Is Modern Martial Arts Losing It's Discipline in Order to Attract Customers

[tunetigress]

I M O it is the quality and consistency of leadership that will eventually determine the success or failure of any program, Martial Art or any other.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Just wanted to make an observation, this topics had 200+ views, 20 replies, and 17 votes... all of the votes state yes.

Thats sad. Question is, what should be done about it? A lot of good ideas up there, but can we change the arts as a whole, or just our small niches?

I train in a relaxed school because its run in a friendly manner, however thats the adult classes. The kids classes are run on a stricter 'good behavior' basis, and the parents seem to like it.

:asian:

 

[stal0225]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Question is, what should be done about it? A lot of good ideas up there, but can we change the arts as a whole, or just our small niches?

:asian:

I think that's were it starts is with one small step.
Change is always something that is going to happen whether we like it or not. The only thing is it didn't happen over night and it's not going to change back over night either.

One student, One school, One System at a time i guess.

Later

 

[Goldendragon7]

I have control over my guys and organization. I don't have that problem. I can only touch those that are near me. If you get close you'll feel the warmth.

As for everyone else..... I can't make them do anything.

:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

I have control over my guys and organization

What prompted you to start your own organization and not just go with what was there or stay in the IKKA?

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Mrs. Parker is nice but knows nothing about Kenpo. She has no promotional powers or knowledge...... getting promoted by her is like getting promoted by one of my students parents - and the rest of the Black Belts that the IKKA has are the same. I rank or know as much or more than they so that was not an option......... NOT FOR ME......THERE IS NO CREDIBILITY THERE!

Others that I spoke with had visions of their own..... so off I went.

I am very happy to be able to do what I'm doing how I'm doing it.

:asian:

 

[Rob_Broad]

I gotta know who said they don't see a problem? My second question is how long have they been trainng?

 

[Kirk]

Did you hold a position with the IKKA when you left?
A lot of your counterparts gave themselves a higher rank
when THEY left the IKKA, how come you didn't?

 

[Klondike93]

There's a good question GD. How come you haven't done the promotion thing? You could some of your seniors together and test and get kicked up a rank. Or is it that rank is not important it's the person.


:asian:

 

[stal0225]

Well my children and i have movie night on Thrusday nights and of course we watched Dragon The Bruce Lee Storry for the umpteenth time.


Bruce Said a belt is only good for holding up your pants.

It's what's inside that counts.



Later

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by stal0225
Bruce Said a belt is only good for holding up your pants.

So did Mr Miyagi :rofl:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Klondike93
There's a good question GD. How come you haven't done the promotion thing? You could some of your seniors together and test and get kicked up a rank. Or is it that rank is not important it's the person.
:asian:

Well if you knew me, you would understand that rank is not what I am about. Kenpo Knowledge is. The Belt does not nor has not limited me in that quest. I was a higher rank than many when Mr. Parker died and was asked a few times to go for promotions, the first was in '91 at the IKKA Brown an Black Training camp.... but there was not anyone there with the exception of Frank Trejo, John Sepulveda and Bob Liles that I would even consider to sign my certificate, besides to go to 6th at that time I felt was a disrespect to Mr. Parker....... all of us that were 5th and higher didn't NEED the rank we should have had a 1 year moratorium in his honor which I did (as it turned out for 11 years). To just promote yourself is flat wrong in my book, those that did it ..... well they did what they wanted to ...... but I don't have to follow. I was then asked a few years ago by Mr. LaBounty to test for 6th but was not ready in my mind at that time (I'm not sure I am now either lol). But Kenpo goes on and rank is a part of it more for my students than myself What I know is not governed by my belt (even though many think that the number of stripes is a sign of what you know..... or should) trust me, it is not. I feel comfortable just learning and teaching more and more Kenpo. If the world wouldn't have such a heavy requirement on rank there probably wouldn't be any. LOL

:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

I asked the question, but I knew the answer before hand.
I knew you would say that "rank is not what I am about".
I just got that feeling about you form what i've read and what you've posted here and the other forums I've seen you in.
Mr. Parker would truely be proud of you today sir.
I too am a man not about rank, but knowledge, kenpo knowledge as you put it. I have been a 1st dan since 1987 for that reason, stripes don't make the belt. I have been asked to test lately but unless it's in kenpo, it just has no merrit to me. Once I get to black in kenpo I doubt I'll test any higher, but that doesn't mean I won't continue to learn or take instruction from my current kenpo teacher, Brad Scornavacco.
With respect, salute.

:asian:

 

[Robbo]

I have been a 1st dan since 1987 for that reason, stripes don't make the belt. I have been asked to test lately but unless it's in kenpo, it just has no merrit to me. Once I get to black in kenpo I doubt I'll test any higher

14 years to learn 2nd degree material tells me three things,
a) you are very, very, very good at the 2nd degree mat'l
b) you are learning the mat'l at a very slow pace
c) you have learned the mat'l, dismissed the grading and are learning beyond your rank

This quote is a double edged sword. Ranking once the complete system is learned is based on contributions and time spent in the art(s). Once you have learned the complete system it is entirely up to you how you progress and grow as a martial artist. I also know that to a certain point after black belt the ranking system is not as important as the kyu belt system, which is as it should be since as a experienced practitoner you are learning what Kenpo is truly about.

With all that said, if there is more technical information to be learned and you have to grade to the other levels of black to learn it then pursue the knowledge to your fullest extent. To say you have finished learning the Kenpo system at 1st black is not the wisest thing to say. If you are learning 3rd,4th,etc mat'l while being a 1st degree that is not the greatest situation either since you are working outside the framework and it might be seen as favouritism by the other students. Work on your required mat'l, become proficient at it, grade with it to show you have learned it and then go on to the next level of mat'l to be learned. After there is no more technical (required) material to learn then you can sit back and investigate the different aspects and permutations of Kenpo while having the full system to draw on. At this point rank should not matter. But if a credible authority recognizes your acheivements and you beleive in the people on that panel then by all means grade for the rank and be happy that someone is recognizing your efforts.

I'm sorry if the post came across harsh but I've heard black belts in my school say rank isn't important but yet they show up once a week, their technique never improves and take 5-10 years to go up in rank. If you are practising seriously and learning the mat'l you cannot help yourself, you will be ready to test in the 2, 3, 4 year time frame between belts. Take it for what it is, a very serious/happy celebration to show that you deserve to have the opportunity to go the next level of proficiency.

Thank-You,
Rob
:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

"To say you have finished learning the Kenpo system at 1st black is not the wisest thing to say"

No I guess it's not the wisest thing to say, I should have worded it better I guess. Getting all the material up to Black is the first step but there are more after that, a lot more. My only point is that rank holds no facination to me or I'd have been promoted to 3rd, 4th or 5th degree by now. I want to learn all I can in kenpo but being 41 I doubt I ever will. I will do what my instructor thinks I should do as far as testing goes.

"14 years to learn 2nd degree material tells me three things,
a) you are very, very, very good at the 2nd degree mat'l
b) you are learning the mat'l at a very slow pace
c) you have learned the mat'l, dismissed the grading and are learning beyond your rank "

Closest would be C I supose. I've had all the material for a 2nd degree in TKD since 90 or 91, but because I left the ITF I felt no need to worry about testing for it. In TKD once you get past the black belt requirements the only thing left to go through are the forms. In some circles all the stuff I know was good up to 3rd degree, but in the organization I was in it was only good for 2nd.
What to do, what to do.

:asian:

 

[tunetigress]

If being over 40 limits what you can learn in Kenpo, then I guess I will be in BIG trouble! NOT!!!! LOL

 

[Klondike93]

It's just me wishing I would have stayed with what I started 14 years ago instead of just standing by waiting. I never realized it had been that long since I was first introduced to American Kenpo . I just kept waiting and hoping for someone to open a school close to home and here it is 14 years later and I still have travel 60 miles a day to learn......
Oh well, the other alternatives were either 52 or 80, one way, that's just too far and would wear me out.


:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Klondike93

It's just me wishing I would have stayed with what I started 14 years ago instead of just standing by waiting. I never realized it had been that long since I was first introduced to American Kenpo . I just kept waiting and hoping for someone to open a school close to home and here it is 14 years later and I still have travel 60 miles a day to learn......
Oh well, the other alternatives were either 52 or 80, one way, that's just too far and would wear me out.


:asian:

What rank do you hold in Kenpo, and how long ago did you start
training in Kenpo?

 

[tunetigress]

Klondike, I am 45, disabled, completely housebound, and female, and I STILL study Kenpo with everything I got. Hun, just remember, there is more than one way to pluck a chicken, just make damn sure you are sitting at that table when dinner is served!

 

[Blindside]

Klondike posted:
"I just kept waiting and hoping for someone to open a school close to home and here it is 14 years later and I still have travel 60 miles a day to learn...... Oh well, the other alternatives were either 52 or 80, one way, that's just too far and would wear me out."

Boy do I identifiy with that, I drive 80 miles roundtrip for my kenpo lessons, 3 days a week. I figure that I've put about 60,000 miles on my truck over the last 5 years, just for kenpo.

But then I don't have to deal with traffic, only two stoplights and 4 stop signs in 40 miles. You gotta love Wyoming!

Lamont