Kenpo in the 21st Century

[Doc]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Dear MJS:

Sigh.

First off, your same critique might be applied to all those neat grappling thingies. Nobody is going to lie there and let that go on.

Second off---please read carefully---I don't want to be a fighter in the sense you argue. Not at all. Never did. Not the point.

Third: yes. I actually would be willing to spend the twenty years. BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LONG IT TAKES. How long did it take the much-announced Bruce Lee? The Gracies? Gene LeBell? Anybody?

And last--you are mistaken about cross-training giving a clearer view of one's failings. I yield to no one in an understanding of my failings in martial arts.

You persist in seeing everything that disagrees as an attack. It's not. You should do what you think right--all I'm asking is that you maintain a little respect for those of us who see matters differently.

Interesting reading in this context includes (because it'll agree with you as much as with me) Gene LeBell, "Handbook of Judo," and Herman Kauz, "A Path to Liberation."

"Man is his own greatest dupe, fore he tends to believe what he wants to believe." - Plato (I think)

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Dear MJS:

Sigh.

First off, your same critique might be applied to all those neat grappling thingies. Nobody is going to lie there and let that go on.

Second off---please read carefully---I don't want to be a fighter in the sense you argue. Not at all. Never did. Not the point.

Third: yes. I actually would be willing to spend the twenty years. BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LONG IT TAKES. How long did it take the much-announced Bruce Lee? The Gracies? Gene LeBell? Anybody?

And last--you are mistaken about cross-training giving a clearer view of one's failings. I yield to no one in an understanding of my failings in martial arts.

You persist in seeing everything that disagrees as an attack. It's not. You should do what you think right--all I'm asking is that you maintain a little respect for those of us who see matters differently.

Interesting reading in this context includes (because it'll agree with you as much as with me) Gene LeBell, "Handbook of Judo," and Herman Kauz, "A Path to Liberation."

Robert- In regards to the grappling, I have said that on the street, you will not be laying there rolling around for 20min. All I am referring to, is learning the basic moves--enough to defend yourself and get back to your feet, where you have the option to continue the fight or run. Thats all---nothing more, nothing less!

I never said that you or anybody should enter into the next UFC. Please stop making it sound like I'm saying these things when I AM NOT!! EVERYBODY is entitled to train and learn as they want. Was this thread titled "KENPO IN THE 21ST CENTURY" I understood it as, what do we need to do to the system to make it ready for the 21st century. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the thread. You are welcome to train and to take your training to any level you want. I'm not holding a gun to your head, making you train the way I do.

In regards to the cross training. If its something that you wish to do, fine, if not, thats fine to. All I was attempting to do, was state that there is NO complete art, and that goes for Kenpo also! Our versions of a complete art are different. Mine is that a system should or at least make an attempt to address all ranges if they are to have a true understanding of them. If the system is teaching knife disarms, which Kenpo does, is it so wrong to look at other systems to get an idea of what they do for disarms? So it won't be a Kenpo disarm---big deal, who cares. If it saves your life, isnt it worth knowing? Sayoc Kali trains knife, like us in Kenpo train SD and kata. If you are willing to train 20 yrs in Kenpo and then another 20 in learning grappling or another 20 in Kali, that is great, and I wish you the best. I don't know how long you've been training. I've been in the arts for 17 yrs. I'm at the point in my training, where I'm not getting any younger, and I wish to train in some other arts, in which I feel that I can get the training that I'm looking for! Are these other ideas in Kenpo? Yes, I'm sure they are. However, I wish to train in other styles to supplement my Kenpo.

Once again, PLEASE let me say, that all my intentions were, was to show the benefits of cross training. If it is something you wish not to do, great, if you do, thats great too!

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, that's how progress goes, I guess.

I don't agree, for reasons already stated.

Thanks.

 

[MJS]

Robert- I seem to be a bit confused by your post. Please enlighten me as to what YOU think the Kenpo student should take in regards to Kenpo in the 21st Century? You seem to be on a one way path, not interested in learning anything else, and very confident in your Kenpo. That is good. But not everybody has your thinking. Please share with us what you think we should be doing? You seem to think that Kenpo addresses all situations. Please tell us about your training and what you do to prepare, and I am talking realistic training, for these real situations.

I don't want to sound like I'm challenging you or your decisions. If it seems that way, please forgive me! All I'm saying is, is that change is not a bad thing.

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

I already have. Several times. And so has Clyde, and others. Repeatedly. And the repeated response is that, "everybody's standing still," or "well, what if they," or, "but there's no ground escape there," or, "kenpo needs more realism," or, "there isn't any groundfighting in kenpo," or to simply overlook.

I am losing interest in discussing anything after the reiteration of the claim that "you seem to be on a one-way path, not interested in anything else." Especially because..well, the hell with it.

Sure. If it's all that simple, fine.

We simply see things differently. I suppose I've seemed as rude to you, so my apologies.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
I already have. Several times. And so has Clyde, and others. Repeatedly. And the repeated response is that, "everybody's standing still," or "well, what if they," or, "but there's no ground escape there," or, "kenpo needs more realism," or, "there isn't any groundfighting in kenpo," or to simply overlook.

I am losing interest in discussing anything after the reiteration of the claim that "you seem to be on a one-way path, not interested in anything else." Especially because..well, the hell with it.

Sure. If it's all that simple, fine.

We simply see things differently. I suppose I've seemed as rude to you, so my apologies.

Robert--I respect EVERYBODY and the knowledge that they have, reagrdless of what the rank. There is always someone better out there. This forum is filled with die hard Kenpoists. I think that the difference is that you and I train differently. You choose to saty just with the Kenpo and I choose to go out and train other arts. Thats fine..Great, I have said this many many many times. What rank are you in Kenpo? How long have you been training? I"m 3rd black and have trained for 17 yrs. We come from 2 different schools of thought. If you feel that you can get all you can out of Kenpo, good for you. Just becuase I don't see things in the same light as you do, please don't hang me for it! We are entitled to our opinions...you yours, and me mine. Maybe one day, and that day might never come, you will see some of the holes I'm talking about.

MS

 

[rmcrobertson]

"The holes."

Sigh.

 

[MJS]

Yup, thats right Rob, the holes. The holes that unfortunately, some people are too blind to see.

If you think you can get all you can out of Kenpo, good for you. I have seen the holes. I think you are under a misconception from other people, who themselves dont want to believe it either. Like I said Rob, there is nothing wrong with admitting a short coming. I do it. I'll admit that I'm not the greatest puncher. SO, what have I done to fix it....I've trained with peole who are better punchers, have boxing exp. etc. You can't honestly tell me that a Kenpo practioner is a better puncher than a boxer!

MS

 

[Doc]

I always find it interesting when someone talks about "what missing" or the "holes" in kenpo. The suggestions here are pretty bold. I read it as "I have all the knowledge of all the kenpo therefore I can see what's missing, and you can't." Maybe we're not so "blind" as you think.

What offends people is the arrogance of one persons own Kenpo training with an instructor projected to include everyones kenpo experience as no better than theirs. I respect the path you choose to take as long as you don't try to tell me whats wrong with what I do, because you have no knowledge of MY Kenpo. All of this, "you're blind, don't/won't can't see" from someone not yet thirty years old, who's an expert in everyones kenpo. I don't presume to know you or your training, and am fine with whatever it is.

But when you voluntarily come to a discussion group and suggest you know ALL of Kenpo has holes because you've had that experience, you must anticipate a tad of resistance of your projected expertise on those with different experiences, and in some cases a lot more experience and knowledge.

Cross training? In modern terms applied to the martial arts, that has become a "sport concept" that should not apply to the arts as I understand them. Over the years I've studied and managed to pick up a 9th Dan in Karate-do from the World Federation directed by the late Ed Hamile, a 9th Dan in Okazaki's Dan Zan Ryu Jiu-jitsu, along with blacks or equiv in Hap Ki Do, Shotokan, Slapping Hands Gung fu, Silat, etc. Yet I still embrace my "porous" kenpo.

Why? Because when you truly get to the higher art, you'll find they're all the same. The differences are philosophical in how you get there and for what purpose you study in the first place, which directs the physical parameters of focus and methodology.

Modern Grappling disciplines are "immediate arts." They are competition based so there is an urgency to become functional quickly just like commercial kenpo. And like commercial kenpo it carrys with it significant flaws in its focus that can only be addressed by a knowledgeable, competent, and physical teacher.

Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is not "jiu-jitsu in the traditional sense of the term. It is an aberration of judo, which is it roots, and is only a very small part of true jiu-jitsu - just as commercial kenpo too is a modern day aberration and also is only a small part of true Chinese origin "Kenpo" Chaun fa, Chuan Shu, etc. This is not a secret, and I doubt anyone would go into a "strip mall" karate school believing they are going to get all the "ancient secrets." Or maybe I'm wrong and your expectations were different. Only you can answer that.

However, I congratulate you for finding the "holes" in your own experience, and I further commend you for seeking to improve and educate yourself. Just don't be so "close minded" to think you're the only one who might do that, or others experiences with their kenpo, commercial or not, is the same as yours. Ask others what they do, and how they train. Solicit opinions, and discussions as to why perhaps they find everything they need in what they do. Speak specifically about techniques of interest to you, and how others find them successful. Perhaps these things are addressed in "THEIR" kenpo experience if not yours.

I only speak of MY experiences, and what I know and invite comparisons. I don't try to persuade people to change, or suggest another path because they're wrong. We simply dialog and come to a mutual conclusion which may or may not be in agreement. After 46 years I'm not likely to change my focus, but I am a perpetual student and listen to everyone objectively and continue to learn.

Perhaps a better position would have been, "MY teacher, MY training, and MY experiences has some significant holes, therefore I'm seeking to close them by seeking out other arts."

With such a declaration, I don't think this string would have persisted as long as it has. On that everyone should agree. (or not):asian:

 

[MJS]

Doc-An excellent post, which I respect. Just to clarify, when talking about the holes, yes I realize that we all train differently, and one inst might address something differently than another. The holes I've found might not be in anyone elses Kenpo, maybe just mine. I mentioned the grappling because, and unless someone else is doing at their school, I have not seen it taught anywhere. If they are teaching it, then they have done the very thing that Im referring to. I have also inquired about peoples training, how long they have studied, how they train, and I get NO response. Why is that? Why avoid the question? By not answering the question, it leads me to believe that they might be agreeing with me, but just cant bring themselves to do it. Once again, I don't think that you have to be 50 yrs old to have the knowledge of fighting. The people that I have trained with outside of my Kenpo, I have known for many years, so I do feel that I have room to talk. Are you saying that due to my age, nobody can learn from me? If that is the case, then you are very wrong, because I have had many people at my school come up to me and say that they enjoy my teaching very much, and that they feel like they are getting more out of it, than from some of the other inst. at the school.. I would think that this wold count for something. I mention cross training and get my head bitten off! I'm not and never have said that anybody has to do it, but just to keep it as an option. When I mention it, people say that all that I've talked about they already do. If that is the case, then fine. Like I said, every inst is different. Maybe Larry Tatum does grappling in his school or whatever, maybe not, I dont know. It does appear though, that many people in here are doing the same Kenpo, and therefore, that is why I mention the things that I do.

MS

 

[twinkletoes]

After much reading I will add something small here to help out OFK and his original intent in this post.

I think that many people are misunderstanding 'crosstraining' as some of us are using it.

--
Quote from Doc:

Over the years I've studied and managed to pick up a 9th Dan in Karate-do from the World Federation directed by the late Ed Hamile, a 9th Dan in Okazaki's Dan Zan Ryu Jiu-jitsu, along with blacks or equiv in Hap Ki Do, Shotokan, Slapping Hands Gung fu, Silat, etc. Yet I still embrace my "porous" kenpo.

Why? Because when you truly get to the higher art, you'll find they're all the same.
--
This is exactly a point that I think some of the "crosstrainers" are trying to make. OFK has said many times that he is still a Kenpoka, no matter what else he studies.

What he has noticed, when engaged in other training methodologies, is that other styles "flesh out" Kenpo principles. Some have referenced angles of cancellation on the ground. I think this is a good example of how the idea is constant, but it can be brought to light in a variety of exercises. OFK points out that it is taught in ways other than kata practice or cooperative drills.

--
OFK said on page 8:
We are in agreement on several fundamental points:
1) Kenpo is a very comprehensive system.
2) Kenpo principles are based on sound physics and are applicable in a variety of positions and situations.
3) the ground is a bad place to go in a street fight or self-defense situation.
--

The following seems to be a point that OFK and some others have tried to make, but it has not quite been picked up.

It's not about whether or not Kenpo techniques work against X[groundfighting, BJJ, knives, clubs, etc.], or whether Kenpo's approach is effective against X, or whether or not Kenpo's principles are true against X. What is being suggested is that in some people's experiences, Kenpo training does not include training methods that focus on skill development in X situations.

Let me quote OFK on page 8 again: "I feel that Kenpo would benefit by focusing more time on "alive" training drills similar to Kickboxing sparring and Judo/BJJ Randori. I feel that Kata practice should be sacrificed to spend additiional time on "alive" training. Some of you feel that the best EPAK teachers are already using the right mix of traning methods, drills, and sparring and that Kenpo practice is very "alive". Those of you who feel this way are uncomfortable with the de-emphasis of any of the major parts of EPAK that a major change in training method would require." [bold marks are mine]

Now, some people think this is throwing out the baby [kenpo's principles, ideas, movements, and approaches] with the bathwater [traditional training methods]. I suspect there will not be agreement on this issue. But can we at least recognize that this is the issue?

Best,

~TT

 

[Fastmover]

Doc:
"Cross training? In modern terms applied to the martial arts, that has become a "sport concept" that should not apply to the arts as I understand them. Over the years I've studied and managed to pick up a 9th Dan in Karate-do from the World Federation directed by the late Ed Hamile, a 9th Dan in Okazaki's Dan Zan Ryu Jiu-jitsu, along with blacks or equiv in Hap Ki Do, Shotokan, Slapping Hands Gung fu, Silat, etc. Yet I still embrace my "porous" kenpo."

Hey,
The subject of cross training is very interesting and its influence
in Kenpo seems to be a major part of this whole thread. You
have some advanced rankings outside of Kenpo which indicates that you have trained extensively outside of Kenpo. You have:

10th Black in American Kenpo
9th Dan in Karate do
9th Dan in Okazaki's Dan Zan Ryu Jiu-Jitsu
Black Belts in Hap Ki Do
Black in Shotokan
Black in Slapping Hands Gung Fu
Black in Silat

Any one of these arts could take a life time to master yet you
have advanced black belts in many. This indicates to me that you
have worked very diligently at cross training because I am assuming these are not honorary in nature. Even though you
say that cross traning is a sport concept it seems to be something
that you yourself have embraced. Why would you spend
so much of your time working at these other arts if you have
discovered there are no holes within Kenpo and there is nothing
missing from what Mr. Parker gave you? Again maybe these are
honorary in nature but for the moment I am assuming that you
have trained and earned these titles through hard work? How
have these other systems influenced what you do in your Kenpo?

Thanks

 

[MJS]

Very interesting Fastmover! I am eagerly awaiting the response!!!

Mike

 

[Doc]

"Cross training? In modern terms applied to the martial arts, that has become a "sport concept" that should not apply to the arts as I understand them. Over the years I've studied and managed to pick up a 9th Dan in Karate-do from the World Federation directed by the late Ed Hamile, a 9th Dan in Okazaki's Dan Zan Ryu Jiu-jitsu, along with blacks or equiv in Hap Ki Do, Shotokan, Slapping Hands Gung fu, Silat, etc. Yet I still embrace my "porous" kenpo."

That may seem like a contradiction, but in fact it is not.

The subject of cross training is very interesting and its influence
in Kenpo seems to be a major part of this whole thread. You
have some advanced rankings outside of Kenpo which indicates that you have trained extensively outside of Kenpo. You have:

10th Black in American Kenpo
9th Dan in Karate do
9th Dan in Okazaki's Dan Zan Ryu Jiu-Jitsu
Black Belts in Hap Ki Do
Black in Shotokan
Black in Slapping Hands Gung Fu etc
Black in Silat

Cross training has had absolutely no influence on my Kenpo what so ever. In fact everything I have ever examined actually reinforced my Kenpo philosophies.

Any one of these arts could take a life time to master yet you
have advanced black belts in many. This indicates to me that you
have worked very diligently at cross training because I am assuming these are not honorary in nature. Even though you say that cross training is a sport concept it seems to be something that you yourself have embraced.

