Kenpo in the 21st Century

[MJS]

Originally posted by Michael Billings

And how do you figure? I sit and ask about someones training and the response I get is how good their instructor is. I'm not asking about Larry Tatum. I am asking about the individual! Seeing that we all train under different inst. I'm just curious as to what training everybody else does. Not looking to start anything, just have a discussion about training. If someone has a certain way that they train or certain ideas that they have about doing something, I'd love to hear about them. Maybe its something that other people on this forum can use and make work for them!!! Any training idea is worth at least listening to. If you dont agree with it, that is ok, but maybe other people do

MJS

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
We've told you how we train, more than once I might add. There are Kenpo people out there that have no idea what a figure 4 is, some just don't know what it's called but know how to apply it. There are also those out there that know what it's called, know how to apply it for the attack for Entangled Wing, but have no clue how to apply it anywhere else on the body. Where's the hole, them or their instructor? I could also use this scenario when referring to naked chokes, or cross and triangle chokes, and every other attack for the techniques.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Actually Clyde, the majority of what I've heard is "Why cross train, when everything you need is right here in Kenpo?" "BJJ is not good on the street!" "Why break from tradition?" "You'll never get attacked with a knife!" "My inst. is great!"

I think the title of this forum and the Kenpo on the ground forum are to look at where Kenpo is going to be headed. As for the ground work. Well, maybe I'm reading it wrong. Are we talking about being able to use a Kenpo tech. effectively on the ground, or will Kenpo work on the ground if someone takes you there and is pounding away at you?

I all honesty, I am a part of 2 other forums as well as this one. We have good conversation about questions that some might have on how to do something, a problem that they might be having, a better way to do something.

I am more than sure that all of the Inst. that have been mentioned are more than good, but I'm looking to talk about the way other peole do things. Honestly Clyde, I have not been seeing much of this. Instead, someone makes a post, and then someone else makes a negative comment about it. I really wish that we can all put these things behind us, start over, and have some good conversation on the art which we study..KENPO!! I have, unfortunately, not been able to train with the people that some of you train with. IE- Larry Tatum for example. I have met the man 1 time, thats it..1 time. I was impressed with what I saw.

Mike

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by MJS
And how do you figure? I sit and ask about someones training and the response I get is how good their instructor is. I'm not asking about Larry Tatum. I am asking about the individual! Seeing that we all train under different inst. I'm just curious as to what training everybody else does. Not looking to start anything, just have a discussion about training. If someone has a certain way that they train or certain ideas that they have about doing something, I'd love to hear about them. Maybe its something that other people on this forum can use and make work for them!!! Any training idea is worth at least listening to. If you dont agree with it, that is ok, but maybe other people do

MJS

Odd, you didn't answer the question. Where's the hole, the student or the instructor, it certainly isn't the system? I did just give you a basic scenario of what's happening out there, and I never mentioned my instructor, you did, and I find it odd that you never give your instructor's name and training other than 3rd Black to give you any credibility.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

All: Thank you for your lively discussion! I think there is much valuable discussion here. Doc: Thank you for offeirng your wisdom.

We may not ever change each others' minds, but let's keep the dialogue going so that each of us can continue to learn about different perspectives and to plan our own Kenpo future.

 

[MJS]

Well OFK, I'm glad to hear you say that. I'm glad that you think that some of the info here is usefull, cuz there sure alot of others that dont agree!!

MJS

 

[8253]

Kenpo is based on evolving to meet different situations, time being one of them. So therefore i believe it must change with time.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Dang, this looked like a fun thread to get punchy in. Sorry I missed it at it's inception.

 

[MJS]

Dang, this looked like a fun thread to get punchy in. Sorry I missed it at it's inception.

Yeah, it was quite the interesting one. Please feel free to get it started back up again though. Nothing like stirring the pot a few times! :argue:

Mike

 

[marshallbd]

We all seem to get into the argument about BJJ, and how its not good against mult. attackers. First, how many of the people who teach mult. attacker defense, has actually had experience with the?? You will not be fighting 5 guys at one time, and have them attack you one at a time. NO, you will have 2 at a time, or 2 holding you, while the 3rd punches you. Its easy to teach this in a controlled fashion, but under the stress of the street, its very different. Also, what happens if you get attacked from the rear, where you can't see the attack coming, and you get knocked to the ground. You should at least know some basics on the ground to defend yourself, and then work your way back to your feet. Also, not every fight that you encounter will involve mult. people.

