Kotegaeshi with a difference

[now disabled]

I get that. I have already stated that aikido seems to help some attributes;balance, movement, an understanding of how to lock up joints, etc.

I've just never seen evidence of anyone using aikido itself, ie anything close to how it is demoed, to beat a resisting opponent.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think all martial arts are about that, and that's not my be all end all criteria for martial arts. Many martial artists practice for health and fitness, to socialize, whatever. And that's just fine.

But when strong claims are made, the ones making them should be able to provide some sort of evidence when asked for it.

I mean, would you buy a car from a guy if he refused to start it up for you so you could make sure it actually drives?

You really do not get anything behind Aikido at all do you lol yet you keep saying all you do do you understand the principles etc ???

 

[now disabled]

Anywhere.

I mean, it's supposed to be a way to nonviolently put people away right? It should be easy to show it working.

and who told you that ?you do not get the meanings do you or the philosophy lol your hung up on all this love bit and you really don't get that bit at all lol

 

[Martial D]

Umm, actually, I have done

(Special case though, the engine was never going to be used and everything else was to be overhauled or rebuilt so it driving was utterly immaterial.)

This is more akin to finding a dead aikidoka and stripping off his Gi

 

[pdg]

This is more akin to finding a dead aikidoka and stripping off his Gi

Hey, if it works

 

[drop bear]

Well not really. If someone defends with strength and structure. You basically are not wrist locking them.

Then you have to fight to break their structure using either pressure or Aikido.

That is pretty much how every submission works.

There are are all these extra elements.

This is why timing is so important. And if you don't spar. I have no idea how you develop timing.

This is also why people wo don't spar always look so akward in drills. They just don't have that constant assesment of what the other guy is doing.

 

[drop bear]

Anywhere.

I mean, it's supposed to be a way to nonviolently put people away right? It should be easy to show it working.

No you are confusing Aikido with wrestling.

 

[Martial D]

No you are confusing Aikido with wrestling.

I find it hard to believe you have never been slammed on your head by a wrestler. I sure have, and let me tell you...its usually pretty darn violent.

Now jitz on the other hand..if you just get to a good position like the back or mounted crucifix and just dont finish you can give the other guy time to calm down and then go for a beer later

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No you are confusing Aikido with wrestling.

Should we category Aikido as one kind of wrestling art? It's not considered as a striking art and that's for sure.

 

[Martial D]

Should we category Aikido as one kind of wrestling art? It's not considered as a striking art and that's for sure.

Can you really do that if they don't actually resist against eachother? Maybe PRO Wrestling...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

slammed on your head by a wrestler.

The best finish move - head meets earth.

 

[drop bear]

Winning fights where?? In a sports environment, in a ring? I see no relation of your standards to any real martial art. You are probably looking for a sport, a game to play, so that's fine there are plenty around...
Boxing, a martial art?? Hmm, you are confused my friend...

Martial arts is supposed to be a game or a sport. That is what develops the correct skills, mental and physical to handle conflict.

Without the competitive aspect you will not gain a correct understanding of what you are doing.

A fight is a physical puzzle. And to solve that puzzle you are best equiped by having to have solved puzzles before. So that even if you get a completely unfamiliar problem to solve. You still have these problem solving skills.

If you dont have these skills then knowledge isn't as much help as people like to think.

Which is where people come unstuck generally.

 

[Martial D]

The best finish move - head meets earth.

I was thinking more like a double leg takedown slam or a body to body but ya...that looks painful too.

 

[Martial D]

Martial arts is supposed to be a game or a sport. That is what develops the correct skills, mental and physical to handle conflict.

Without the competitive aspect you will not gain a correct understanding of what you are doing.

A fight is a physical puzzle. And to solve that puzzle you are best equiped by having to have solved puzzles before. So that even if you get a completely unfamiliar problem to solve. You still have these problem solving skills.

If you dont have these skills then knowledge isn't as much help as people like to think.

Which is where people come unstuck generally.

Once you systematically disqualify any and all forms of evidence as valid, you can be comfortable in not needing to produce any. Young Earth Creationists love to do this too.

 

[drop bear]

totally get that

ok if I ever faced a person like yourself , firstly I'd back off (I won't use Aikido terms here ) and make sure I was out of range of your jab for instance and try my best to keep that until I could get you to commit as in start to throw , and even then I might not close not until I can in myself see the opportunity to enter ...it may not come and it may not work but that is how I would try let you commit so you are then giving me something ...also if I did achieve the entry then any atemi I would use would be to a part of the body where you were not as a boxer used to being hit ...I know that may sound dumb but going for a person like yourselfs jaw etc is pointless as I do not have the resources to take you that way ,,,where as going for your neck area or throat would make more sense or the traps or even the spinal column ...I dunno if that makes sense

The neck thing is a pretty desparate plan to rely on. It is a method certanly. But the reason boxers hit people in tye jaw is that is works really well. So you are banking on a less effective strike being more effective because I haven't trained to defend it as much.

To pull it off you need to be really slick at judo chopping the neck.

 

[Martial D]

The neck thing is a pretty desparate plan to rely on. It is a method certanly. But the reason boxers hit people in tye jaw is that is works really well. So you are banking on a less effective strike being more effective because I haven't trained to defend it as much.

To pull it off you need to be really slick at judo chopping the neck.

Unless you have your chin in the air there is no neck target. If the point of hitting the neck is because the opponent is a BOXER you're definitely not getting any neck.

 

[drop bear]

Once you systematically disqualify any and all forms of evidence as valid, you can be comfortable in not needing to produce any. Young Earth Creationists love to do this too.

Yeah the celestial T Cup.

Which is why the person who makes the statement needs to show evidence.

Now what that means is If I say Aikido doesn't work I am being technically incorrect.

If I say there is no evidence Aikido does work. Then that would be more factual.

Which is why combat sports have the better reputation. Because they just have the more consistant evidence.

 

[Martial D]

Yeah the celestial T Cup.

Which is why the person who makes the statement needs to show evidence.

Now what that means is If I say Aikido doesn't work I am being technically incorrect.

If I say there is no evidence Aikido does work. Then that would be more factual.

Which is why combat sports have the better reputation. Because they just have the more consistant evidence.

Yes, but there's rules. so none of it counts because rules.

So people who's martial arts rely on ball kicking and eye gouging have the real juice. Right?

The thing is afaik nothing in aikido is illegal in mma comp so im not sure why it doesn't count.

 

[drop bear]

Unless you have your chin in the air there is no neck target. If the point of hitting the neck is because the opponent is a BOXER you're definitely not getting any neck.

you might get over the top through the guard and you are working on the theory that the boxer may not recognise the movement quick enough to counter it.

But you want to be mindful that your own jaw is probably being attacked at the same time. So if you strike like a goober. With no timing or head movement you will probably get popped and loose the exchange anyway.

 

[Martial D]

you might get over the top through the guard and you are working on the theory that the boxer may not recognise the movement quick enough to counter it.

But you want to be mindful that your own jaw is probably being attacked at the same time. So if you strike like a goober. With no timing or head movement you will probably get popped and loose the exchange anyway.

LOL

I guess. Is Jackie Chan in this movie?

 

[drop bear]

Yes, but there's rules. so none of it counts because rules.

So people who's martial arts rely on ball kicking and eye gouging have the real juice. Right?

The thing is afaik nothing in aikido is illegal in mma comp so im not sure why it doesn't count.

Cant wristlock in MMA. You can in jits. Most do both.

And going street doesn't magically give you a free pass from having to know basic fighting fundimentals.