No not really. In the fifties and sixties before commercialization, it was not unusual to sample what everyone was doing, and in fact it was encouraged by Ed Parker to do so. You could go from Shotokan, Okinawa te, San Soo, Kenpo, Hap ki do, jiu-jitsu, Aikido, Goju Ryu, Five Animal Gung Fu, Tai Chi, Hung Gar, Choi Li Fut, etc all within 10/12 miles. They all had open door nights where anyone could come in and train. The number of people involved in the arts was so small, there was little of the commercial (read money) bickering seen today.

Why would you spend so much of your time working at these other arts if you have discovered there are no holes within Kenpo and there is nothing missing from what Mr. Parker gave you?

In the beginning it was curiosity, and I was already studying various Gung fu and karate methodologies when I met Parker so it wasn’t unusual. After that Parker began to actually explain what I had previously learned in terms I could understand, the rest was not that difficult.

Again maybe these are honorary in nature but for the moment I am assuming that you have trained and earned these titles through hard work? How have these other systems influenced what you do in your Kenpo?

They really haven’t influenced my Kenpo at all, except to validate my course of study. What my Kenpo training allowed me to do is decipher other arts and make them rather simplistic in comparison. Understanding true physical principles and concepts of execution allows me to look at any art and beak it down to what is useful. Much of other arts is ritual, cultural, or philosophical as opposed to practical. Ed Parker’s strength is he understood others arts as well or better than they did.

Although I was not given any rank intended to be “honorary”, I personally consider ALL rank honorary. It is only knowledge and skill that matters. Rank stripes and belts are more about the “business” of the martial arts, and for me really have no place in the teaching of true “martial Science.” Of course most of my black belts disagree to some extent.

My point is at a certain level, all legitimate arts are the same. The only differences are philosophical and/or cultural. You’d be surprised at the similarity of Kenpo and Pentjak once you get beyond cultural filler. All manipulations arts ultimately, have a physical imperative of functionality. The rest are “disciplines” that concern themselves with cultural mandates of dictated sameness for consistency of the discipline itself, and function is a secondary consideration if at all. So it is by staying with one credible art that has given me the insight to make other arts simplistic in the long run. Had I jumped around attempting to fix one art with another, I would not have the great overall perspective given me by a truly credible and imaginative teacher.

"cross training" is a modern philosophy, that may have validity for an individual, but not for an overall art. Don't project what you do for yourself beyond your own personal experiences, because that's all they are - your experiences. The art itself doesn't need it or you to contaminate it. There are very few people qualified to "fix" any art, but everyone can adjust their own experiences.

Nuff said.

 

[MJS]

Doc- GREAT post. Could you answer a few questions for me?

Cross training- In regards to your cross training, did any of the other arts you studied, help to make you Kenpo better? This is one of the main reasons I do it. I am not saying it is something everybody has to do, but I did it for my own reasons, and I feel that it has improved my Kenpo.

You mentioned Ed Parker encouraging people to look at other arts. Obviously, this is something that you yourself has done. Why is it then, when I mentioned cross training, all I seemed to hear, was that there was no need to do it because everything is already addressed in Kenpo. IE- groundfighting, weapons, etc?

I could not agree with you more in regards to saying that the belt is just there for the "business", but the things that matter the most are the knowledge and the skill! Like I have said, every art has something to offer, but in the long run, its the individual that makes the most out of it.

Mike

 

[Doc]

Cross training- In regards to your cross training, did any of the other arts you studied, help to make you Kenpo better?

No.

I feel that it has improved my Kenpo.

Good.

You mentioned Ed Parker encouraging people to look at other arts. Obviously, this is something that you yourself has done.

In the fifties and early sixties when all modern non-tradional arts were growing.

Why is it then, when I mentioned cross training, all I seemed to hear, was that there was no need to do it because everything is already addressed in Kenpo. IE- groundfighting, weapons, etc?

Obviously there are those who do not share your kenpo experience. You will not gain acceptance by insisting those who disagree "are blind" or "refuse to see" the "holes" you speak of.

Its the individual that makes the most out of it.

Then reserve your comments for your personal experience and ask more questions of others. You seem more intent on talking about what you do, then soliciting answers from others about "how" they do what they do. I suspect everyone has figured out what your position is. Good luck (if you choose) with your inquiries.

