Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[renc]

A bonafide traditional karate master wrecking people in MMA would make millions. He would be a massive draw for the sport.

TMA are really not a magnet for those motivated by money and glory.
Well kiddo, what do you want to be when you grow up?
I wanna be a TMA master!
*whack*

I doubt many sports fighters are either.

 

[TSDTexan]

Once again, it's the training model, not the techniques. If styles fall down, it's likely because there is a lack of practical feedback given to the students.

The association fallacy at work. I train BJJ and Ryan Hall trains BJJ, therefore, I can do what Ryan Hall does. Student A and Lyoto Machida are black belts in Shotokan Karate. Lyoto Machida is successful using his Shotokan Karate in MMA. Therefore, student A will also be successful in MMA. Doesn't hold up.

It works for self defense, too. I am learning "Style A" from my instructor. My instructor is able to use style A to successfully defend himself. Ergo, I am able to defend myself. Doesn't work.

Many people who properly train in tma (with competent instructors have defended themselves in RL.

OK. We will discount that as anecdotal as well.

What else do you have that shows your system is valid?

I don't have the background in physics to have an opinion.

Would you accept my defensive use of chi balls?

Ibid.

 

[Steve]

BY TMA STANDARDS, THIS POSITION IS BUNK.

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The fallacy of this was completely made plain in my Bertel kumite vid. Bertel's opponent is coming out just as you say.... repeating technique he's seen demonstrated in kumite competition.... Then the guy is completely flummoxed against Bertel's dynamic response....
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There's people doing karate form / and then there's people doing karate.
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Your statement's 1st 2 sentences are applicable to that group doing karate in physical form. Probably at least 75% of the karate participants; so in terms of percentages of the populace your statement (1st two) is correct. And attractive as a marketing approach.
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This is the part that is complete bunk..... Completely. This dogma has been blasted all over the internet since the origins of the UFC. NOW is 'written in stone,' from being blabbed & rehabbed so incredibly often. Every Laptop mMA observer recants the same rhetoric over & over.
\
TRUTH: Guys like Machida do well 'cause of their traditional karate base. Guys like Machida fall short because they train to physical form & conventions instead of to principles....


\
Great again for self advocacy. Styles fall down because those training don't understand what TMA is doing in it's approach. Styles fall down because students aren't serious or dedicated, or the instructor same. Of course feedback playS into that dynamic.


\
I would hope not. If so, we should close all the institutions of higher learning. Yet what you say is much too often the UNDISCIPLINED attitude we see in sports... Again, good marketing dogma....
\
Edit: And in McDojo's too.


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Doesn't AUTOMATICALLY work. Shake it out, Steve: shake it out.....

I honestly do not understand a word you write, my friend. I can't tell if you're being serious or glib, but either way, I can't make heads or tails of it.

I quite honestly don't know whether you agree with me or not, at this point. Is English your native language? I ask only because if you are not a native speaker, it might explain your writing.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In Asia, CMA practitioners have no issue entering NHB tournaments.

They just don't do very well.

Here you go again with the trash posting a video saying that CMAs don't do good in competition. You fail to understand my comments, which is simple. If you train to fight then you become a good fighter. If you don't train to fight then you won't become a good fighter. I can be a boxer and punch a bag all day long and I'll never be a good fighter because my focus isn't to train to fight. If a person's focus of learning a Martial Art's isn't to be a good fighter, then none of the training that's required to be a good fighter will be done. This is the same with BJJ. You can take BJJ classes all day long, but if you don't train to be a fighter, then your BJJ only becomes an exercise.

If I'm training in a CMA for the purpose of going to war during China's dynasty eras then my CMA training will reflect that purpose. If I train in a CMA for the purpose of fighting then my CMA training will reflect that purpose. If I only do CMA for exercise then my CMA training will reflect that purpose. This is the same logic that fits almost every activity in life. If I train to be a good basketball player then my training reflects that purpose. If I only train just enough to say that I can dribble a ball then my training will only reflect that.

