This was always my impression as well. He had taught at the secondary and college level in the Philippines I understand and was always a big fan of higher education.
JD is using professor title for master!!!
- Thread starter Guro Harold
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This was always my impression as well. He had taught at the secondary and college level in the Philippines I understand and was always a big fan of higher education.
P
Parker
Guest
I once had a BJJ guy I met at the local playpen (MA school) up from Brazil try to call me Professor. I had no idea what the hell he was talking about, as I am a close combat guy, not a martial artist and will likely never use that term for myself. In any case, I guess the term professor refers to instructor in his (Gracie-esque) style.
Really nice guy too, very respectful, yada.
If the guy in the header of this thread wants to call himself Master, and also want ME to do so, well, :roflmao: Renegade can tell you I really do not call anyone Master, it is not in me to do so. Respect for the instructor is not as much a given as earned, thru demeanor, attitude, ability to convey useful and helpful information and respect for the student.
I have been in this game for a mere 14 years now and about 1994 learned what a good instructor was and a bad one. I will not put up with a bad one and have since been on first name basis with all of my instructors.
Had I attended the 2000 camp I could have met Prof Prensas. I am sorry I did not attend, work conflicts with life unfortunately. Remy Prensas earned that title well and truly. To have a guy who has put in 30% of the time without the thoroughly extensive background I know Professor Remy Prensas to have had using the same title and introducing himself as such, arrogant.
I also used to get unsolicited emails from his group weekly offering to sell me stuff like videotaopes. :biggun: A few pointed questions about who and why, they stopped. Again, it is the arrogance of the assumption of the title, and the inference that I would care rather than having it conveyed either by a governing body, a higher ranking true master or even a large affectionate cotiere of long-time devoted students that is at issue.
I remain fully interested in Modern Arnis and hope to see it develop further in a truly warry fashion, for knives and sticks and all those nasty locks/ breaks/ gouges are not designed for love and kisses. :ripper: :mp5: Isn't all this warry stuff fun?
Parker
Really nice guy too, very respectful, yada.
If the guy in the header of this thread wants to call himself Master, and also want ME to do so, well, :roflmao: Renegade can tell you I really do not call anyone Master, it is not in me to do so. Respect for the instructor is not as much a given as earned, thru demeanor, attitude, ability to convey useful and helpful information and respect for the student.
I have been in this game for a mere 14 years now and about 1994 learned what a good instructor was and a bad one. I will not put up with a bad one and have since been on first name basis with all of my instructors.
Had I attended the 2000 camp I could have met Prof Prensas. I am sorry I did not attend, work conflicts with life unfortunately. Remy Prensas earned that title well and truly. To have a guy who has put in 30% of the time without the thoroughly extensive background I know Professor Remy Prensas to have had using the same title and introducing himself as such, arrogant.
I also used to get unsolicited emails from his group weekly offering to sell me stuff like videotaopes. :biggun: A few pointed questions about who and why, they stopped. Again, it is the arrogance of the assumption of the title, and the inference that I would care rather than having it conveyed either by a governing body, a higher ranking true master or even a large affectionate cotiere of long-time devoted students that is at issue.
I remain fully interested in Modern Arnis and hope to see it develop further in a truly warry fashion, for knives and sticks and all those nasty locks/ breaks/ gouges are not designed for love and kisses. :ripper: :mp5: Isn't all this warry stuff fun?
Parker
S
Shugo
Guest
I too am amazed of the use of the "Professor" title on JD's site/organization. To me...a Professor comes with decades of martial arts experience. Like a Grandmaster...but one who constantly improves their style/art.
All true arts are the same. The styles are just different ways of teaching.
But back to the JD thing...
I can't believe that he calls himself Grandmaster...and now a Professor. Not even Remy A. Presas' Children call themselves Grandmasters or Professors. When meeting & training with JD in the past...I liked the way he was with the students...training and helping everyone out. But when Remy Presas got ill...it's like JD got power crazed or something.
