Knife Fighting Lies

[tmpierce]

" Statistics have shown that a majority of even those who call themselves professional MA generally choke given a match up of one man who has injured or killed people with a knife and people who have cut and been cut before."

So... I actually don't disagree with this point BUT have to ask, where does this statistic come from? I'm not aware of anybody out there track of knife fights (encounters, stabbings, name is not important call it what you want) and evaluating who freezes or not. Seems reasonable but reasonableness of thought does not a statistic make.

 

[Aiki Lee]

And on that note, who is considered a "professional" MAist? Anyone with a black belt, a professional ring or cage fighter?

 

[cpaul989]

This is very true. My karate instructor use to quote Miyagi from the original karate kid "The best defense, no be there". He would always tell us that when you were fighting with a knife you are going to get cut, its just a matter of where at and how bad.

 

[Nighthawk]

"Defanging the snake is something that is commonly taught at higher levels. Subtle and complex moves are drilled into the advanced students so they can either knock the knife out of their attacker's hands or carve the knife out of his hand.
There's just one problem with it, you have a snowball's chance in hell of making it work. The truth is these are what we call "green moves." They have very little to do with actual knife defense and very much to do with keeping the student involved in the system and paying money (which in the U.S. is green, ergo the term green move). Such moves rely on the attacker moving "just so" and thereby putting you in the perfect position to do the move.

The thing is even the older masters tell you that these moves are purely opportunity and chance. And yet, these moves are often over-emphasized at the expense of more effective altercation ending moves. In short, they train in elements as though they were the most important element or the highest degree of the art. Call me silly, but I feel that getting out alive is the best proof of skill, not how many subtle and complex moves you know."

Dear gods!! Is this true? Is this what other schools teach as self defense? This is so very correct! At our school, our mantra of self defense is "Keep it simple. Do proper technique. Get away fast." However, I do have to respectfully disagree with him about disarming techniques. The Vikings/Norse had some exceptionally effective disarming techniques. They were designed to be used opponents with a seax (a Norse short sword, about the same size a bowie knife) or an opponent with a sword. In fact, in armed combat, the fight often comes to grapples and throws, the weapons being discarded or stripped. I have been involved in various fights, both with sword and dirk (the Scottish short sword), where the fight has come down to grapples. It's extremely common. There are so many techniques, in the styles of every culture, that are designed to strip an opponent of a weapon, and the German and Scots techniques are not big, subtle, intricate moves designed to keep students in the classroom. They're quick, simple wrist grabs that hurt like hell! He says:

"...from having watched people who study so-called "blade arts" many of them have apparently taken it to mean allow yourself to be sliced up, making no effective defensive moves in order to try to get in one good hit. Apparently, if you nick him once to his twenty seven slashes, it is an acceptable exchange rate."

Y'know... The Norse and the Scots agree completely. As does Justin Sensei at my school. If someone comes at me with a knife, I'm using my damned feet!! You know why? Because I wear leather work boots, I'm quick with my feet, and I really want keep the knife going at my boots, as opposed to the rest of me. Of course, my Western martial arts training has been thoroughly integrated in my Eastern (which occasionally confuses people from both sides of the continent...) so I use a lot of those techniques as well. That is especially effective against people with no training. Training or no, controlling the center line is vital, and an opponent is untrained and all of a sudden I'm behind him... Well, game over, knife or no.

So I suppose I should give a little background on my experience here. I'm a member of a group called the Renaissance Scots Living History Association. At the various events we do, we set up a fight ring where we give live steel combat demonstrations, and have modified shinai. We have our Challenge A Scot deal. You pay $5 to fight one of us in a tournament- style round (meaning point are counted) and if you win, we pay you $20. The rules are agreed upon by the combatants- grappling or no, full contact or light contact, etc- and the fight is off! Last summer, I got to talking with a guy who does nothing but stage combat. He does those pretty Star Wars style twirls. I made light of it, mentioning how pretty, but useless they are. He got very offended and said he could use one to get away from me and cut me to ribbons. I asked him to show me. I hit him in both sides of his rib cage and slashed him across the back before he finished the turn, and this was a guy who was used to handling a blade! If you let me get behind you...

So... There we are. My ramblings on this subject... Good article!

 

[TKDTony2179]

I thought I would post this video here since I ran across it on youtube.

 

[Blindside]

"Defanging the snake is something that is commonly taught at higher levels. Subtle and complex moves are drilled into the advanced students so they can either knock the knife out of their attacker's hands or carve the knife out of his hand.
There's just one problem with it, you have a snowball's chance in hell of making it work. The truth is these are what we call "green moves." They have very little to do with actual knife defense and very much to do with keeping the student involved in the system and paying money (which in the U.S. is green, ergo the term green move). Such moves rely on the attacker moving "just so" and thereby putting you in the perfect position to do the move.

What do you consider either subtle or complex about many of the "defanging the snake" actions? What is subtle (or complex) about the idea of hitting the other guys hand/arm with your weapon so that he cannot hold his weapon any further?

 

[Nighthawk]

What do you consider either subtle or complex about many of the "defanging the snake" actions? What is subtle (or complex) about the idea of hitting the other guys hand/arm with your weapon so that he cannot hold his weapon any further?

I agree! That's why I singled this part out. In our school, we don't teach anything complicated or with a lot of subtlety. We teach techniques that are general enough to work in all circumstances and don't rely on the attacker doing specific things.