People take martial arts for different reasons and it's not always focused on being a good fighter or even getting into a fight. The only thing that video you posted shows is a guy who didn't train in his martial arts with the purpose of fighting.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I honestly do not understand a word you write, my friend. I can't tell if you're being serious or glib, but either way, I can't make heads or tails of it.

I quite honestly don't know whether you agree with me or not, at this point. Is English your native language? I ask only because if you are not a native speaker, it might explain your writing.

\
Answer's in the Bertel vid. Simple as that...

 

[RTKDCMB]

I don't have the background in physics to have an opinion.

Would you accept my defensive use of chi balls?

No, because I do have a background in physics.

 

[drop bear]

I need to be more precise - by MMA I was referring the sport as per Rogan, not as a general principle.
MMA the sport draws from the ocean. My impression is that sample is small relative to the ocean, so my issue remains the conclusions that can *potentially* be drawn are fairly limited in scope.

See it depends what we are comparing it to. I grew up with martial arts before the ufc. And the information was so scattered and unreliable as to be ludicrous by today's standards. It was all just black belts saying stuff with no background or experience in what they were saying.

 

[drop bear]

TMA are really not a magnet for those motivated by money and glory.
Well kiddo, what do you want to be when you grow up?
I wanna be a TMA master!
*whack*

I doubt many sports fighters are either.

Well it is. Not all of them but there are plenty drawn to the money and power.

We get plenty of tma cults that are defined by the desire to take money and power.

 

[drop bear]

No, because I do have a background in physics.

Was this physics tested in a real self defence situation?

 

[drop bear]

Many people who properly train in tma (with competent instructors have defended themselves in RL.

Many people who play the flute have defended themselves in RL.

George Harrison famously defended himself against a knife wielding attacker.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Was this physics tested in a real self defence situation?

It wouldn't be necessary to test something that you know to be nonsense..

 

[RTKDCMB]

What else do you have that shows your system is valid?

Valid to whom? You? Me? Potential new students? Other martial arts?

 

[drop bear]

It wouldn't be necessary to test something that you know to be nonsense..

How do you know it is nonsense?

 

[drop bear]

Valid to whom? You? Me? Potential new students? Other martial arts?

All of the above I guess.

 

[renc]

Many people who play the flute have defended themselves in RL.

George Harrison famously defended himself against a knife wielding attacker.

Fair point, correlation not causation. That's a tough one. What's a TMA to do? Someone whose personal experience gives them highly justified confidence that a) they can apply their art effectively and b) their training gives them an edge, but they cannot objectively demonstrate the worth of their art to the world at large. That's a frustration when people come trash talking their art. No random sampling to help out of street fights involving TMA-trained and untrained. They can adapt their art to a sport fighting event, and if MMA mix it in with other arts, and be a sample size of one. If they have the motivation, if they believe they can prove something. Or they can position on the sidelines, avoid overextending and snipe the Roganites claiming they got the thing wrapped up - perhaps not the most admirable but I think the most rational choice.

 

[renc]

See it depends what we are comparing it to. I grew up with martial arts before the ufc. And the information was so scattered and unreliable as to be ludicrous by today's standards. It was all just black belts saying stuff with no background or experience in what they were saying.

So more data = an improvement, if you can extract the information you need and use it.

 

[RTKDCMB]

How do you know it is nonsense?

Because I understand basic physics and because there is no credible evidence to suggest otherwise or that it is even possible.

 

[RTKDCMB]

What else do you have that shows your system is valid?

What do you have that shows your system is valid?

 

[renc]

We get plenty of tma cults that are defined by the desire to take money and power.

Yeah, but they're the real low-end. Not representative of the average, definitely not the high-end. My impression of the high-end - a CMA grandmaster who teaches interested and determined students for free or next to nothing, and won't teach the uninterested for $$$.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, but they're the real low-end. Not representative of the average, definitely not the high-end. My impression of the high-end - a CMA grandmaster who teaches interested and determined students for free or next to nothing, and won't teach the uninterested for $$$.

Like william Chung?

At a cheeky $650 a month. Gradings extra.
Full-Time Training Grandmaster William Cheung's Global Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu Association