Is the US evil?

[Big Don]

The "enemy" says that WE are the terrorists. They say that WE are the killers. They say that WE are the imperialsts. They say that WE are in THERE country to take over, rape, pilige, plunder, and force people to convert.

So does the Democrats, are THEY the enemy?

The same things we accusse them of doing. If we sacrfice our principles, the thing that makes US differnit from THEM, then what makes US better? How are we any differnit from our enemy? Do we not prove them right by not giving them trials, by not treating them like POWs, by not abiding by the full letter and spirit of international law that deal with enemy combatants?

Really, lets follow the Geneva Conventions to the letter! I agree, summary executions are much less costly than feeding, clothing and housing these people.

Really, if we sacrifice our principles, how are we any differnit from our enemy? How, I ask you?

Well, for one, we don't intentionally EXPLODE...

 

[CuongNhuka]

Well, for one, we don't intentionally EXPLODE...

You know, the reason The Islamic Extremists hate us, it isn't because of me (a Marine), it's because of you who prove that we are exatly what they think we are.

 

[Tez3]

Don't intentional explode? Really?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13stan.html?ref=world

 

[CoryKS]

You know, the reason The Islamic Extremists hate us, it isn't because of me (a Marine), it's because of you who prove that we are exatly what they think we are.

Hold on, sonny, you ain't a Marine yet. You're a recruit. You have to earn that title.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Hold on, sonny, you ain't a Marine yet. You're a recruit. You have to earn that title.

I know, but the princple stands. It's not really the people fighting (or so to be) who they hate.

 

[CoryKS]

I know, but the princple stands. It's not really the people fighting (or so to be) who they hate.

No, it doesn't. And yes, they do. They have told us at every step what they want, and you have failed to hear them because you are so caught up in what you want. How you want us to be. And you are using our enemies as a lever to get your countrymen to behave as you would like. If the conservative refrain is "Live as I do or God will be angry", your refrain is "Live as I do or the terrorists will be angry". It's sickening, really.

 

[Twin Fist]

You know, the reason The Islamic Extremists hate us, it isn't because of me (a Marine), it's because of you who prove that we are exatly what they think we are.

this is just an ignorant statement

they hate us because we are not muslim, we allow women to speak, we show that the koan isnt the oly path to happiness.

but mostly because we are not muslim

they have said so themselves

you are too wrapped up in you theorhetical world, and you aint a marine yet. You need to stop calling yourself one till AFTER you graduate boot camp.

 

[elder999]

this is just an ignorant statement

they hate us because we are not muslim, we allow women to speak, we show that the koan isnt the oly path to happiness.

but mostly because we are not muslim

they have said so themselves
.

"They" say a lot of things.

Look here

Here’s what they have been saying since at least 1973 when I started boarding school: They did it because we support Israel, because we meddle in their affairs, and because we’re over there. (It may have been Ken Burn’s series on the Civil War where I heard this, but a Yankee soldier is reputed to have asked of a Rebel soldier, “You don’t own any slaves, so why are you fighting?” The rebel’s reply: “Because you’re down here.” Sound familiar?)

Even our so-called friends are trying to tell us why they did it, butwhen they do, we rebuke them. Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal tried to give $10 million to New York, but because he indicated that part of the reason the terrorists attacked us was because of our policies toward the Palestinians and suggested we change them, Mayor Giuliani of New York City turned the gift down saying, “I entirely reject that statement. There is no moral equivalent for this [terrorist] act. There is no justification for it. The people who did it lost any right to ask for justification for it when they slaughtered 4,000 or 5,000 innocent people.”

Of course, Americans are perfectly justified in answering the question, "Why do the terrorists hate us?" with "Why should we care?"

 

[kwaichang]

The "enemy" says that WE are the terrorists. They say that WE are the killers. They say that WE are the imperialsts. They say that WE are in THERE country to take over, rape, pilige, plunder, and force people to convert. The same things we accusse them of doing. Really, if we sacrifice our principles, how are we any differnit from our enemy? How, I ask you?

I shortened the above quote.
Yes they do say that; NO we aren't.:EG:

Evil and dirty fighting (to use an easily understood concept) always wins over the "white hat guys" because they won't fight that way. It's why the NINJA'S were so successful.:yoda:

Treat them as they would treat us and we'll evenutally be rid of them. Treat them as we treat our own citizens and they'll never go away, but we will.

 

[Tez3]

I shortened the above quote.
Yes they do say that; NO we aren't.:EG:

Evil and dirty fighting (to use an easily understood concept) always wins over the "white hat guys" because they won't fight that way. It's why the NINJA'S were so successful.:yoda:

Treat them as they would treat us and we'll evenutally be rid of them. Treat them as we treat our own citizens and they'll never go away, but we will.

so, where's the Ninjas now then?
Your view is a very simplistic one that is doomed to failure, all you'll do is alienate even more people who would have been allies because in the end dirty fighting doesn't win, CLEVER fighting does.
You've also missed the point, no one is saying treat them as you do your own citiizens, the point is to treat them properly as prisoners of war. If you dehumanise them you dehumanise yourself and basically what's the point of surviving if you've turned into scum too? You will be so dehumanised that you will then start treating your own people badly.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/torture/ethics/wrong_2.shtml#top

 

[CoryKS]

You've also missed the point, no one is saying treat them as you do your own citiizens, the point is to treat them properly as prisoners of war.

They are not prisoners of war. Designating them as such means they enjoy the rights afforded by the Geneva Convention, despite the fact that they do not follow the Geneva Convention. If you do that, you've just removed the incentive for any enemy to abide by it.

If you dehumanise them you dehumanise yourself and basically what's the point of surviving if you've turned into scum too?

Surviving.

You will be so dehumanised that you will then start treating your own people badly.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/torture/ethics/wrong_2.shtml#top

Will? Or might? Or "I think that..."? Or "They say that..."? Hey, maybe if we get good at it we can earn a place on the UN Human Rights Council, next to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Egypt, and Jordan.


Oh, and the ninjas are there. You just can't see them. 'cuz they're ninjas.

 

[Tez3]

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/06summer/dimarco.pdf