Disciplining the students

[KenpoTess]

Thanks all

Yes.. ADHD is a real affliction to some.. and unfortunately to some docs.. just a way of dealing with a stubborn child.. We have had quite a few kids in our school diagnosed with this.. one in particular who started at 14 with us.. we didn't think he would last a week.. He is an advanced Green and was doing fantastic.. then suddenly his grades Dropped dramatically.. he was slacking off in every aspect of his life.. His parents took him out of our class for a few weeks along with removing everything 'fun' from him. Come to find out.. he had been cheeking his medication and nobody knew.. now he's back on it.. his grades have skyrocketed.. he's listening to his teachers.. doing his assignments and best of all.. he's back in Kenpo.. He's 16 now and a real asset to our school He's great with the kids class and I've given him responsibility of dealing with Bubbee for the first time Friday night.. He did great

We've had other ADHD diagnosed kids who also did complete turnarounds with very happy parents.. I, myself think this disability is overdiagnosed or not diagnosed correctly by many physicians.. Parents take their 'acting out' kids to the docs .. when in reality.. hormones flaring high .. temperaments.. etc.. that a good ole talking too.. (*physical or verbal*) would suffice.
Growing up in a society which allows parents to lay blame of how their child acts onto such things as peer pressure.. blah blah blah.. it's really a sad situation that a lot of families are ruled by the child..
I can't tolerate the pure and simple facts.. we Cave into demands.. we bribe our children to do simple tasks .. PAY them to mow the lawn, clean their room.. etc.. They Expect to be treated as such.. $50.00 PS2 games.. play it a few times.. it sits and is forgotten.. Don't kids play outside anymore? Nah.. they are mashed potatoes.. It really perturbs me to see these future adults.. UNABLE To touch their Toes.. Panting and bent over in a cramp from running 40' .. *sighs.. it's really quite sad.........

Ok.. off it for now
:soapbox:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
Thanks all

Yes.. ADHD is a real affliction to some.. and unfortunately to some docs.. just a way of dealing with a stubborn child.. We have had quite a few kids in our school diagnosed with this.. one in particular who started at 14 with us.. we didn't think he would last a week.. He is an advanced Green and was doing fantastic.. then suddenly his grades Dropped dramatically.. he was slacking off in every aspect of his life.. His parents took him out of our class for a few weeks along with removing everything 'fun' from him. Come to find out.. he had been cheeking his medication and nobody knew.. now he's back on it.. his grades have skyrocketed.. he's listening to his teachers.. doing his assignments and best of all.. he's back in Kenpo.. He's 16 now and a real asset to our school He's great with the kids class and I've given him responsibility of dealing with Bubbee for the first time Friday night.. He did great

We've had other ADHD diagnosed kids who also did complete turnarounds with very happy parents.. I, myself think this disability is overdiagnosed or not diagnosed correctly by many physicians.. Parents take their 'acting out' kids to the docs .. when in reality.. hormones flaring high .. temperaments.. etc.. that a good ole talking too.. (*physical or verbal*) would suffice.
Growing up in a society which allows parents to lay blame of how their child acts onto such things as peer pressure.. blah blah blah.. it's really a sad situation that a lot of families are ruled by the child..
I can't tolerate the pure and simple facts.. we Cave into demands.. we bribe our children to do simple tasks .. PAY them to mow the lawn, clean their room.. etc.. They Expect to be treated as such.. $50.00 PS2 games.. play it a few times.. it sits and is forgotten.. Don't kids play outside anymore? Nah.. they are mashed potatoes.. It really perturbs me to see these future adults.. UNABLE To touch their Toes.. Panting and bent over in a cramp from running 40' .. *sighs.. it's really quite sad.........

Ok.. off it for now
:soapbox:

That's it, I m depressed again,. BTW, I forgot to take my meds this morning. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by RCastillo
That's it, I m depressed again,. BTW, I forgot to take my meds this morning. Thanks for the reminder!

*think pretty thoughts Ricardo.... hey least you're not outside digging out from under all this white stuff~!! Quit your kvetching.. and Sing a ditty or something....
lalalaaa..
Go take your meds ~!

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
*think pretty thoughts Ricardo.... hey least you're not outside digging out from under all this white stuff~!! Quit your kvetching.. and Sing a ditty or something....
lalalaaa..
Go take your meds ~!

