Is Obama black?

[David43515]

INSTITUTIONAL racism refers to a group that is the political majority (the group in power) enshrining its values in such a way that every major institution in society favors them and specifically discriminates against others not of their race.Institutionalized racism in this country is very very very much alive.
So YOU may not be racist.I am not,others may not be.But the INSTITUTION/SYSTEM IS,and the people who perpetuate it don't even have to be racist to perpetuate a racist institution.
.

Okay, you`ve peaked my curiosity. Can you give me some examples of institutional racism? I mean besides the government or universities asking me to state my race in order to track who gets what subsidies.

You realize, don`t you, that there is no such thing as "reverse discrimination". There`s just "discrimination".

 

[Steve]

doubt it.
Hell even when I lived in San Francisco for 4 years my liberal friends would jokingly introduce me to their friends as "The Enemy" because I was white, straight, Christian, "Wealthy", and conservative...
I have had people excuse my successes my entire life as being because of my parents, or because I was white... not because I was actually doing something right.
Because I never had any problems getting a job it was excused away as me being white not me being qualified, or doing something worthwhile to be hired. When trying to get college scholarships I was told I shouldn't apply because my family could afford to pay for me.... forget the fact I was kicked out of my house 5 days after I graduated high school and lived in the back of my 69 volkswagon bug for several months while I worked to get myself a rented room, and go to college... no I was told that other minority students should have priority regardless of my situation... which I was to proud at the time to even mention... the reasoning going all the way back to slavery and and unfair balance..yes that was actually told to me as a reason why I should apply and take this from someone else...
when I tried applying for the big brother organization when I was 26 I was flat out told no thanks we dont need you, we need more ethnic participants.....There are many many examples I can give out of my personal life, but I really dont care to share. I just get sick of reading some of this sanctimonious crap that some of you spew sometimes and expect it to be taken as gospel.

It's funny to me that you and a few others talk about how everything positive that happens to you is a direct result of pulling up the old bootstraps, hard work and a direct result of being a terrific human being. But everything negative, ie, when people react negatively to you, it's them. They're bigoted. They're biased. They're racist. I never really put it together until this post.

I have a generally positive impression of you from your posts, but you're admittedly blunt and coarse. You've said so yourself. I think it's within the realm of possibility that some people just don't like you, and the rest is details.

 

[David43515]

It's funny to me that you and a few others talk about how everything positive that happens to you is a direct result of pulling up the old bootstraps, hard work and a direct result of being a terrific human being. But everything negative, ie, when people react negatively to you, it's them. They're bigoted. They're biased. They're racist. I never really put it together until this post.

I have a generally positive impression of you from your posts, but you're admittedly blunt and coarse. You've said so yourself. I think it's within the realm of possibility that some people just don't like you, and the rest is details.

That sword cuts both ways though. If I have a chip on my shoulder and see every percieved insult or slight as racism, aren`t I going to find it alot more often? Couldn`t it be that the person treating me like crap just doesn`t like ME?

I went to school with a guy who really got pissed when girls would shoot him down. He was very self consious of his background and swore they all thought they were too good for him. One day a girl who`d shot him down overheard him ranting about what a bigot and a class-consious elitist she was. You should have seen the look on his face when she and a few girlfreinds got the attention of the whole bar and explained that the reason none of them would date him was because his over moussed hair made him look like a troll doll and his breath could knock a horse over.

 

[Steve]

That sword cuts both ways though. If I have a chip on my shoulder and see every percieved insult or slight as racism, aren`t I going to find it alot more often? Couldn`t it be that the person treating me like crap just doesn`t like ME?

I went to school with a guy who really got pissed when girls would shoot him down. He was very self consious of his background and swore they all thought they were too good for him. One day a girl who`d shot him down overheard him ranting about what a bigot and a class-consious elitist she was. You should have seen the look on his face when she and a few girlfreinds got the attention of the whole bar and explained that the reason none of them would date him was because his over moussed hair made him look like a troll doll and his breath could knock a horse over.

Undoubtedly true, and a lesson we might all take to heart.

I actually wrote about this a few months back in the context of my kids and personal accountability. If things happen TO you all the time, chances are you're your own worst enemy. The flip side of this is if you're looking for offense, it's easy to find, even if you have to make it up.

I hadn't seen it in this light before, though. The combination of threads floating around where guys are talking about being self made successes also blaming others for being bigoted and discriminating against them. It struck my funny bone.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

It's funny to me that you and a few others talk about how everything positive that happens to you is a direct result of pulling up the old bootstraps, hard work and a direct result of being a terrific human being. But everything negative, ie, when people react negatively to you, it's them. They're bigoted. They're biased. They're racist. I never really put it together until this post.

I have a generally positive impression of you from your posts, but you're admittedly blunt and coarse. You've said so yourself. I think it's within the realm of possibility that some people just don't like you, and the rest is details.

LOL funny observation.
I have never said that everything I have done has come through hard work... hell my nickname is lucky... but thats another story.
I also have no misconceptions about why some people dont like me.
The only time I would say that someone was bigoted towards me, would be in those times when they have specifically given racial reasoning for denying me something.
I know plenty of people of different racial background then me that dont like for perfectly legitimate reasons. I can not disagree with you calling me blunt and coarse. Sometimes that is my goal... most of the time I just try to be as directly to the point as possible..
but in regards to blaming any problems I have on race, I think only in or two other threads that took a turn towards the discussion of racism have I mentioned anything about it. My parents cutting ties with me had nothing to do with racism and everything to do with my lifestyle at the time. I have had all kinds of issues and problems that had nothing to do with racism.. but I brought the ones up that specifically did due to the thread..
like I said funny observation though.. It might even be something I would point out if I was reading someone elses post.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Okay, you`ve peaked my curiosity. Can you give me some examples of institutional racism? I mean besides the government or universities asking me to state my race in order to track who gets what subsidies.

You realize, don`t you, that there is no such thing as "reverse discrimination". There`s just "discrimination".

But of course.There IS no such thing as "reverse discrimination".That's just a rather cumbersome,pretty asinine label that the media coined in order to get the average layman to see right away that they're talking about someone being racially prejudiced toward Whites,and not the other way around (which was considered to be the norm,at the time).In the process,they completely confused the significant differences between INSTITUTIONAL racism and racial PREJUDICE.

I already alluded to INSTITUTIONALIZED racism.To quote one of the more common and better definitions:'The term "institutional racism" describes societal patterns that have the net effect of imposing oppressive or otherwise negative conditions against identifiable groups on the basis of race or ethnicity." This following bit of fact may send our good friend "yorkshirelad" into a frenzy,but this term was coined by one of the brilliant minds and one of the greatest leaders of the ORIGINAL Black Panther Party for Self-Defense,STOKELY CARMICHAEL.In the United States, institutional racism results from the social caste system that sustained, and was sustained by, slavery and racial segregation. Although the laws that enforced this caste system are no longer in place, its basic structure still stands to this day. This structure will not fall apart but will continue on its own given perpetual impetus by the very nature of the system itself.Intelligent,focused human equality activism is necessary to initiate and expedite the process of destroying these odious mechanisms which are in and of themselves the font and source of the most egregious excesses that we despise most in our government in the racist,sexist,and politically rapacious and corrupt sense.Literally.A log jam of laws that would actually HELP people in Congress.Institutionalized ineptitude,which has the same roots in the institutions which perpetuate racism.Overspending in Washington and local businesses? Same roots. Underperforming schools? Same roots.Widening gap between rich and poor,men and women,young and old? Same roots. Extravaganlty priced health insurance gangsters? Same source. Wall Street excesses? Same roots.If we annihilate institutionalized racism,we strike a major blow at the institutionalized behaviour that preys upon us all...and in the process we provide for a more equitable society in the interim.

The Panthers knew this,and that is also why they were NOT racist.


So,for example:

• Opposing public school funding is not necessarily an act of individual racism; one can certainly oppose public school funding for valid, non-racist reasons. But to the extent that opposing public school funding has a disproportionate and detrimental effect on minority youth--which the Census Bureau not only rigorous affirms that it does but its subsequent studies indicate that this underfunding of minority schools is deliberate and indemnic within the system itself--it furthers the agenda of institutional racism.
• Most other positions contrary to the civil rights agenda--opposition to affirmative action, support for racial profiling, and so forth--also have the (often unintended) effect of sustaining institutional racism.The average American of all colors is miseducated into thinking that the current state of affairs is a beneficial "norm",when it's NOT.Most people think that the election of President Obama is the final proof of the death knell of racism,when of course it's not.The average person mistakes deliberate socially conscious racial PREJUDICE with racism and oftentimes entirely misses the fact that racism has been much more subtle,much more institutional,and much more subconscious since the 70's...and as such has become HARDER TO COMBAT,NOT EASIER.In essence,racism has been silenced publicly so it performs its dirty work quietly in back corridors where it's even HARDER to spot,publicize and combat...UNLESS you're being victimized by it regularly like we Black folks are.That's why many of our well-intentioned White friends can not only be completely and utterly wrong about their belief that racism has waned to the point of nigh extinction and exasperated with us when we remonstrate with them that it hasn't...and oftentimes they do racist things without even knowing it or meaning to do so.

• Because they think racial PREJUDICE--which is individualized,occurs in the hearts of people who cannot impact society's attitudes--is what gives rise to the many ills that are the purview of INSTITUTIONALIZED racism,which is promulgated by the most powerful group (White people at this point in time) and the most powerful institutions (government,education,military,healthcare,employment,etc.) in a society.Aaand racism is now far more subtle.Rush Limbaugh and most Right wingers are massively racist,and quite a few of them are too dumb to know it.Rush knows it though...and he knows how to exploit that racism in the hearts and minds of most of his listeners,then enflame them to such a pitch that they believe his drivel.This is exactly what most Right wing nutjobs do the best and the most.The Left wing nutjobs--and there ARE Left nutjobs--aren't as organized,well financed,or as desirous of tumultous change as their Right wing counterparts.More importantly? There are probably LESS extreme Left nuts than there are in the Right; they are certainly less vocal than the Far Right is.But a nut is a nut and is not to be trusted because they're NUTS.Remember that.

 

[ATACX GYM]

What Policy would that be?

Is this a legitimate question or are you just kidding with me?

 

[Twin Fist]

• Opposing public school funding is not necessarily an act of individual racism; one can certainly oppose public school funding for valid, non-racist reasons. But to the extent that opposing public school funding has a disproportionate and detrimental effect on minority youth--which the Census Bureau not only rigorous affirms that it does but its subsequent studies indicate that this underfunding of minority schools is deliberate and indemnic within the system itself--it furthers the agenda of institutional racism.

horse crap.

schools are funded through property taxes, taxes are based off of property VALUES.

why do you suppose the property value of houses in high minority areas is in the toilet?

could it be the rampant crime that seems to go with minorities every time?

how is it fair to take money from areas with higher property values to give to the lower value areas?

it isnt

minority areas want better schools? stop turning the nieghborhoods into war zones between dealers and guess what? the schools get more money through taxes.

 

[ballen0351]

Is this a legitimate question or are you just kidding with me?

Nope Real Question. Ive been a Police Officer for over 10 years Ive worked in rual country areas and now built up urban area so Ive covered alot of ground. Id like to know what Police policy's are racist.

 

[ATACX GYM]

You mean something other then what I have experienced in my lifetime growing up in Southern California where White people have been vilified, and that because of the color of my skin I have been called a racist, inhuman, unintelligent, and incapable of succeeding without the horrors that my ancestors supposedly caused.... even though people have done so without knowing my racial background at all or my family tree at all?
Then what to see this nonsense go away would be very important to me?
Sure I get ya.

No,something a bit more than that.I would say...

if you've ever been pulled over at gun point by police,harassed,jailed,lost your life,or know anyone who has...and know that this can happen to you at any moment of any day PURELY because you're White...

...if your life expectancy,quality of life,education level,income level,health care,etc. is held to a permanently lower level (14-25%) say than your Black contemporaries whose educational level you may EXCEED,merely because you're White...

...if the aspects of your culture and your skin color is more associated with the criminal element and all things undesirable...

...if say the overwhelming majority of people in your country are utterly convinced that all of the old Kings of England were Black when of course they're White and all of Europe's achievements were seen as the direct result of the civilization that Black people built there when you know for a fact that the exact opposite is true,but were you to say anything challenging the contentions of Black and many White people who are wedded to their ignorance and illusions,all manner of ill may befall you...

...if you not only couldn't name 3 countries from the continent from which you hail but you can't speak the language and know nothing of its internal workings...

...if you see more of your people and people who look like you in negative positions regularly in the news,like being cuffed by police and singled out as underachieving in almost every desirable endeavor,and it was not-so-subtly suggested that this was the case because they're White like you...

...if the crack epidemic,gang warfare,Welfare problems,and the like were saddled with your face when those problems most definitely originated elsewhere...

...if the one time you saw a White President ascend to office,he's not only strapped with the greatest deficit in human history but when he achieves extraordinary feats in the face of insuperable obstacles that literally no other human being in world history has faced you not only see him demeaned by a sizeable portion of the Black public which has little to NO idea what they're talking about,and this public also spawns a run on weaponry,and asinine movements like Birthers and Deathers,and you overhear Black people who you thought were intelligent and might not be racist huddle together in sizeable groups when they think they're not being overheard and blather in fear that the new White president is going to start enforced reparations and put Black people in slavery...

...if every time a White person does something that causes social ripples you see the environment at your job change and become more hostile and the glass ceiling which is there for you especially lowers even more...

...these things and many more...

...yeah you might start to get an outside taste of what it means to be a strong Black unafraid articulate physically capable educated culturally connected person in America today.You MIGHT.Maybe.

 

[Twin Fist]

wow, gee, lets just get all the evil white folks to kill themselves......

 

[David43515]

But of course.There IS no such thing as "reverse discrimination".That's just a rather cumbersome,pretty asinine label that the media coined in order to get the average layman to see right away that they're talking about someone being racially prejudiced toward Whites,and not the other way around (which was considered to be the norm,at the time).In the process,they completely confused the significant differences between INSTITUTIONAL racism and racial PREJUDICE.

I already alluded to INSTITUTIONALIZED racism.To quote one of the more common and better definitions:'The term "institutional racism" describes societal patterns that have the net effect of imposing oppressive or otherwise negative conditions against identifiable groups on the basis of race or ethnicity." This following bit of fact may send our good friend "yorkshirelad" into a frenzy,but this term was coined by one of the brilliant minds and one of the greatest leaders of the ORIGINAL Black Panther Party for Self-Defense,STOKELY CARMICHAEL.In the United States, institutional racism results from the social caste system that sustained, and was sustained by, slavery and racial segregation. Although the laws that enforced this caste system are no longer in place, its basic structure still stands to this day. This structure will not fall apart but will continue on its own given perpetual impetus by the very nature of the system itself.Intelligent,focused human equality activism is necessary to initiate and expedite the process of destroying these odious mechanisms which are in and of themselves the font and source of the most egregious excesses that we despise most in our government in the racist,sexist,and politically rapacious and corrupt sense.Literally.A log jam of laws that would actually HELP people in Congress.Institutionalized ineptitude,which has the same roots in the institutions which perpetuate racism.Overspending in Washington and local businesses? Same roots. Underperforming schools? Same roots.Widening gap between rich and poor,men and women,young and old? Same roots. Extravaganlty priced health insurance gangsters? Same source. Wall Street excesses? Same roots.If we annihilate institutionalized racism,we strike a major blow at the institutionalized behaviour that preys upon us all...and in the process we provide for a more equitable society in the interim.

The Panthers knew this,and that is also why they were NOT racist.




So,for example:

• Opposing public school funding is not necessarily an act of individual racism; one can certainly oppose public school funding for valid, non-racist reasons. But to the extent that opposing public school funding has a disproportionate and detrimental effect on minority youth--which the Census Bureau not only rigorous affirms that it does but its subsequent studies indicate that this underfunding of minority schools is deliberate and indemnic within the system itself--it furthers the agenda of institutional racism.
• Most other positions contrary to the civil rights agenda--opposition to affirmative action, support for racial profiling, and so forth--also have the (often unintended) effect of sustaining institutional racism.The average American of all colors is miseducated into thinking that the current state of affairs is a beneficial "norm",when it's NOT.Most people think that the election of President Obama is the final proof of the death knell of racism,when of course it's not.The average person mistakes deliberate socially conscious racial PREJUDICE with racism and oftentimes entirely misses the fact that racism has been much more subtle,much more institutional,and much more subconscious since the 70's...and as such has become HARDER TO COMBAT,NOT EASIER.In essence,racism has been silenced publicly so it performs its dirty work quietly in back corridors where it's even HARDER to spot,publicize and combat...UNLESS you're being victimized by it regularly like we Black folks are.That's why many of our well-intentioned White friends can not only be completely and utterly wrong about their belief that racism has waned to the point of nigh extinction and exasperated with us when we remonstrate with them that it hasn't...and oftentimes they do racist things without even knowing it or meaning to do so.

• Because they think racial PREJUDICE--which is individualized,occurs in the hearts of people who cannot impact society's attitudes--is what gives rise to the many ills that are the purview of INSTITUTIONALIZED racism,which is promulgated by the most powerful group (White people at this point in time) and the most powerful institutions (government,education,military,healthcare,employment,etc.) in a society.Aaand racism is now far more subtle.Rush Limbaugh and most Right wingers are massively racist,and quite a few of them are too dumb to know it.Rush knows it though...and he knows how to exploit that racism in the hearts and minds of most of his listeners,then enflame them to such a pitch that they believe his drivel.This is exactly what most Right wing nutjobs do the best and the most.The Left wing nutjobs--and there ARE Left nutjobs--aren't as organized,well financed,or as desirous of tumultous change as their Right wing counterparts.More importantly? There are probably LESS extreme Left nuts than there are in the Right; they are certainly less vocal than the Far Right is.But a nut is a nut and is not to be trusted because they're NUTS.Remember that.

Well I guess we`ll have to agree to disagree. From what you`re saying the definition seems so broad that pretty much anything short of the weather could be institutional racism if it could inconvenience some member of a minority population. But I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. You`ve given me something to think about.

I guess the problem is so big I can`t see it. I`ll just have to continue to rely on being nice to people until they give me a reason not to.

 

[elder999]

I personally ask every question on the sheet after I made the mistake of thinking someone was a male when in fact she was not (think pat from Sat night live but with a mustache). I cant speak for other people but that's what I do.

Odd to me that you're not protected by a procedure or policy statement that gives this process uniformity...

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

No,something a bit more than that.I would say...

if you've ever been pulled over at gun point by police,harassed,jailed,lost your life,or know anyone who has...and know that this can happen to you at any moment of any day PURELY because you're White...

well ya all of that has happened to me aside from losing my own life, and yes it was because I was white where I was and I stuck out like a sore thumb lol... thanks for the laugh, I sometimes look back and wonder wtf I was thinking..

...if your life expectancy,quality of life,education level,income level,health care,etc. is held to a permanently lower level (14-25%) say than your Black contemporaries whose educational level you may EXCEED,merely because you're White...

ya you lost me here completely..I have no idea what this has to do with racism. I have not bothered looking into any recent studies based on life expectancy, and the rest, but I imagine that it has more to do with economic status then race... could be wrong.. but not sure what this has to do with racism at all

...if the aspects of your culture and your skin color is more associated with the criminal element and all things undesirable...

once again lost me here.. skin color doesnt associate to criminal element where I am from. and I have fewer white neighbors then anything else.

...if say the overwhelming majority of people in your country are utterly convinced that all of the old Kings of England were Black when of course they're White and all of Europe's achievements were seen as the direct result of the civilization that Black people built there when you know for a fact that the exact opposite is true,but were you to say anything challenging the contentions of Black and many White people who are wedded to their ignorance and illusions,all manner of ill may befall you...

wtf does this have to do with anything???? So what exactly are you saying anyways?

...if you not only couldn't name 3 countries from the continent from which you hail but you can't speak the language and know nothing of its internal workings...

I was born in Belgium, I cant speak a lick of flemish.

...if you see more of your people and people who look like you in negative positions regularly in the news,like being cuffed by police and singled out as underachieving in almost every desirable endeavor,and it was not-so-subtly suggested that this was the case because they're White like you...

what channel are you watching?? lets see on the news today that I watched they were talking about Charie Sheen(white) and his drug problems.. the Saudi college student arrested in Texas(Arabic?) The rest was about the Middle East uprisings, the wisconsin uprisings lol... I dont recall one story about a black guy or girl being arrested or getting in trouble at all.... /shrug

...if the crack epidemic,gang warfare,Welfare problems,and the like were saddled with your face when those problems most definitely originated elsewhere...

see the gangs down here are mostly hispanic, crack isnt prevalent here.. meth and oxy and pot seem to be and those always seem to be associated on the news with hispanics or whites for the most part. Welfare? seems to be all races, and seems to be a ridiculous amount of people in California in general.

...if the one time you saw a White President ascend to office,he's not only strapped with the greatest deficit in human history but when he achieves extraordinary feats in the face of insuperable obstacles that literally no other human being in world history has faced you not only see him demeaned by a sizeable portion of the Black public which has little to NO idea what they're talking about,and this public also spawns a run on weaponry,and asinine movements like Birthers and Deathers,and you overhear Black people who you thought were intelligent and might not be racist huddle together in sizeable groups when they think they're not being overheard and blather in fear that the new White president is going to start enforced reparations and put Black people in slavery...

ya here is something I call BS on... what extraordinary feats has Obama accomplished? I can't think of anything even mediocre, he has not really done anything he said he would, and managed to make things alot worse in my eyes.
I tend to think that several presidents have tougher administrations then Obama has.. we have had several massive wars in our history a great depression, cold war, missle crisis, etc.etc.. quite a few things actually... I have heard of Birthers... wth is a deather? I talk to alot of peopel that dont ike Obamas policies, I have never heard any talk of reparations until now, and once again what are you talking about slavery?

...if every time a White person does something that causes social ripples you see the environment at your job change and become more hostile and the glass ceiling which is there for you especially lowers even more...

see I dont have this worry, I refuse to work for other people period.

...these things and many more...

...yeah you might start to get an outside taste of what it means to be a strong Black unafraid articulate physically capable educated culturally connected person in America today.You MIGHT.Maybe.

wow...
see the problem is I don't need to know what its like to be anyone but me.
the point I was making was not that I have suffered worse racial prejudice then any black person in history, because that would be plain silly.
I simply saw a comment that seems ridiculous to me because my experience has been quite different from what that comment would insinuate.
Racism sucks no matter what race you are.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

ok, Mr Semantics

hows this?

there are less white people with racist beliefs than ever before.

example?

we (whites) elected the moron in the oval office. He couldnt have gotten elected without white votes.

we, speaking for myself, my family, my peers, have moved on, by and large. White americans will now bend over backwards to prove how NOT racist we are.

we SHUN david duke

Al Sharpton still has a job. John Whiley Price, google it. Shelia Jackson Lee.

exceptions always exist, but the white racist? he is the exception now. If you think he is not, then YOU know not of what you speak.

Sorry, I'm just one of those people that thinks words are important. You know, unless you speak clearly, it kind of makes it difficult for people to know what the hell you're talking about.

There is no arguing that there are less racists in the U.S. I'll give you that no problem. But when you make a blanket statement "it isn't the white folks who are racist", then that actually means something.

And the fact of the matter is, there are still a sizable number of white racists in the U.S. There are also a number of Black racists. But, once again, you use such a broad brush as to invite opposition to your statements.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Both of you are making mistakes based upon not knowing the specifics of the distinct difference between racial PREJUDICE and INSTITUTIONALIZED RACISM. Racial PREJUDICE is specific to individuals...and refers to individuals who may dislike another race purely upon the basis of race.INSTITUTIONAL racism refers to a group that is the political majority (the group in power) enshrining its values in such a way that every major institution in society favors them and specifically discriminates against others not of their race.Institutionalized racism in this country is very very very much alive.The fact remains that--population wide--the reality for Black people in the United States is still starkly different than our White compatriots,and the differences are borne of institutionalized racism.

So YOU may not be racist.I am not,others may not be.But the INSTITUTION/SYSTEM IS,and the people who perpetuate it don't even have to be racist to perpetuate a racist institution.Not every cop in the USA is racist.The policing policies and effects are assuredly racist,nationwide.No question or doubt.Not every doctor in the U.S.A. or employer is racist.There is no doubt that there is traumatic differences between the educational and health opportunities afforded White and Black people with White people receiving many critical services in many areas that are just not available to Black people because we're Black.And that,ladies and germs,is INSTITUTIONAL racism.

And it'll stay that way until we fundamentally and more fairly (for everyone) rework the primary institutions in these United States of America.

Btw,if President Obama is a "moron",what President would you consider his intellectual superior? Why? What President within say the last 40 years did a better job? Why?

No, I very clearly understand the difference between a 'racist' and a prejudiced individual. It is not only institutions that are racist, but people can be as well.

And I can certainly appreciate the idea of legacy issues regarding institutional racism.

However....

You use the example of public school funding. Well, while that may affect Black more disproportionately, it would affect all poorer people. This would be more of an example of classism then institutional racism. Unless of course the intent would be to sacrifice a few whites for the destruction of most Blacks. But here again we would revert to individual racism.

And of course getting rid of Affirmative Action would disproportionately affect Blacks over whites. That is the very nature of these types of programs. But, that does not mean that the effect of getting rid of such programs would be a net negative. I have to say that when you use the concept that the reason that we need them is because of the "subtle, hard to see" nature of modern racism, you lose me. One can see consipiracys anywhere if you look hard enough.

You make the argument of left- vs. right- wing racism. Well, I think that's a matter of perspective. I actually think that it is more racist to tell me that I can't succeed because I'm Black, then it is to tell me to f*** off and figure out how to succeed on my own.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

No,something a bit more than that.I would say...

if you've ever been pulled over at gun point by police,harassed,jailed,lost your life,or know anyone who has...and know that this can happen to you at any moment of any day PURELY because you're White...

That is based on an individuals actions. You have to show how this particular behavior is institutionalized. I work in law enforcement. I have to say that I have seen no institutional policies that allow for the unlawful treatment of Blacks or other minorities. In fact, I have seen quite the opposite in my time.

...if your life expectancy,quality of life,education level,income level,health care,etc. is held to a permanently lower level (14-25%) say than your Black contemporaries whose educational level you may EXCEED,merely because you're White...

Held at that level by whom, and in what way. You're good with accusations, but very thin on support.

...if the aspects of your culture and your skin color is more associated with the criminal element and all things undesirable...

Held by whom. Even if the majority of people viewed things in this way, once again it is an example of personal prejudice, not institutional racism.

...if say the overwhelming majority of people in your country are utterly convinced that all of the old Kings of England were Black when of course they're White and all of Europe's achievements were seen as the direct result of the civilization that Black people built there when you know for a fact that the exact opposite is true,but were you to say anything challenging the contentions of Black and many White people who are wedded to their ignorance and illusions,all manner of ill may befall you...

Uh, what?

...if you not only couldn't name 3 countries from the continent from which you hail but you can't speak the language and know nothing of its internal workings...

I think most Blacks in the U.S. know that their from the U.S., and could easily name the U.S., Canada, and Mexico as three countries on the continent from which they hail. And most can speak English, although some rather badly. And they know at least the rudiments of the U.S. electoral process.

Oh. Or are you talking about the fact that I should know something about a continent (Africa) to which I've never been and have only a slight interest in visiting.

...if you see more of your people and people who look like you in negative positions regularly in the news,like being cuffed by police and singled out as underachieving in almost every desirable endeavor,and it was not-so-subtly suggested that this was the case because they're White like you...

I see examples of very high acheiving Blacks all the time. And not just in sports. Of course, God forbid, you may have to decide to look at something other then the TV to do so.

...if the crack epidemic,gang warfare,Welfare problems,and the like were saddled with your face when those problems most definitely originated elsewhere...

Really? And where did they originate?

...if the one time you saw a White President ascend to office,he's not only strapped with the greatest deficit in human history but when he achieves extraordinary feats in the face of insuperable obstacles that literally no other human being in world history has faced you not only see him demeaned by a sizeable portion of the Black public which has little to NO idea what they're talking about,and this public also spawns a run on weaponry,and asinine movements like Birthers and Deathers,and you overhear Black people who you thought were intelligent and might not be racist huddle together in sizeable groups when they think they're not being overheard and blather in fear that the new White president is going to start enforced reparations and put Black people in slavery...

Let's break it down: this is not the greatest deficit in human history (see Germany circa WWII, U.S. during the Great Depression). What "extraordinary feats" has Obama done? He hasn't done anything more extraordinary then any other President. He still hasn't been demonized by the Black public, except in the fact that he hasn't been willing to push harder for his agenda. And some of what you are claiming people talked about in "hushed circles" happened with, oh, every opposition group against a President' agenda.

...if every time a White person does something that causes social ripples you see the environment at your job change and become more hostile and the glass ceiling which is there for you especially lowers even more...

Uh, what?

...yeah you might start to get an outside taste of what it means to be a strong Black unafraid articulate physically capable educated culturally connected person in America today.You MIGHT.Maybe.

It's funny. I'm all of the things that you're mentioning yet see the world nothing like you do.

 

[ballen0351]

Odd to me that you're not protected by a procedure or policy statement that gives this process uniformity...

The Process is the same for everyone its that same questions filled in for everyone. Normally you can answer most question with out asking like male/female normally thats not a hard one.

 

[elder999]

The Process is the same for everyone its that same questions filled in for everyone. Normally you can answer most question with out asking like male/female normally thats not a hard one.

Oh...okay. What do you think would be put down for this man's race?

 

[Big Don]

Oh...okay. What do you think would be put down for this man's race?

Human.