Has anyone seen some of the major Martial Arts magazines? JD has put out 1/2 page ads and saying he's the "Designated Grand Master"...
Hmm...what does that tell you... "designated" :shrug:
:ticked:
All true arts are the same. The styles are just different ways of teaching.
But back to the JD thing...
I can't believe that he calls himself Grandmaster...and now a Professor. Not even Remy A. Presas' Children call themselves Grandmasters or Professors. When meeting & training with JD in the past...I liked the way he was with the students...training and helping everyone out. But when Remy Presas got ill...it's like JD got power crazed or something.
Has anyone seen some of the major Martial Arts magazines? JD has put out 1/2 page ads and saying he's the "Designated Grand Master"...
Hmm...what does that tell you... "designated" :shrug:
:ticked:
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Holy crap, this is a pretty long talk. I haven't even had time to read them all, and I don't have much time for a reply, unfortunatily, so please excuse all gramatical and spelling errors.
Let's just say that I'm a young friend of Professors; I'm only 24, but I have been with professor since I was 15, when I went to my very first seminar in MI. Now, I don't know much, but I have seen a lot in terms of status, and Ranking under Professor, so listen and learn.
Professor was a genius in technique, but he never really understood belts, or 'American' ranking systems, as I'll call it. He was also about the nicest man you'd ever meet. Every-one was his "Good Friend". If he just met you, and had to intoduce you to someone a minute later, he'd be introducing you, in his thick Filipino accent, "Dis is my bery good friend (so-and-so) from Chi-cago (or some other city)." Those who knew him know exactly what I'm talking about. He was so kind, and generous that this unfortunatily effected the way he would rank people.
It is my understanding that when he was up-in-coming in the Philipines, there wasn't a belt system like there is in the U.S.; everyone just knew who was good.
So, he comes to the U.S., and he has to basically create a belt system under a culture with a completely different mentality about rank then what he was used to. He never completely caught on.
'Caught on' to what, you ask? Caught on to how much emphasis people would put on a belt, rank, or even titles and that in many peoples eyes this status would outweigh anything else regarding technique, skill, or the art in general. And as it has shown since his death, a title would even be more important to some then the genuine continuation of his art in itself.
Another thing about Professor that many of his Friends and students will remember is that he was a jokester, and he just plain liked to make people feel good, and (as he would put it) "smile". One time at my house in Michigan he met my little brother Jimmy, a 13 yr old kid. Jimmy was the smallest kid in his grade, and had never met Professor before. Professor wacked the stick around w/ him a few times, patted him on the head, and told him he was very good. You see, he said that to a lot of people. He told him that if he trained, then soon he would be grandmaster, or least maybe better then his Brothers (refering to me and my other little Bro. Nate). It was a good time, and we all got a good laugh. Does that mean that Jimmy, who will be 16 in September, is to be the next Grandmaster? Of course not! He even told me a few times that he wanted me to carry the art, and that someday I would. Did I take his words ans set them in stone? No! He said those things cause I was/am young w/ potential, and he wanted to make me feel good. So, I guess that's the difference; I understand the kind of man he was and that he just wanted to make people happy more then anything, and that when he said certain things, he didn't expect it to be taken as Gospel. That was another thing that he never got; that some would take what he had said as Gospel. He never realized how much of an Icon he was. This was also what made him such a great man.
Did you know that I know a guy who professor gave his Lakan Tatlo to in a train, with no test or anything, just because the guy was helping him out with a transportation issue. ARE YOU ALL GETTING IT!?
Profesor was just a nice guy who happend to be extremely proficient and deadly. He wanted people to train and to get good, but more importantly, to have fun, and to be friends. He hoped, or more like assumed that people would focus on training and learning, not on status or title.
Unfortunatily, people used him, and they used his kindness. Don't get me wrong, there are those who earned their rank. There are also those who followed profesor, brown-nosed, pouted, excluded others, and @$$-kissed their way into their status. They used our beloved teacher, and that is abhorrable! They would whine, and professor would give them a status to make them happy. Why? Because he really thought they were his good friends who wouldn't use him. Unfortunatily, they were using him all along.
And now what do we have? We have those who stayed true to Remy, and even though I'm young with lifetimes more to learn, I'd like to think I'm one of those who stayed true. Then, there's the others. They used the Professor on his death bed, and now they're giving themselves new titles. Am I suprised...No. Angry, but not suprised.
Well, I guess the moral is, the ones who possess the true "status" that they claim will show it through their technique, just like the old days. The others will hopefully fall by the wayside.
I'm out of time. Hopefully we all learned something...I know that I sure did.
Let's just say that I'm a young friend of Professors; I'm only 24, but I have been with professor since I was 15, when I went to my very first seminar in MI. Now, I don't know much, but I have seen a lot in terms of status, and Ranking under Professor, so listen and learn.
Professor was a genius in technique, but he never really understood belts, or 'American' ranking systems, as I'll call it. He was also about the nicest man you'd ever meet. Every-one was his "Good Friend". If he just met you, and had to intoduce you to someone a minute later, he'd be introducing you, in his thick Filipino accent, "Dis is my bery good friend (so-and-so) from Chi-cago (or some other city)." Those who knew him know exactly what I'm talking about. He was so kind, and generous that this unfortunatily effected the way he would rank people.
It is my understanding that when he was up-in-coming in the Philipines, there wasn't a belt system like there is in the U.S.; everyone just knew who was good.
So, he comes to the U.S., and he has to basically create a belt system under a culture with a completely different mentality about rank then what he was used to. He never completely caught on.
'Caught on' to what, you ask? Caught on to how much emphasis people would put on a belt, rank, or even titles and that in many peoples eyes this status would outweigh anything else regarding technique, skill, or the art in general. And as it has shown since his death, a title would even be more important to some then the genuine continuation of his art in itself.
Another thing about Professor that many of his Friends and students will remember is that he was a jokester, and he just plain liked to make people feel good, and (as he would put it) "smile". One time at my house in Michigan he met my little brother Jimmy, a 13 yr old kid. Jimmy was the smallest kid in his grade, and had never met Professor before. Professor wacked the stick around w/ him a few times, patted him on the head, and told him he was very good. You see, he said that to a lot of people. He told him that if he trained, then soon he would be grandmaster, or least maybe better then his Brothers (refering to me and my other little Bro. Nate). It was a good time, and we all got a good laugh. Does that mean that Jimmy, who will be 16 in September, is to be the next Grandmaster? Of course not! He even told me a few times that he wanted me to carry the art, and that someday I would. Did I take his words ans set them in stone? No! He said those things cause I was/am young w/ potential, and he wanted to make me feel good. So, I guess that's the difference; I understand the kind of man he was and that he just wanted to make people happy more then anything, and that when he said certain things, he didn't expect it to be taken as Gospel. That was another thing that he never got; that some would take what he had said as Gospel. He never realized how much of an Icon he was. This was also what made him such a great man.
Did you know that I know a guy who professor gave his Lakan Tatlo to in a train, with no test or anything, just because the guy was helping him out with a transportation issue. ARE YOU ALL GETTING IT!?
Profesor was just a nice guy who happend to be extremely proficient and deadly. He wanted people to train and to get good, but more importantly, to have fun, and to be friends. He hoped, or more like assumed that people would focus on training and learning, not on status or title.
Unfortunatily, people used him, and they used his kindness. Don't get me wrong, there are those who earned their rank. There are also those who followed profesor, brown-nosed, pouted, excluded others, and @$$-kissed their way into their status. They used our beloved teacher, and that is abhorrable! They would whine, and professor would give them a status to make them happy. Why? Because he really thought they were his good friends who wouldn't use him. Unfortunatily, they were using him all along.
And now what do we have? We have those who stayed true to Remy, and even though I'm young with lifetimes more to learn, I'd like to think I'm one of those who stayed true. Then, there's the others. They used the Professor on his death bed, and now they're giving themselves new titles. Am I suprised...No. Angry, but not suprised.
Well, I guess the moral is, the ones who possess the true "status" that they claim will show it through their technique, just like the old days. The others will hopefully fall by the wayside.
I'm out of time. Hopefully we all learned something...I know that I sure did.
I
Icepick
Guest
PAUL
This is not correct.
In his book that was published in 1973, so before he left the Philippines for the US, he already had his belt system printed.
But I agree that he wanted to maker feel people happy and that he was an exeptional man in many ways.
Datu Dieter Knüttel
You just hit the nail right on the head! :cheers:
That has got to be one of the best, and most honest posts I have yet to read on Martial Talk.
I do not think anyone could have said it any better!
:jedi1:
That has got to be one of the best, and most honest posts I have yet to read on Martial Talk.
I do not think anyone could have said it any better!
:jedi1:
Great post and I agree with most of it. But, as a high-ranking black belt in Shotokan and Judo, I think the Professor must have had some understanding of the belt ranking system even while in the Philippines.
I do agree that the Professor gave out rank very easily and for all sorts of help that had little to do with the martial arts, and that people took advantage of this.
I do agree that the Professor gave out rank very easily and for all sorts of help that had little to do with the martial arts, and that people took advantage of this.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Hey, look, I qouted myself!
Anyway's, everything I say there is true, but apparently I need to clarify. When I said "up-in-coming", I was refering to Professor's training days. After he wrote his book, he was already well established in the Philipines. This isn't "up-in-coming" to me; when he wrote his book he was already there.
As I said, I was refering to his training day's. After training with his grandfather in his family style until he was 14, he traveled to different area's of the Philipines, learning and training in different styles. I've heard a few of his stories about the old Balintawak day's, and so forth. I'm sure some of you may have too. Well, trust me, he didn't talk about who was what belt. Sorry to ruin the fantasy for some people, but I highly doubt that when training with his Grandfather, in Balintawak, or in any other form of Kali/Escrima/Arnis (or whatever) that they were all Gi-ed and belted up. I even have reason to believe that after he nationalized the art, they probably didn't walk around wearing belts during regular training sessions. The photo shoots, however, were always a different story.
Yes, he did train in systems like Judo and Karate, where a strict belt system was incorported. But still, the rank systems are different in the states. If you read the book even Antes 1-6 just wore white, then 3 levels of a blue rimmed brown belt, then red rimmed black. Gee....I count only 3 actual belts there, as opposed to a different color or stripe to denote every rank.
You see, the real difference is the US is very capitalist about everything. I'm not trying to start a political arguement, I'm just stating what I believe is fact. We silly Americans are used too having everything packaged and sold to us. Belts, rank, uniforms, patches, etc., is all a way for people to package and sell the Martial Arts here in the states. Now, don't get me wrong...I like a cool T-shirt, or even a cool certificate just as much as the next person. I don't mean to deminish that. That's not why I train, though. Sure, everyone else will SAY that these "things" aren't why they train either, but ask yourselves this: how many would have quit long ago if there wasn't the merchindising, and the ranking, and the status? Out of the higher ranked, I'll bet that many of the self-titled masters would have been the first to go.
So, I meant what I said, and I still do. Using rank and status OVER training and skill, even to market and capitalize, was not Professors way. Period.
Sorry to bore you w/ another long one :erg:, but I wanted to clarify. My last entry was only to make a vital point. I also want to say that I don't really want to argue :argue: play semantics, a history game, or a political game, because if one focuses on that, then I'm afraid one will miss the point.
PAUL
Rochester, MI
Indeed, I believe that even today Balintawak does not even certify instructors, let alone grant belts--one simply trains in it.
I fully agree about rank/titles being given out to easily here and there having been too many who seemed overly interested in them.
T
Terry
Guest
Paul:"You got it, Baby!"
Originally posted by Terry
"You got it, Baby!"
Welcome aboard Terry!
Tim Hartman
:cheers:
T
Terry
Guest
Tim,
Thank you sir! I couldn't help myself. The insight of this young man, and his understanding of Professor and his motives was too right-on to ignore.
Folks might do well to read his post and try to obsorb and take to heart the truth contained therein.
By the way, congrats on your MA instructor of the year award!
Thank you sir! I couldn't help myself. The insight of this young man, and his understanding of Professor and his motives was too right-on to ignore.
Folks might do well to read his post and try to obsorb and take to heart the truth contained therein.
By the way, congrats on your MA instructor of the year award!
Thanks!
Great to see Terry here--one of the nicest martial artists you'll ever meet.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
True that!
Terry's da man!:ultracool
I appreciate what you said above, by the way. Thank you.
Definatily welcome aboard!!!
Terry's da man!:ultracool
I appreciate what you said above, by the way. Thank you.
Definatily welcome aboard!!!
D
DoctorB
Guest
I know this is an old post that I am replying to however I do want to point out that Arnisador is correct, Ms. McManus may have an Adjunct Instructorship at Norwich University and as such is not entitled to use the academic designation of "Professor". However, there is another possibility, she was hired as a part-time faculty member, through the Physical education Department, specificly to teach the Modern Arnis course. In that case, she is not an Adjunct Faculty member and would most certinly not have an academic title of "Professor". It is generally the custom for an adjunct designation to be given to a person who is teaching on a part-time basis at one college and is still maintaining a full time teaching position in a diofferent depatmant at the same college or holds a faculty position at another college... if Ms. McManus, does not meet one of the the latter two condition of employment, then is Very Unlikely that she would be considered as an "Adjunct" at Norwich University.
This information is provided based on my understanding of the use of academic terminology and titles from my 34 years as a faculty member at 5 colleges in the United States. I will acknowledge that Norwich university might have handled he hiring and titles differently than I have experienced in my career, so do not just assume that I am absolutely correct with regard to this matter.
The bottom line for me... Ms. McManus is not qualified to use the academic title of "Professor" merely because is teaching at a college! Her incorrect usage of the title as a student of Modern Arnis does not even merit discussion.
Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
Professor of Sociology
Adjunct Professor of Physical Education
Erie Community College. Orchard Park, NY
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Hi Terry,
Long time no see. Great to hear you up on line.
Dan Anderson
Whoa - with this last post I am now an orange belt.
Long time no see. Great to hear you up on line.
Dan Anderson
Whoa - with this last post I am now an orange belt.
T
Terry
Guest
Hi Dan,It's good to see you here, also! I've really appreciated your communications with Dan and David. Now, we're getting somewhere!
I have difficulty communicating in an open forum, so I will probably get in touch with you with your e-mail address.
It has been refreshing reading some of the more (what's the word?) "mature" attitudes starting to come to the surface in the recent posts.
Paul's insights blew me away. These insights were garnered over a ten year (or longer) period of time of being around Professor, which starts him off a quite a young man.
Sorry to ramble, but good to talk to you, and continue to do well!
Terry
Hey Terry,
How great to hear your voice! I am looking forward to seeing you in Mich. soon. I'm glad your here...................and there.
It is also good to see Paul here. How ya' doin' Paul. How's Nate and the WWF?
Dan McConnell
Modern Arnis of Ohio (that's mao)
Hilliard Budo Center
How great to hear your voice!
I am looking forward to seeing you in Mich. soon. I'm glad your here...................and there. It is also good to see Paul here. How ya' doin' Paul. How's Nate and the WWF?
Dan McConnell
Modern Arnis of Ohio (that's mao)
Hilliard Budo Center
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