 

[Fastmover]

Doc,

I hate to continue to bring this up but you have very advanced degrees
in these other arts. You say that Kenpo has no holes and yet you
yourself seem to be searching elsewhere. Two ninth degree black belts in
another martial art is not just a sample of another art, it is a huge investment in
time and hard work. It sounds like you have trained extensively in these other arts
and you have indeed cross trained throughout your martial arts studies. Why else
would you spend so much time learning each systems idiosyncrasies unless you
saw the value in doing so? It is difficult to understand why since you see no value in these others systems, you would waste so much of your time doing something that
has not had a huge impact on your journey.

There seems to be a huge contradiction with what you say about cross training. Its one
Thing to dabble within these other arts back in the 50’s and 60’s but it is clear that
you have made life time study in these other arts. As an example of this would you
mind sharing when you received these other Black Belts in these arts other then Kenpo?

By the way I have seen many interviews up and until Mr. Parkers death were he
Encouraged his students to test the waters and see what other arts were teaching.
If this is something you have done then Id say you were just doing as Mr. Parker
taught you.

Why would it be wrong for anyone else to do exactly what you yourself have done?
Cross-training.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Doc
[
Obviously there are those who do not share your kenpo experience. You will not gain acceptance by insisting those who disagree "are blind" or "refuse to see" the "holes" you speak of.

Well, I have admitted that I do the cross training for my own reasons. I realize that we all train differently, but I believe this forum is to discuss how the art of Kenpo is going to be in the 21st century. If I mention that there is something not found in Kenpo and someone turns around and constatnly agrues that it is in there, isn't that person "blind" to what I'm saying?

Then reserve your comments for your personal experience and ask more questions of others. You seem more intent on talking about what you do, then soliciting answers from others about "how" they do what they do. I suspect everyone has figured out what your position is. Good luck (if you choose) with your inquiries. [/B]

Um, isn't this forum for us to all duscuss our knowledge and the expereinces that we have had in Kenpo? Obviously, I've talked alot about mine, and I'm NOT saying that I have all the answeres fighured out, but I see nobody offereing any of their training exp. Doc, look back a few posts. All you will see is the posts that constatnly agree that things are in there. You will see people say why bother to cross train, when, after many years of having a good understanding of the art, you will see it yourself. I have asked people about their training, what they do at their school, and here I sit, still waiting for an answer. Is this forum not to discuss our training? Soliciting answers?? Like I said, all I'm trying to do is find out how other people train, seeing that I have so many saying that everything I need is right here in Kenpo. I have not heard anybody talking about how long they have been training or what rank they are. All you hear instead, is people bragging about their own inst. Is this a bad thing? No, I'm proud of my inst. but I don't walk around and talk about them like they are God!

MJS

 

[Michael Billings]

I have asked people about their training, what they do at their school, and here I sit, still waiting for an answer.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by MJS
Um, isn't this forum for us to all duscuss our knowledge and the expereinces that we have had in Kenpo? Obviously, I've talked alot about mine, and I'm NOT saying that I have all the answeres fighured out, but I see nobody offereing any of their training exp. Doc, look back a few posts. All you will see is the posts that constatnly agree that things are in there. You will see people say why bother to cross train, when, after many years of having a good understanding of the art, you will see it yourself. I have asked people about their training, what they do at their school, and here I sit, still waiting for an answer. Is this forum not to discuss our training? Soliciting answers?? Like I said, all I'm trying to do is find out how other people train, seeing that I have so many saying that everything I need is right here in Kenpo. I have not heard anybody talking about how long they have been training or what rank they are. All you hear instead, is people bragging about their own inst. Is this a bad thing? No, I'm proud of my inst. but I don't walk around and talk about them like they are God!

MJS

We've told you how we train, more than once I might add. There are Kenpo people out there that have no idea what a figure 4 is, some just don't know what it's called but know how to apply it. There are also those out there that know what it's called, know how to apply it for the attack for Entangled Wing, but have no clue how to apply it anywhere else on the body. Where's the hole, them or their instructor? I could also use this scenario when referring to naked chokes, or cross and triangle chokes, and every other attack for the techniques.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde