you say above, awareness is key and also tactical awareness of the situation. No amount of MA or SD training will help if you are cornered and in threat of being pushed down, or being pushed down. The group rushing you will be in the ascendency and if you have to leg it, do so. I guess you're MMA training would mitigate some of that, but for me no.

 

[drop bear]

Indeed. As you say above, awareness is key and also tactical awareness of the situation. No amount of MA or SD training will help if you are cornered and in threat of being pushed down, or being pushed down. The group rushing you will be in the ascendency and if you have to leg it, do so. I guess you're MMA training would mitigate some of that, but for me no.

see i still think awareness is kind of a non thing. Especially when used in as general a concept as it seems to get thrown around.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Awareness. Is really difficult in a fight. If you concentrate on your surroundings you cant focus as well on the guy in front of you hitting you.

you really cant do both at once. You have to switch between one and the other and it is a compromise.

now awareness does not work as well as it is sold. This coming from someone who does get ambushed. It is one of the least effective methods to counter it.

i thought i had good situational awareness untill i became a target.

so you have to be positioned so that you are not relying on awareness as much.

the difference between being in a circle of 10 guys and learning 360 degrees of defence.

and just getting out of that circle.

I pretty much agree with all of this, which is why I would say that real situational awareness is not the movie version where you can be engaged in a pitched battle with an opponent in front of you yet magically aware of the bad guy coming up to stab you in the back.

Real situational awareness includes the knowledge of all the things you just mentioned so that:

You only engage at close range with one opponent if you have no choice or you know there is no one else in the vicinity or you know you have backup to monitor your surroundings - and even then you don't engage longer than you have to.

You continually work to position yourself so as to make it hard for anyone to come up behind you.

You don't get so emotionally committed to beating the other guy that you forget your most important goal is to go home in one piece. (I've seen situations where one combatant knows other peoples are coming up, but he just doesn't care because he's so intent on smashing the other guy.)

You understand that trade-off between focusing on the guy in front of you and focusing on your surroundings and can switch the focus as demanded by the situation moment to moment.

You keep track of where you are in relationship to any exits or escape routes.

You choose tactics which allow you maximize mobility and field of vision (.i.e. knee mount instead of crossbody if the fight goes to the ground)

And so on ...

 

[drop bear]

I pretty much agree with all of this, which is why I would say that real situational awareness is not the movie version where you can be engaged in a pitched battle with an opponent in front of you yet magically aware of the bad guy coming up to stab you in the back.

Real situational awareness includes the knowledge of all the things you just mentioned so that:

You only engage at close range with one opponent if you have no choice or you know there is no one else in the vicinity or you know you have backup to monitor your surroundings - and even then you don't engage longer than you have to.

You continually work to position yourself so as to make it hard for anyone to come up behind you.

You don't get so emotionally committed to beating the other guy that you forget your most important goal is to go home in one piece. (I've seen situations where one combatant knows other peoples are coming up, but he just doesn't care because he's so intent on smashing the other guy.)

You understand that trade-off between focusing on the guy in front of you and focusing on your surroundings and can switch the focus as demanded by the situation moment to moment.

You keep track of where you are in relationship to any exits or escape routes.

You choose tactics which allow you maximize mobility and field of vision (.i.e. knee mount instead of crossbody if the fight goes to the ground)

And so on ...

yes.

and then we have to add an element to that.

in that you have to win the fight you are in. You may have to take the guy to the ground and keep him there because you are getting bashed.

then you may choose side control or even fight from guard because there is no way you can let this dude back up.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

yes.

and then we have to add an element to that.

in that you have to win the fight you are in. You may have to take the guy to the ground and keep him there because you are getting bashed.

then you may choose side control or even fight from guard because there is no way you can let this dude back up.

I would say you may have to win the fight you are in, depending on the situation. You are a professional being paid to take care of conflicts at the bar. I have the option to take off running as soon as I get a clear shot at the exit. I've got a wife with MS at home to take care of. She doesn't care whether I beat some guy at the bar, she just wants me home safe.

 

[Transk53]

see i still think awareness is kind of a non thing. Especially when used in as general a concept as it seems to get thrown around.

I tend to view as a personal thing, tied in with personal experience. Probably is a non thing and maybe should be called something else.

 

[drop bear]

I tend to view as a personal thing, tied in with personal experience. Probably is a non thing and maybe should be called something else.

depends how it is thrown around. "we train situational awareness" could mean anything really.

 

[Transk53]

depends how it is thrown around. "we train situational awareness" could mean anything really.

Yeah more of an umbrella term really. Over here door staff are getting training on spoting terrorists. Suppose as you say, what is thrown out there.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah more of an umbrella term really. Over here door staff are getting training on spoting terrorists. Suppose as you say, what is thrown out there.

i have done an anti terrorist course.

and i bet they will be told to be situationally aware as if it is some extra thing.

And they will be like thank you captain obvious.

 

[Transk53]

More than likely.