Is Wing Chun being used the wrong way in fighting?

[Martial D]

IMO the whole of Wing Chun is the punch. The whole rest of the system serves as support for that one thing.

Lots of chunners focus heavily on controlling limbs, and imo that is why they don't win fights.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

IMO the whole of Wing Chun is the punch. The whole rest of the system serves as support for that one thing.

Lots of chunners focus heavily on controlling limbs, and imo that is why they don't win fights.

But just punch may not be enough. You have to know at least how to

- catch a kick (controlling the limb - kicking leg).
- take your opponent down.

Otherwise you may just let that opportunity to past without knowing.

 

[Martial D]

But just punch may not be enough. You have to know at least how to

- catch a kick (controlling the limb - kicking leg).
- take your opponent down.

Otherwise you may just let that opportunity to past without knowing.

Well sure. That and a whole lot more too.

But that doesn't alter my point.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But just punch may not be enough. You have to know at least how to

- catch a kick (controlling the limb - kicking leg).
- take your opponent down.

Otherwise you may just let that opportunity to past without knowing.

I'm not sure that's absolutely necessary (and I say that as someone who trains both those things, and a lot more). A good boxer is quite well prepared for good defense against most unarmed assailants. He only really gets in trouble if the assailant is a skilled grappler.

 

[TMA17]

What about palm strikes? There seems to be more emphasis on the chain punch. Palm strikes appear to be quite effective and you won't break your hand.

 

[Callen]

What about palm strikes? There seems to be more emphasis on the chain punch. Palm strikes appear to be quite effective and you won't break your hand.

Palm strikes are actually quite common in several Wing Chun lineages.

However, it is important to remember that the same core principals get applied to all attacking actions within the system. The palm strike and punch are unified concepts; hit from where the hands are, drive from the elbow, chase center, follow- up etc... When the hands are free, attack directly with no hesitation.

 

[Martial D]

What about palm strikes? There seems to be more emphasis on the chain punch. Palm strikes appear to be quite effective and you won't break your hand.

Well yes, there is a whole syllabus of techniques, including kicks palms elbows pokes etc as well as sau shapes footwork, theory and principles.

All built around that one little punch. In WC, at least my WC, your knuckles on his face is the end goal. Everything else in the system is built to get you there.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

your knuckles on his face is the end goal. Everything else in the system is built to get you there.

Agree! All Taiji guys like to talk about how soft they are. Most WC guys like to talk about Tan, Beng, Fu. The Tan, Beng, Fu are just to help you to land your fist on your opponent's face.

 

[geezer]

...Most WC guys like to talk about Tan, Beng, Fu. The Tan, Beng, Fu are just to help you to land your fist on your opponent's face.

Agreed. One of your best observations on WC in a while, John!

 

[drop bear]

What about palm strikes? There seems to be more emphasis on the chain punch. Palm strikes appear to be quite effective and you won't break your hand.

You can still break your wrist though. Or your fingers.

 

[wayfaring]

A "Wing Chun specific format" of competition is not a solution. Such a thing would be an admission that Wing Chun can't hack it against other styles in widely used combat sport rulesets.

One of my sidais became a WKA kickboxing world champion. Several others have had some success in MMA and kickboxing locally and at big shows in Asia. Alan Orr is the best known but hardly the only guy that has made WC work in combat Sports.

If you can't fight with your Wing Chun with gloves and adapt to rulesets, I'm not betting on you in a defense situation. Other WC people have done it. No excuses.

Yes for sure. What fun is it without being able to do combat sport rulesets?

Some of the other disciplines use art specific competitions as an alternative or many times as a "warmup" or "rookie team" alternative to fights. For example all of the grappling comps MMA fighters do, EBI, FTW, ADCC, boxing, kickboxing as you say, SanDa (had a dude roll thru trained with Cung Le - awesome).

Now please do not take this as me supporting Wing Chun Chi Sau specific competition - I guess chi sau comps might be cool for real wing chun enthusiasts like around here, and to promote the art, and as a warmup for other rulesets. So I can see where they have a place. But I'm an enthusiast and I don't really like them much - to me seems like why aren't they sparring? I've seen some modified ruleset chi sau comps with headgear and mma gloves. Those are funny too - they are more geared up than live night at MMA.

But I guess overall I can see style specific competitions more to keep the interest in the style going, get together - more of a community thing than anything. And as a starter to amateur and pro MMA. But not as a replacement, or solution alternative to competing in combat sports rulesets.

Good stuff.

 

[drop bear]

Yes for sure. What fun is it without being able to do combat sport rulesets?

Some of the other disciplines use art specific competitions as an alternative or many times as a "warmup" or "rookie team" alternative to fights. For example all of the grappling comps MMA fighters do, EBI, FTW, ADCC, boxing, kickboxing as you say, SanDa (had a dude roll thru trained with Cung Le - awesome).

Now please do not take this as me supporting Wing Chun Chi Sau specific competition - I guess chi sau comps might be cool for real wing chun enthusiasts like around here, and to promote the art, and as a warmup for other rulesets. So I can see where they have a place. But I'm an enthusiast and I don't really like them much - to me seems like why aren't they sparring? I've seen some modified ruleset chi sau comps with headgear and mma gloves. Those are funny too - they are more geared up than live night at MMA.

But I guess overall I can see style specific competitions more to keep the interest in the style going, get together - more of a community thing than anything. And as a starter to amateur and pro MMA. But not as a replacement, or solution alternative to competing in combat sports rulesets.

Good stuff.

Not really BJJ has its own competitions that don't have to have anything to do with MMA.

I think you have to have some sort of vehicle for competition.

 

[Martial D]

You can still break your wrist though. Or your fingers.

Plus you lose effective range. Palms with the knife edge part of the hand don't suck for clinch striking, but taking range away from an already short range system is not always the best idea.

As it is, even at 6'3 with an 80 inch reach I still need to be quick on my feet to land WC stuff if I'm not already tied up.

 

[drop bear]

Plus you lose effective range. Palms with the knife edge part of the hand don't suck for clinch striking, but taking range away from an already short range system is not always the best idea.

As it is, even at 6'3 with an 80 inch reach I still need to be quick on my feet to land WC stuff if I'm not already tied up.

If you have a look at that hand fighting video in the wrist grabbing thread. clinching is kind of striking. They bash with the hand and forearm anyway.

 

[nikthegreek_3]

Of course. You are totally correct. Most people are stuck in the very basic principles and they cannot even punch. Watch in the video how people are trapped in the basic tools, ignore the concepts of Wing Chun and how they should PUNCH, instead of doing stupid chain punches.

 

[Argus]

"Is Wing Chun being used the wrong way?"

Of course. Most people use most things the wrong way. And, that's a stage that all of us must by definition pass through as a part of learning/self discovery. That is standard with any art/system/what have you, and it's the number one reason, I think, why people are always questioning if an art is effective.

I don't actually think much about this. I do think my Wing Chun needs a lot of work, but I don't doubt that it works as a system. I think I can apply it quite well in some situations, and quite poorly in others. My goal is just to keep learning and practicing until I can apply it quite well in a lot more situations! That comes with training and experience.

That's all there is to it.

 

[Hanzou]

You know, there has to be a point where you ask yourself; If there's so many people supposedly doing something the wrong way, either the training method is bogus, your instructors don't know what they're doing, or a combination of both. It simply can't all be placed on the students "just not getting it".

 

[yak sao]

You know, there has to be a point where you ask yourself; If there's so many people supposedly doing something the wrong way, either the training method is bogus, your instructors don't know what they're doing, or a combination of both. It simply can't all be placed on the students "just not getting it".

I think the fault lies mostly with instructors who don't understand wing chun, who at one time were students who didn't get it who were probably taught by instructors who didn't know what they were doing.........

 

[drop bear]

I think the fault lies mostly with instructors who don't understand wing chun, who at one time were students who didn't get it who were probably taught by instructors who didn't know what they were doing.........

It is instructors that don't understand fighting. And wing chun quite often get the meta concept wrong because of that.

So for example our boxing coach preaches the idea of win the entry, win the exit.

That is not style specific. You have to have a method of getting in to do damage and getting out to avoid it. And it is where you face really dangerous strikes. You are walking in to shots or they have room to really wind up.

And yet is generally ignored.

So here is that demonstrated.

And by the way straight forward and straight backwards is a bad habit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You know, there has to be a point where you ask yourself; If there's so many people supposedly doing something the wrong way, either the training method is bogus, your instructors don't know what they're doing, or a combination of both. It simply can't all be placed on the students "just not getting it".

That, or the training approach is designed for a very long learning curve (or maybe assumes a foundation not common among current students, which is sort of the same thing).