Knife Attack

[kenpo_cory]

Any opinions? I'd like to hear any and all.

http://www.nkka.freeserve.co.uk/media/combat_nov01.htm

 

[Kirk]

Hmm, chi energy is stored in our kidneys, didn't know that :shrug:

 

[Robbo]

Well.... I don't mean to be critical but....aren't the rules to follow when dealing with a weapon

1) divert
2) seize
3) control
4) disarm

He maybe diverts, can't really tell but since the knife is not in him I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But he doesn't aggresively check or control the knife arm throughout the whole technique. It also seems to me that he is somewhat advocating the one punch one kill mentality...

and then use our other hand to attack a Dim Mak point causing a K.O. at the very least.

How can you count on this KO?

I also wish he would use terms we could all understand none of this Dim Mak and Fa-Jing stuff.

before striking a major Dim-Mak point, again, preferably on the neck, face or head causing a knockout or even death.

Is this a little vaque or is it just me?

Ah..maybe I'm just having a bad day.

Rob

P.S. I know politics would be involved and you can't actively trash anybody if you want to maintain cordial relationships but it would very interesting to see what GD7 thinks about this write-up.

 

[kenpo_cory]

Yeah, I have some doubts about the effectiveness of his technique myself. That's why I posted this article and asked for some opinions. But then again, what do I know?

 

[Jay Bell]

Article - Sillyness

There aren't really "rules" of dealing with knives. One of the most important ideas though is to concern yourself with controlling the attacker himself, not the tool that he is attempting to cut you with.

The aggressive type of going-for-the-knife movements will more then likely end up with you bleeding. In fighting situations, aggressive grabs and lunges towards an opponent creates a "fight" response. If you want to be effective at using and working with knives and defense thereof, learn to move smoothly, not rigid or tense.

From Article:

The attacker will have to be in a vicious, aggressive frame of mind to contemplate using a knife, we therefore have to get into survival mode if we are to stand any chance of escaping with our lives.

This is absolute nonsense. This might be true in the sense that someone is untrained in working and dealing with a knife. I've seen and met people that use knives more naturally then winking their eyes....and there isn't an vicious or aggressive bone in their body during.

I frankly enjoy the amount of experiance and knowledge this person must have had to write such an article. Bravo! :shrug:

 

[Robbo]

There aren't really "rules" of dealing with knives

Ok, Ok, I should have said princepals. There are no rules in Kenpo just concepts, ideas, & principals.

The aggressive type of going-for-the-knife movements will more then likely end up with you bleeding.

Unfortunatly, all of our knife defenses are on the premise of the attack coming from a certain direction, either roundhouse, thrust, downward, etc. I'm sure that while attacking the person with the knife the concepts may be done differently, but if you are on the receiving end of a knife strike I stand by my original post.

1) divert (unless you want to get tagged)
2) seize (unless you want to get tagged again)
3) control (be aware of where the weapon is before you counter, you could hit and cause a reaction that gets you tagged again)
4) disarm (never leave a weapon with your opponent so he can use it on you again)

Now granted I've never been in a knife fight and maybe those who have can correct me but the above makes pretty good sense to me.

One last point, because they are listed in 4 seperate steps it might give the illusion that it takes a long time to do this, in reality the defense and the attacks are one and the same. You could also counter while you diverted, compounding works well if while you seize you can hit at the same time, etc, etc. This is fairly sophisticated stuff, but if you are practising knife techniques with any hope of pulling them off then I would assume many years of experiance.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Jay Bell]

ahhh..I see what you mean now. When I first read your original post, I was thinking you meant 'Step 1....Step 2' and so on.

 

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by Jay Bell

Article - Sillyness

There aren't really "rules" of dealing with knives. One of the most important ideas though is to concern yourself with controlling the attacker himself, not the tool that he is attempting to cut you with.

This is something my instructor points out whenever we do any weapons training. Don't concentrate so much on the knife that you lose focus of what the person holding the knife is doing. Also never stick your fingers and hands out to try and fight off the knife, those will be the first to get cut off.


:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Looking at the pictures, I'd be very concerned in B. that the knife would circle up to the defender's face. Perhaps his right hand would block it, or perhaps his arm or face would be cut. In C. especially I don't know why he isn't controlling the hand; even if he gets the eye jab inhe may be cut as the attacker's knife comes up with his hands to his injured eyes.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by arnisador

Looking at the pictures, I'd be very concerned in B. that the knife would circle up to the defender's face. Perhaps his right hand would block it, or perhaps his arm or face would be cut. In C. especially I don't know why he isn't controlling the hand; even if he gets the eye jab inhe may be cut as the attacker's knife comes up with his hands to his injured eyes.

No matter the claim, logic and principles are not being used. I agree- the sequence looks retarded- I know what tek he is trying- must've learned it from a book or equally bad video. The taletell signs are: Loss of contact- failure to sieze,control, disarm- all this "stuff" works with the other concepts etc. His thought process is mechanical- :soapbox:

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

I don't care what this guy thinks he's doing, but a disarm it's NOT. He's gonna get poked faster than a frog at gumbo time in Lousiana.


Have a great Kenpo day


Clyde

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo

I don't care what this guy thinks he's doing, but a disarm it's NOT. He's gonna get poked faster than a frog at gumbo time in Lousiana.

Or possibly he's so fast that he won't get hurt, but students he teaches, who don't have those above-average attributes, wouldn't be learning a sound technique (if I understand the technique correctly--a necessary caveat when only viewing it in pictures).

 

[Jay Bell]

I'd like to go through the pics one by one...so we can discuss the breakdown a bit more.

In the first pic, we see absolutely no control over the opponent. Let's say for example, though, that he was closing the distance moving to the outside, using his left elbow to check the stabbing arm (funny...I've never seen ANYONE use a knife so upright and lazily). Notice that the opponent's body is uneffected however. His balance is grounded (if he could stand properly), the only thing that has happened is the defender has moved. Fine...step 1 (benefit of the doubt).

Let's move on to step two. Not much has changed. The defender's left arm has slid down to near the wrist, the right hand fingers have come up near the eye. Again, opponent's structure and biomechanic response is unchanged. (Any solid knife opponent would have pivoted or moved follwing step one...BUUUUUT let's move on)

Step 3. WOW...something has actually happened to the knife wielding attacker! A chop to the throat has occured (well...okay...but my thinking is when this contacts and the opponent retracts, he also retracts that very knife across the defender). The leg is doing....well....something. It states it's some sort of a foot sweep.

However if we look at the body relation from defender to attacker, there has been no spinal rotation from the defender to add body behind the throat strike, so that shot is going on nothing but shoulder, which isn't much to do much of anything, unless people call you "Arnold" at the gym.

Hrm...got me. I'm perplexed. Maybe there's something in his chi cultivation that I'm missing here.

*ahem*

 

[TLH3rdDan]

ok thats just sad and pathetic... i have no idea what this guy thinks he is doing.... but he needs to give it up... but then what do i know i mean hell he could be channeling his chi thru his reptilian brain and into his hands so that he moves so fast the attackers body has no time to react i mean they are black and white photos maybe his hands are glowing like in the last dragon lol thats about the only way i can see that technique possibly working...

 

[Sigung86]

I suspect that this gentleman is getting a lot of guidance from the ghost of Elvis, and his techniques appear to be coordinated for camera angles. Just a bit scary that he is teaching this stuff to people and having them believe it is good technique. Like a supposed Shaolin Instructor many years ago, who tried to convince me on the effectiveness of the "Eagle Squint" while fighting.:shrug:

Dan

 

[kenpo_cory]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo

He's gonna get poked faster than a frog at gumbo time in Lousiana.


Have a great Kenpo day


Clyde

hahahahah that's funny, I'm from louisiana. :rofl:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Warm them frog legs up..... Im a waitin....
:asian: