Is Wing Chun being used the wrong way in fighting?
- Thread starter geezer
- Start date
Here is another high, low punches combo.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah I agree. Any response he makes will create an opening somewhere. Even if he parries and returns fire.
This strategy is also called, "Knock on the door. When your opponent opens it, you then enter."
As Geezer pointed out. This is really far to much for a forum. It could be a series of books.
Some basics. Everything starts from the ground up. Power comes from the ground. You have to maintain balance, you have to to able to receive incoming energy while maintaining balance and structure. You joints must be used properly and you must maintain shoulder connection to the body. The forearm must be seated in the elbow joint and the punch must rotate in a way to keep the connection. The first form trains the snake ging, the second form the crane ging the third form combines the two. One is vertical energy generation and power issue the other is horizontal . There are the variations depending on distance, contact are you strike or throwing. this depends on the energy received.
Everything above would just be a chapter heading in a book or a book all itself.
I don't believe in setting traps. Its a waste of time. A long time ago I was playing around with a top JKD instructor and he was very surprised at what happened when he used fakes to set me up. Your intent is always to cause damage . I will say I have sparred with professional boxers so I learned via pain and broken nose check bone and concussions what works for me and what doesn't. Others may have different experiences
That's how the TCMA punch combo "black tiger eat the heart" is used. You punch your opponent's head, your opponent raises arm to block it, you then punch to his chest.
In the following clip, his both punches are on the same level. IMO, it doesn't make sense.
I agree John, We train it as follow the body. The opponents body shows you where to strike next or throw them etc This also ties in to Dim Mak if you believe in that stuff..3 points to strike so the first strike opens up the next point etc.
One thing about the video. While we train the same basic thing the first punch becomes a lop. It can clear the area for a second strike along the same line
One thing about the video. While we train the same basic thing the first punch becomes a lop. It can clear the area for a second strike along the same line
wckf92
Master of Arts
Yup! And, a lot of wing chun people fail to apply this to their WC IMO.
This was a day 1 speech I still remember to this day! My instructor preached this simple fact. Any time your opponent sticks anything near you...cause it pain!
You have to open your opponent's guard before you can punch him. When you open his guard, that's "set up".
- A groin kick, face punch combo is the most common set up used in striking art.
- A pull followed by a push is the most common set up used in wrestling art.
Since your opponent is a moving object, your 1st punch may miss. But if you use your 1st punch tp bait your opponent to block it, you then grab his blocking arm, and throw your 2nd punch, your 2nd punch will have much better chance to hit your opponent.
Here is a double hooks combo. You use the 1st hook to set up a wrist grab, you then use the 2nd hook to hit.
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Please elaborate on the biomechanics/alignment of how this is done?
I don't look at things the way you do. Sure the opponent moves. That's reality . I may end up with a wrist grab I don't set up for one. . The example is only very basic to train an idea and not a representation of reality. People don't just leave their arm outstretched and not moving so you can just grab it.. You said the opponent is a moving object so are their limbs. The back hand does not stay cocked so far back and frozen in place. The person stepping in has many openings that could easily be attacked
I feel that using examples like this to indicate actual fighting usage is fantasy fu and only for training beginners in some fighting ideas but should not be used to train actual fighting effectiveness
The top example is not setting a trap or faking. He is doing a standard inside pak/lop to open and cross the bridge. He is not trying to use a fake or movement to illicit a response that he can then attack through. So while a great example of what it is showing it has no barring on what I am talking about
I feel that using examples like this to indicate actual fighting usage is fantasy fu and only for training beginners in some fighting ideas but should not be used to train actual fighting effectiveness
The top example is not setting a trap or faking. He is doing a standard inside pak/lop to open and cross the bridge. He is not trying to use a fake or movement to illicit a response that he can then attack through. So while a great example of what it is showing it has no barring on what I am talking about
The upper arm must rotate into the shoulder. Most people allow the upper arm to pull out of the shoulder
Yeah, I think the problems comes partly because while many teach WC and martial arts in general very few have actually fought trained fighters from different arts . People that understand real fighting have different outlooks and understandings
When you throw a punch, if your your arm
- make contact on your opponent's arm, you grab it.
- doesn't make contact on your opponent's arm, depending on his arm moving path, your change your arm moving path, and meet his arm half way.
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Yes but that is not what is happening in the example you put up. Person A stands with a frozen outstretched lead arm and person B just reaches out and grabs it. Very different than throwing a punch making contact with a lead arm and loping it.
One clip can only show one example.
Here is a different example that
- You use a hook punch and try to grab your opponent's wrist, your opponent rotates his arm to avoid contact, and hook punch back at you.
- You change your hook into a back fist, arm wrap.
When you throw a hook punch as a set up, you have to expect different responds (either make contact, or doesn't make contact).
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Are you referring to the glenohumeral joint? As in when tucking in the elbows to create Mai jang?
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Good question. I have no clue about the proper name s for the different joints or parts of the body in general.
The body is designed to move in circular or spherical fashion as opposed to a piston like fashion if that makes sense. In the example KFW posted above the way the person in black throws the circular punch . The arm is not staying connected to the shoulder joint its all arm no body.. .
This is why all punches should be trained in 3 dimensional.
When you throw a hook punch, if your arm can't contact on your opponent's arm, you can change your hook punch into a back fist. If you still can't make any arm contact, your other hand can punch as:
- hook,
- cross,
- uppercut,
- overhand.
In other words, even if your 1st punch, and 2nd punch fail, it will still create a chance for your 3rd punch.
So it's good idea to train the following combos (no matter which MA system that you may come from):
1. right hook, right back fist, right hook.
2. right hook, right back fist, left hook.
3. right hook, right back fist, left cross.
4. right hook, right back fist, left uppercut.
5. right hook, right back fist, left overhand.
Is there a clip or photo you can post of someone who have their arm connected to the shoulder?
