M
madfrank
Guest
Hi All
To clarify my no boxer has ever fought a MA.
The Ali wrestler thing was nearly called off when the wrestler saw Ali on the bag.
He came out with all sorts of rules which Ali accepted as this was just a bit of fun for him.
Then the cowardly wrestler spent most of the fight on the floor kicking at Ali's legs.
I watched this live.
Did no one here actually see this debarcle?
Doesnt sound like it.
The wrestler was too scared to stand up but couldnt get Ali who had no grappling training down.
The gracies never fought a trained boxer.
They had old journeymen with no fight records to speak of in their contests.
The Gracies invented the competition and the rules and consequently won the first few.
But once everyone knew what they were up to they withdrew. LOL
A lot of Top MA's fought so called boxers but no MA's ever actually had a real fight against a real boxer.
The old story about motobu as told in that work of fiction 'the dojo' by pete urban god red his book it is nonsense.
And in the magazine article if you read it it is obvious the author of the article never witnessed the fight.
It was allegedly told to him duhhhhh.
Plus the karateman has been variously ascribed to several MA's
It is an urban myth.
Name me a top boxer who has had an actual fight with a top MA's
MF
To clarify my no boxer has ever fought a MA.
The Ali wrestler thing was nearly called off when the wrestler saw Ali on the bag.
He came out with all sorts of rules which Ali accepted as this was just a bit of fun for him.
Then the cowardly wrestler spent most of the fight on the floor kicking at Ali's legs.
I watched this live.
Did no one here actually see this debarcle?
Doesnt sound like it.
The wrestler was too scared to stand up but couldnt get Ali who had no grappling training down.
The gracies never fought a trained boxer.
They had old journeymen with no fight records to speak of in their contests.
The Gracies invented the competition and the rules and consequently won the first few.
But once everyone knew what they were up to they withdrew. LOL
A lot of Top MA's fought so called boxers but no MA's ever actually had a real fight against a real boxer.
The old story about motobu as told in that work of fiction 'the dojo' by pete urban god red his book it is nonsense.
And in the magazine article if you read it it is obvious the author of the article never witnessed the fight.
It was allegedly told to him duhhhhh.
Plus the karateman has been variously ascribed to several MA's
It is an urban myth.
Name me a top boxer who has had an actual fight with a top MA's
MF
M
madfrank
Guest
Duhhh
the savage le bell fight was a joke
savage was an old man
he was never a champion but a journey man
like i said
MF
the savage le bell fight was a joke
savage was an old man
he was never a champion but a journey man
like i said
MF
N
NotQuiteDead
Guest
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=003307
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterid=11896
Pure strikers of any kind get destroyed in mma, and pure grapplers probably would too.
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterid=11896
Pure strikers of any kind get destroyed in mma, and pure grapplers probably would too.
bobster_ice
Black Belt
karate is better
bobster_ice
Black Belt
way better
ppko
Master Black Belt
Sorry to bring this back up I just now read the thread. But as to Martial Artist that Ali credited, for his boxing I can only think of one, George Dillman he was on Ali's staff and credited in many newspaper articles by Ali. The biggest thing he taught Ali was breathing techniques. George now owns Ali's training camp, Ali sold it to him for a good price.
SammyB57 said:
there's some articles on the web about the earlier bouts- chinese and japanese martial artists were impressed by the western boxing techniques and attempted to match their skill in sporting matches-- the martial artists usually ended up on their backs. boxing became hugely popular amongst martial artists before the turn of the 20th century-- the chinese and japanese both began to study the sport with great enthusiasm. they also were impressed with western wrestling as well.
here's some links
http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes/Pages/articlee.htm
http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=212
http://seinenkai.com/
the story of motobu is pretty consistent in that he succesfully k.o'd a boxer- though one doubts that the boxer he fought was anyone but a journey man boxer and not any champion (some russian guy is how he's described in most articles i've seen)- it's also important to note that the boxer had already dispatched quite a few judo/karate guys before motobu jumped in and hit him-- one wonders how well he might have done had motobu been his first bout.
as for modern times- gene labell and milo savage was the most famous in the 60s- black belt magazine had an archived article on its website for many years but my link is no longer working... i think milo was in decent shape for that bout- labell was the bigger guy however in this instance- milo was no heavyweight but he was a good boxer and landed a few solid blows to labell before labell closed the gap on him and tossed him, later if i recall he broke or traumatized milo's arm before choking him out-- but if milo was a heavyweight- those early blows might have made a big difference...
ali vs the sumo wrestler was the other well known match but widely considered a joke (they both dance around each other for most of the match.) joe lewis wrote an article on the bout. ali did hire karate guys to do body guard work for him and respected the arts for what they were intended for-- self-defense.
back in the late 60s- there were a few random karate vs. boxer matches- mostly side shows for local boxing crowds-- there was a match in boston that my friends went to see and they told me how some no name boxer beat in succession a bunch of no name karate guys. they thought it was funny but no one was sure what it proved or didn't prove.
the first ufc featured a middleweight (name?) who came in against royce gracie wearing a single glove and looking a bit lost in the ring-- it was obvious that he wasn't clear on what he could or couldn't do in the fight and promptly lost.
today the MMA have made boxing, kicking and grappling skills mandatory to be competitive, so the pure anything vs the versatile fighter is not much of an issue..
happy new year.
Jaz
Boxers, in general, will be able to take more punishment, especially to the head, than a Karate-ka.
The fact remains, that most experienced boxers have been pounded in the head so many times, that their nerve endings are essentially shot in that area. This is why they can take shots to the head / face that would otherwise make the overwhelming majority of us well up in tears. Could we, as Karate-ka, do such training? Sure, but I doubt that most of us would want to lose those nerve endings. Furthermore, I'm sure that most of us don't exactly relish the idea of losing that many brain cells.
The fact remains, that most experienced boxers have been pounded in the head so many times, that their nerve endings are essentially shot in that area. This is why they can take shots to the head / face that would otherwise make the overwhelming majority of us well up in tears. Could we, as Karate-ka, do such training? Sure, but I doubt that most of us would want to lose those nerve endings. Furthermore, I'm sure that most of us don't exactly relish the idea of losing that many brain cells.
searcher
Senior Master
Karate has more diverse techniques and boxing has a few specialty techniques. I have done both for many years and think they both have a great deal to offer. This discussion will never be settled until they offer a world class boxer a large purse to step into the ring with a world class karate-ka. It is NEVER going to happen.
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