Ihave an aquintance who I knew in Colorado who is heavy into the BJJ scene and has never lost a match in the MMA Arena....he went out to try and help a friend of his who was getting the Crap beat out of him at a nightclub and he was doing fine with the one guy but when his buddy was knocked out and he then had 2 guys to deal with it was lights out and lights and siren time for him....He now trains in American Kenpo in Colorado Springs to round out his skills....just to clarify he has not given up on the BJJ stuff he is just getting himself skilled in a different style to round out his skills :asian:

 

[MJS]

He now trains in American Kenpo in Colorado Springs to round out his skills....just to clarify he has not given up on the BJJ stuff he is just getting himself skilled in a different style to round out his skills :asian:

Being well rounded is something that, IMO, I feel that is very important. And you'll even notice in all of the MMA fights, that there are no one style fighters anymore. You have BJJ guys training in boxing and Muay Thai, and you have strikers training in BJJ or another grappling based art to round themselves out.

Sounds like your friend is on a road to success!! :asian:

Mike

 

[Bill Lear]

MJS,

Why cross train, when everything you need is right here in Kenpo?
BJJ is not good on the street!
Why break from tradition?
You'll never get attacked with a knife!
My instructor is great!

(I arrived at the party late and wanted to piss in the pool too. Do ya mind if I do it from the edge? I don't like swimming in my own pee.)

Has fighting really changed all that much in the past couple of decades? Do we have eight legged mutants running around our city streets now, or has the average fighting prowess of Joe Mugger increased exponentially? Why do we need to change Ed Parker's Kenpo? It's always worked for me? I guess I'm wrong to assume that Kenpo is good enough. Maybe I'll take up studying Lathalo or some other more effective system. God knows... Mr. Parker (and all of his students) kept us in the dark, and didn't want us to know the secret methodology of combating mutants, right?

In the long run I think any system is what you make of it. If you make it effective for you, then it will be. If you just go through the motions without commiting yourself to what you're doing then you lost before you got there. My system of choice is Kenpo, and my effort is to make it work the way it was ment to work (Eight legged mutant or not). Just some thoughts.
:asian:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Why cross train, when everything you need is right here in Kenpo?
BJJ is not good on the street!
Why break from tradition?
You'll never get attacked with a knife!
My instructor is great!
QUOTE]

Billy, Billy, Billy...

1) Why cross train...well, we've been talking about this. I agree, YOU shouldn't cross train. I will continue to do so.
2) BJJ not good on the street you say...well, that depends. Certainly, pulling guard, not defending against strikes or kicks, that's bad. Being able to imobilize, mount, or choke-out an opponent, that's good.
3) Why not?
4) Agree, grappling+knives=bloody mess.
5) Yes, we know.

 

[Bill Lear]

Why cross train, when everything you need is right here in Kenpo?
BJJ is not good on the street!
Why break from tradition?
You'll never get attacked with a knife!
My instructor is great!
QUOTE]

Billy, Billy, Billy...

1) Why cross train...well, we've been talking about this. I agree, YOU shouldn't cross train. I will continue to do so.
2) BJJ not good on the street you say...well, that depends. Certainly, pulling guard, not defending against strikes or kicks, that's bad. Being able to imobilize, mount, or choke-out an opponent, that's good.
3) Why not?
4) Agree, grappling+knives=bloody mess.
5) Yes, we know.

Hey Old Fat Kenpo Dude!

Wazzup?

Funny thing is I choked someone out 9 months ago in a street fight after executing Mace of Aggression on him. Didn't need to study BJJ to do it though.

I don't think we should change EPAK. Not because I want to see it traditionalized, but because (in it's latest form) I think its still the most effective system out there. Just my expereince.

 

[Ceicei]

I don't think we should change EPAK. Not because I want to see it traditionalized, but because (in it's latest form) I think its still the most effective system out there. Just my expereince.

When in the future, types of weapons might change, would you advocate updating EPAK or leaving it as is?

- Ceicei

 

[Bill Lear]

Ceicei,
Lets look forward into the future...

In the year 2000 (ala Conan O'Brien):

Knives will still be knives...
Firearms will still be firearms...
Clubs will still be clubs...
but Mr. T will have mastered the mind meld and we'll all have to surely defend ourselves against that! :mst:

 

[Ceicei]

Ceicei,

Lets look forward into the future...

In the year 2000 (ala Conan O'Brien):

Knives will still be knives...
Firearms will still be firearms...
Clubs will still be clubs...
but Mr. T will have mastered the mind meld and we'll all have to surely defend ourselves against that! :mst:

Thanks for the laugh! :rofl:

True, human nature will remain the same.

There might be slight variations of weaponry though. Think how things were 400 years ago, 200, 100, 50, even 10. Warfare and how people used things for defense did change to be more efficient. Now the mind meld, perhaps somebody, like you, can develop a kenpo mind block in defense against that. Maybe you would be so kind to instruct me once you learn how. :asian:

I don't know about you, but I am sure of some kenpoists out there who would adapt.

- Ceicei

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Cool..... What EPAK technique was the choke-out from? I suppose you hit a crossover stance while fighting the guy... huh?

The little I know about bjj has changed the way I look at my standup game. I've learned to be more aware of the chance of takedowns whether they are accidental or intentional. I have in turn increased my understanding and ability to effect my own takedowns and throws. I have also learned a great deal about position, leverage, and control that either I didn't understand or hadn't been introduced to before.

I take issue with the knife comment made earlier, because EPAK knife techniques also equal bloody mess. The knife is a very dangerous and effective weapon, hence its prevalence in our society. To suggest that Kenpo is any better at defending against a knife is somewhat obsurd, considering you have no idea what the Machado's or Gracie's may be teaching to deal with this. I would also argue that any system which expects you to turn your back to an armed attacker while fighting is deeply flawed.

I don't think we should change EPAK. Not because I want to see it traditionalized, but because (in it's latest form) I think its still the most effective system out there. Just my expereince.

I find your logic very interesting, it seems that you don't think we should change EPAK because "in it's latest form" it is just fine. A statement like this makes me think that you may not be doing EPAK the way it was WRITTEN when Parker died. the words "latest form" seem to indicate that you are doing something different than everyone else, which is great. However, if this is the case it kinda nullifies your argument about changing EPAK, seeing as how you aren't really using mainstream EPAK yourself.

Not really complaining or anything. Hell, I'm an AKKI'er we do things way different but at least we admit it. There's nothing wrong with change, just so long as you can still get the job done as effectively and efficiently as possible.

 

[Bill Lear]

Ceicei,

Glad you had a laugh!

In all seriousness... I think things will remain relatively the same. That is, until they find a way to make the lightsaber a reality.

:jedi1:

 

[Bill Lear]

Kenpo Yahoo,

The thing is... You're not practicing Ed Parker's American Kenpo, you're practicing Paul Mills American Kenpo. Mr. Mills has made several fundamental changes to the system. I wouldn't say that this is a bad thing either. Just different.

You see... when you change the fundamentals of a system, the system its-self ultimately changes enough to be identified as something else. I think that may be the case in your case, but I could be wrong. (Is it a duck or a pigeon? Sheesh, they're both birds... right? Small diffrences are differences none the less.)

As for the system I practice... The fundamentals are identical to the material outlined in Ed Parker's Infinite Insights series. Furthermore, the techniques, forms, and sets are the same as those presented in the Technique Manuals that were published by Mr. Parker in 1988. I might employ the equation formula when mixing it up sometimes, but it's still Ed Parker's System (just my style). (I know that I might have different spots on my feathers, but birds of a feather flock together, right? I mean all ducks don't look the same do they?)

:idunno:

 

[marshallbd]

I don't think we should change EPAK. Not because I want to see it traditionalized, but because (in it's latest form) I think its still the most effective system out there. Just my expereince.

Do you perform your art exactly the same way your instructor does? It is my opinion that the art changes with each person, each adding thier own unique little twist to it, ultimately creating their own sub-system (Lear's American Kenpo?)....but that is the opinion of a novice....Thanks for reading..... :asian: