JD is using professor title for master!!!

[Guro Harold]

In reply to Arnisador and Datu Dieter's post:

It appears if you read the sequence of the camp chronicles that Lisa is now a "master instuctor". She was a third degree around the time of the Veracruz trip and from memory, which could be faulty, she was a second degree last year when she came to the Raleigh camp.

So maybe she was promoted when she was appointed in her position on JD's IMAF board.

Hmmm, should I open up a can a worms by comparing skill levels between her, Karen "The Amazon", or Lori.

Kaith, where are the smiles for "opening a can of worms" or "I am in deep **** now!"

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Dont think i got those...but, look on mysmilies.com. if ya see 1, I'll add it.

 

[Susumu Kodai]

When you talk with him. Ask. Did he test for rank, or just have it given in back room. Someone on here ask question "Is Elvis Really an 8th Degree Black Belt?" I say, did he test for it in front of his peers? If not, then no. He is, how you say? Paper-Black-Belt.

Last I see on site, he is 3rd, then he is 5th. Now, he Grandmaster. Thats interesting.
Let us all see documentation. Proof. Look on http://archive.org you can see how he rewrite history to make him look well, and others look poor. Jeff Delany very dishonorable.

I still say, you no test for rank, you not really rank.


I remain, Kodai.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Sosumu Kodai,
This is interesting. Walk me through website you posted so that I can find for myself what you said about the ascension of JD's rank. Very interesting.
Dan Anderson :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm familiar with archive.org. Its a very good resource for looking back through time to how websites used to be.

Short form is http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://modernarnis.com

every date with a * by it is a detected change.

(If that doesnt work, just goto archive.org and type in modernarnis.com as the search term, and it should show you the history.)

Earliest date I see is in 1998. I'm curious too... What information are you refering to Kodai?



:asian:

 

[Tapps]

Everyone relax.

I have personally decreed that for a period of one year anyone who has ever met Professor Presas may use any title they wish.

At the end of one year I will eat thier souls !!!

Hope this clears things up.

"Almighty Tapps
Great and Undisputed
Grand Poo Bah
of all things
involvong sticks"


:angry: :angry: : :angel: :angel: :angry: :angry:"Almighty Tapps
Great and Undisputed
Grand Poo Bah
of all things
involvong sticks"

 

[Guro Harold]

"Soul Eater"
"King of Modern Arnis"

Common denominator, Buffalo, NY, Hmmm.
:idunno: :redeme:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The infamous Buffalo connection, ya found us out. <cue dramatic theme music> Actually, Theres quite a few folks on here from WNY, since I'm located there, and have been doing alot of local marketing of MartialTalk to the schools here. I also run a portal for martialartists in the WNY area (wnymartialarts.com) which will be folded into MartialTalk shortly.



Ok, I've started looking through the archives, and while a very interesting read on the history of the IMAF under GM Presas, I'm not seeing anything obvious. Someone help me here, I feel like I'm looking for a needle in a haystack.



BTW Tapps, Can I be Ohkhi for Life? I never had the pleasure of training with GM Presas, but I need a title that fits my role in most classes I've been in. :rofl:

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

To all:

From Memory, I found it interesting also how one
day I was reading and JD was Lakan Talo and then
the next GM Presas is sick and then a couple
of days later he is Lakan Lima and then a short
period later one of the Co-successors. Other
terms were also used, but I prefer not to use them
even in snide comments.

I have not searched the archives, but was a
regular browser to check out the next seminars
and availabel dates when GM Presas was near by
to get him to stop by and chat ;~).

Have a nice Day

Rich

 

[Dan Anderson]

Yo Tapps,
I hereby proclaim myself Supreme Sovereign Monarch of Modern Arnis. I claim this title by both divine right and by alphabetical order. If you wish to come and eat my soul, you'll have to settle for skivvies instead :moon: .
Supremely yours,
Dan Anderson :asian:

 

[Tapps]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

Yo Tapps,
I hereby proclaim myself Supreme Sovereign Monarch of Modern Arnis. I claim this title by both divine right and by alphabetical order. If you wish to come and eat my soul, you'll have to settle for skivvies instead :moon: .
Supremely yours,
Dan Anderson :asian:

What kind of wine goes with the soul of a West Coast guy ?

By the way, Buffalo was built on a hellmound and is a center
for demonic ..... Oh wait, that's Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Never mind

 

[Susumu Kodai]

You all funny people.:rofl:

I post my information soon. Am verifying a few parts first. Must be correct.

Kaith is right. Do search on modernarnis.com on archive.org. also see professorpresas.com. read news. compare information from camps. see who has sudden promotions. see who disappears. first delaney is 3rd, then 5th, then co-grandmaster, then sole grandmaster. all in 6 month time. something funny up. when did he test for 5th? with who? where? why does delaney always rewrite history to make himself look good?

IMAF die when real Grandmaster become ill. All that left is grave robbers. they promote selves for personal glory, dishonoring memory of man who gave so much to them.


I also have information on MOTTs, and DATUs. Very good reading... many deceitful people in there. some good ones. many dishonorable. history tells tale of many lies, many falsehoods. many come out of shadows. picking bones of great man, all for own glory. many claim to lead. most not worthy. they are not of family. i will say more later.


I remain, Kodai.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The family already has an organization. Their web site is at http://modernarnis.com Delaney's organization lost the usage of the domain shortly after GM Presas' death last year, and have since reestablished a new site.

So, what you're saying in summary is that since Remy's death, JD's been doing his own thing? I can't see much wrong with that, it is his organization afterall. Again, wiether I agree with him or not, it is his organization, and he can do what he wants. Grant rank, creat titles, promote without requiring testing, etc. He can call himself "Supreme Grandmaster of All Modern Arnis" if he likes. :shrug: His playground, his rules.

As an aside: I've seem many folks using the title of Professor in various arts. Can anyone name a few, and where they are in the grand scheme of things? Are they all art founders, grandmasters themselves, high ranks, or what? I mean, while it seems to be disrespectful to Remy, is it really that unusual to have a "professor" title? Just curious.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

As an aside: I've seem many folks using the title of Professor in various arts. Can anyone name a few, and where they are in the grand scheme of things? Are they all art founders, grandmasters themselves, high ranks, or what? I mean, while it seems to be disrespectful to Remy, is it really that unusual to have a "professor" title?

I think that it became more popular after Prof. Presas became well known but he was not the first. See this thread for its codified use in kenpo, and this thread.

Prof. Wally Jay
Prof. Henry Seishiro Okazaki
Prof. Emperado
Prof. Florendo Visitation
Prof. Kenji Tomiki

A Yahoo! search turns up many many more.

 

[Guro Harold]

All,

So does Professor translate into "master" or "grandmaster" in those examples?

How about for Modern Arnis? Besides Michael Bates, did the Professor give the title of "professor" to anyone who was not a Datu?

Even for other Filipino styles: Tuhon is different than Grand Tuhon.
A Puyong (sic?)Guro is different than a guro and grandmaster.

True, it is JD's organization and with it he can do whatever he likes but the title "Professor" to me means grandmaster and that you have contributed much to the art for more years than most of us have been living on this world, let alone have studied.

Just my $0.02,

Palusut

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Part of the problem is a confusion over what all the different titles mean. Follow the bouncing geek and see if any of this makes sence:

Michael Bates is a 4th degree BB. He's also a MOTT. "The highest level of achievement in MA". He's also a "Professor".

Wait.

Remy was a "Professor". He was also a Grandmaster. Traditionally a 10th degree.

Hmm... It gets better. We not swerve to MOTT-Ville.

JD is a MOTT. He's also a 5th. He's also a grandmaster. So, is he a 10th now?
Ken Smith is a MOTT. He is a 5th.
Randy Shea is a MOTT. Also a grandmaster. Also, last recorded as a 5th.


we bounce to left field now....Datu-Land
Kelly Worden is a 6th. He's also a Datu.
Dieter Knüttel is a 6th. He's a Datu.
Tim Hartman is a 6th. He's a Datu.
Dan Anderson is also a 6th. Not a Datu though. He's a Senior Master.
Ric Jornales is a Datu. No rank in MA though.


So, assuming the following is true, whats the scoop?
If we assume that as has been stated elsewhere, that both the MOTT and DATU "titles" are seperate from rank, how do we decipher the rest?

Despite having 6 Datus (all 6th degree) Remy reportedly chose to create the title of MOTT, and promoted several individuals to 5th degree, and placed 2 of them at the top (JD and RS). For whatever reasons, we now end up with 2 IMAF's, each headed by 1 of the co-successors, who are now both suddenly Grandmasters.

I'm confused.

Lets recap, shall we? Going by rank we have the following:

Remy - Grandmaster, 10th degree, Professor
JD - Grandmaster, 10th degree or 5th?, MOTT
Randy Shea - Grandmaster, 10th degree or 5th?, MOTT
Kelly Worden is a 6th. He's also a Datu.
Dieter Knüttel is a 6th. He's a Datu.
Tim Hartman is a 6th. He's a Datu.
Dan Anderson is also a 6th. Senior Master.
Ric Jornales is a Datu. No rank in MA though.
Michael Bates - Professor. Is that 10th? or the 4th?
Ken Smith is a MOTT. He is a 5th.
Lisa McManus - rank unknown, but is a Professor too.

I left out some folks, just to shorten this, and mean no slights or insults to anyone listed. You're all just examples, so please, no one get yer panties in a knot. I pulled some info from various sites, and a few threads here. As you can see, its confusing.

I don't have any answers either.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Mr. Bates using the title...in a way, I see it as a tribute to Remy. Especially if it was the "in" joke as was mentioned.

Lisa McManus is a somewhat different story. According to their website, as of Feb. 10th, she was a Master Instructor, but on the 16th she was a "Professor".

I'm even more confused now. Gah! I think I'll go study JKD...at least thats not as complex. :rofl:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Michael Bates is a 4th degree BB. He's also a MOTT.

Is this so? He is a MOTT?

I think I'll go study JKD...at least thats not as complex.

Belt rank is becoming more common in JKD schools, I believe, and they also have levels of instructorship if I am not mistaken.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I thought he was...if I'm wrong, please let me know. I doublechecked and don't see him listed on RS's site as a MOTT... maybe he isn't.

ok, dug thru archive.org.... don't see his name listed on the press release (which is no longer available on JD site)

I stand corrected.

 

[Ryukyu]

I had received a notice from Ms McManus about an Arnis seminar in my area and was also confufused byher use of the professor title. Being that I don't know everyone in professor Presas's organiztion I asked abourt this in an e-mail and she explained her professor statuts as:
I am a Professor at Norwich University teaching tactics and Modern Arnis to United States Marine Staff,
Cadets and U.S Naval Personnel and Cadets.
Maybe this doesn't clear things up too much since it is a logical assumtion that the use of the term professor on Modern Arnis websites and literature refers to one's status in Modern Arnis. Or maybe its just an honest mistake. At any rate I hope this is helpful. Yours in the arts, Ryukyu

 

[Celadora]

This would be a logical explination. But, if this is the case, then a stardard of consistancy needs to be set. She is a university professor in tactics and Modern Arnis (is there now a doctorate program in Modern Arnis?) and therefore uses a professor title. Michael Bates, however, uses the title as a ¨nickname¨ given to him by the Professor (the real one). Yet the two, with clearly different standards and sentiments, are used together in the same sentence in the same web page as if they signify equality in rank and achievement. This is not a question of skill level, but of plain and simple definition of terms. One needs consistancy in ranking.