Ok, I will, as soon as I get my 8x10 color glossy!:wink:

 

[bdparsons]

that I realized after my last post that I would probably be labeled as a someone who thinks that ADHD doesn't exist (at best) or a child beater (at worst). Let me assure you that neither is the case. BUT... I do believe that this disorder is "diagnosed" far too often and that there are proper, non-psyche scarring methods of non-corporal and corporal punishment.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

 

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by RCastillo
Ok, I will, as soon as I get my 8x10 color glossy!:wink:

Ok.. you've got it Ricardo..you can print it out yourself *G*

Now go take your Meds~!!!

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
Ok.. you've got it Ricardo..you can print it out yourself *G*

Now go take your Meds~!!!

But you have to travel to Wv for the autograph.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Seig
But you have to travel to Wv for the autograph.

I want it to be in a public place, where I know I'll be safe!:anic:

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by RCastillo
I want it to be in a public place, where I know I'll be safe!:anic:

You Wuss! You are both welcome and safe in my home.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Seig
You Wuss! You are both welcome and safe in my home.

The last thing the deer was told before he hit the dirt........................:sniper:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by bdparsons
that I realized after my last post that I would probably be labeled as a someone who thinks that ADHD doesn't exist (at best) or a child beater (at worst). Let me assure you that neither is the case. BUT... I do believe that this disorder is "diagnosed" far too often and that there are proper, non-psyche scarring methods of non-corporal and corporal punishment.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

ditto!

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by Hollywood1340
There are those of us out here that this is a true infliction and let me tell you it makes life hell. And I'm 21 years old. School was increadibly tough, no one understood me and I'm still dealing with how to deal with my "disorder", and will do so for the rest of my life. So yeah, just beware of how much slapping ya do. We do exist, and that most definantly does not help.

This sounds like some of the things Ive heard in court, He doesnt know what he did, he doesnt understand, he has disorders. I guess we should just diagnos everyone and let them have excuses their whole life..........
3 words, Individual responsibility, and parenting! Im not much older then you Im in my 20's as well so its not a generation gap or "not understanding", I hate to say it but we are all weird we all have quirks, and we are all definately misunderstood.

I remember getting my @$$ worn out with a strap, or playing the go pick me a switch game for things we blame on dignosis now days. Teachers and law enforcement spend too much govt time and money defending themselves because "disorders" Kids are hyper, I have 2, they are both very smart and constantly 110 MPH, doesnt mean I need to medicate or diagnos them, I just need to stay on my toes and be a good dad......there isnt a pill for that

 

[Hollywood1340]

Mr. Hunter,
Did you hear me shucking any more my personal responsibitly? Did you hear me making excuses for what I do, and failing to own up to what I do? Certainly didn't seem like it to me. Try living with it. I gaurentee you your attitude would change.

P.S. And yes, I do agree with you. To a point.

 

[Robbo]

As a father of a child with ADHD let me tell you it is not a 'made up' condition.

We went through 2 years of doctors and tests because we were skeptical about the ADHD disorder.

Anybody can do research using the internet to look up MRI scans ofa person with ADHD and a person w/o ADHD and will be able to see that there are functional differences between the two.

It's a medical fact that ADD exists and the parents who don't do the testing and research and just take their doctor's advice to stick their kids on Ritalin piss me off just as much as the people that automatically assume that the best way to get a child to behave is to smack them around.

Rob

 

[Michael Billings]

Awesome "intervention".

OK, once upon a time long, long ago, and in a galaxy far, far away ... I was a psycho, I mean a psychotherapist. I dealt primarily with adolescent and latency age kids (read that as any of them above 6 or so.)

ADHD, formerly ADD is not just a hyper kid, those are tough enough to deal with. But these kids just can't FILTER stimuli. Everything has the same saliency. It is not that they don't care, or don't try. Often they do, and they do. But some are pretty severe, then with bad, or no parenting you get the conduct disorders, who defend against ADD by not caring and acting out. Them's the ones I wanna slap up side the head (yepper, that is the absolutely worst thing to do to them ... but it is ok to fantasize.)

Conduct disorders can turn into Antisocial Personality Disorders and often end up in legal problems, so now I get to see them in my new career, and I don't have to fantasize any more but can and do intervene.

Now to the dojo, kwoon, dojang, studio, school or living room: Limit the stimulation, help them assign saliency (take their little faces the way Tess did, and focus them), reward them, and care about them.

Ricardo, you want to talk about burn out with kids. It was like a weight came off my shoulders when I got to work with criminals instead of kids. They are responsible for themselves, no matter what they try to convince you of. I love kids, I even love teaching kids, but it can be a trial.

You gotta keep the faith and keep hanging in there with them, even on those days when you are just worn out and you just realize ... darn, now I have a kid's class. Lead by example, from in front, not from behind, which a lot of parents have not quite got down yet. They have good intentions, but that don't always cut it.

Kudo to you Tess, exemplary job!!! Good for you to Kirk. Finding something these kids love, is the trick to teaching them how to focus and care. We should never have to be substitute parents, no matter what our role, teacher, MA instructor, coach, etc. But today's society just does not provide for the strong nuclear family, with extended family members there to take up the slack. When I grew up, the neighbors would think nothing of disciplining me, then taking me home for my family to do it again. I am not saying it made me good, but I did not lack for caring people all around, all the time. We miss this in todays society in most places.

I am glad to see the dojo brings this concern about kids in more diminsions than just the behavior toward the instructor. Great to see you supporting the parents, the other student's rights, and helping this kiddo on the right path.

Oss,
-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
Thanks all

Yes.. ADHD is a real affliction to some.. and unfortunately to some docs.. just a way of dealing with a stubborn child.. We have had quite a few kids in our school diagnosed with this.. one in particular who started at 14 with us.. we didn't think he would last a week.. He is an advanced Green and was doing fantastic.. then suddenly his grades Dropped dramatically.. he was slacking off in every aspect of his life.. His parents took him out of our class for a few weeks along with removing everything 'fun' from him. Come to find out.. he had been cheeking his medication and nobody knew.. now he's back on it.. his grades have skyrocketed.. he's listening to his teachers.. doing his assignments and best of all.. he's back in Kenpo.. He's 16 now and a real asset to our school He's great with the kids class and I've given him responsibility of dealing with Bubbee for the first time Friday night.. He did great

We've had other ADHD diagnosed kids who also did complete turnarounds with very happy parents.. I, myself think this disability is overdiagnosed or not diagnosed correctly by many physicians.. Parents take their 'acting out' kids to the docs .. when in reality.. hormones flaring high .. temperaments.. etc.. that a good ole talking too.. (*physical or verbal*) would suffice.
Growing up in a society which allows parents to lay blame of how their child acts onto such things as peer pressure.. blah blah blah.. it's really a sad situation that a lot of families are ruled by the child..
I can't tolerate the pure and simple facts.. we Cave into demands.. we bribe our children to do simple tasks .. PAY them to mow the lawn, clean their room.. etc.. They Expect to be treated as such.. $50.00 PS2 games.. play it a few times.. it sits and is forgotten.. Don't kids play outside anymore? Nah.. they are mashed potatoes.. It really perturbs me to see these future adults.. UNABLE To touch their Toes.. Panting and bent over in a cramp from running 40' .. *sighs.. it's really quite sad.........

Ok.. off it for now
:soapbox:

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
Thanks all

Yes.. ADHD is a real affliction to some.. and unfortunately to some docs.. just a way of dealing with a stubborn child.. We have had quite a few kids in our school diagnosed with this.. one in particular who started at 14 with us.. we didn't think he would last a week.. He is an advanced Green and was doing fantastic.. then suddenly his grades Dropped dramatically.. he was slacking off in every aspect of his life.. His parents took him out of our class for a few weeks along with removing everything 'fun' from him. Come to find out.. he had been cheeking his medication and nobody knew.. now he's back on it.. his grades have skyrocketed.. he's listening to his teachers.. doing his assignments and best of all.. he's back in Kenpo.. He's 16 now and a real asset to our school He's great with the kids class and I've given him responsibility of dealing with Bubbee for the first time Friday night.. He did great

We've had other ADHD diagnosed kids who also did complete turnarounds with very happy parents.. I, myself think this disability is overdiagnosed or not diagnosed correctly by many physicians.. Parents take their 'acting out' kids to the docs .. when in reality.. hormones flaring high .. temperaments.. etc.. that a good ole talking too.. (*physical or verbal*) would suffice.
Growing up in a society which allows parents to lay blame of how their child acts onto such things as peer pressure.. blah blah blah.. it's really a sad situation that a lot of families are ruled by the child..
I can't tolerate the pure and simple facts.. we Cave into demands.. we bribe our children to do simple tasks .. PAY them to mow the lawn, clean their room.. etc.. They Expect to be treated as such.. $50.00 PS2 games.. play it a few times.. it sits and is forgotten.. Don't kids play outside anymore? Nah.. they are mashed potatoes.. It really perturbs me to see these future adults.. UNABLE To touch their Toes.. Panting and bent over in a cramp from running 40' .. *sighs.. it's really quite sad.........

Ok.. off it for now
:soapbox:

Oops clicked before I wrote, my bad. I agree totally. I'm sure that the problem exists and needs special treatment, however I don't believe every 400 lb hippo has a thyroide condition. What you said about over diagnosed is right on. Plus it is much easier for parents to place the blame on some 'affliction' rather than poor parenting skills. I wish that I could deal with children with as much skill as you.

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by RCastillo
The last thing the deer was told before he hit the dirt........................:sniper:

Not true, the last thing that deer was told was, "Thank you ,God!"

 

[Nightingale]

ADHD is overdiagnosed for several reasons:

1. it is a phychological disorder that is diagnosed by doctors rather than psychologists. It is the ONLY psychological disorder that is usually NOT referred to a specialist.

2. the doctor gets their information primarily from conversing with the parent rather than observing the child. observing the child takes time the doctor simply doesn't have (and therefore, the child should be referred to the appropriate specialist, but usually isn't), and the parents are tired, upset, and frustrated, and typically because of this, make the child and the behavior out to be worse than it actually is, because its filtered through the lens of a very upset, angry, and helpless feeling parent, who doesn't want to look like a "bad" parent either.

3. Ritalin is an easy fix, and in the past was actually used for DIAGNOSIS! They'd put the kid on the drug and if it helped, they diagnosed the kid as ADHD. Of course Ritalin helps. Its a stimulant that sharpens the short term attention span. It works on anyone, ADHD or not, the same way other stimulants work... cup of coffee, anyone?

ADHD has been estimated to truly affect around 3-4% of children in the US. However, around 10% of US children are currently taking Ritalin or some other psychotropic medication for ADHD. (source: my grad school textbook for my class on special ed...I sold the book back and forgot the name. LOL.)

Parents: if your child is diagnosed ADHD, demand to see the appropriate specialist to make sure.

Instructors: If you find a child who is ADHD when they walk in, ADHD when they leave, but not ADHD in your class, talk to the parent about what you've observed. ADHD kids simply do not have the ability to maintain that kind of focus. If they can focus in your class without medication, they are probably not ADHD. If the parent doesn't believe you, invite them to watch a few classes, preferably sneaking in when class has already started, so the child doesn't immediately know that they're there. (generally, when the parent is present, the child will start to act out, so if the parent can observe without the child's knowledge, it works better.)

 

[Michael Billings]

It is terribly over diagnosed, and they did "Rule out" ADD with Ritalin. It stimulates the reticular activating system, which theoretically "filters" stimuli, and allows the kids to focus. But it is a stimulant also. If it worked in the morning, but the child was hyper in the afternoon, a good psychiatrist would flip it, so they received it in the afternoon, but not the morning, then evaluate – through actual instruments (questionnaires) what the behavioral and performance changes were. It had to be documented for the records at MHMR where I worked for several years. The therapists had to follow up, attend academic reviews/treatment planning, meeting with parents etc. The same was true in my seven years working at a residential treatment / psychiatric hospital. They were all under the supervision of a psychiatrist. A family doctor has no business prescribing for ADD without a mental status exam and actually doing some verification of the symptoms from outside sources, to rule out a conduct problem with the parent only. This medication should not be for behavior management, but to assist the child in experiencing success in a difficult area of his/her life.

I know lots of successful people that are ADHD ... even as adults Hollywood. I have lawyer friends (hmmm.... not sure if I should call them friends? Sure I should) who are always doing about 20 things at once. Some of them they even do well. They learned somewhere to channel the hyperactivity into productive channels and to artificially assign saliency to tasks in a specific order. Some excel in their fields.

It is an uphill battle, and one that cannot be won without somehow learning self-discipline. One way is through Kenpo classes. I have a kid with Tourette's syndrome. He channels the noises and movements into kiai's and activity, sometimes I have to slow him down, but usually he has found a way to channel himself into an activity he loves.

Oss,
-Michael Kenpo-Texas.com