Is Illegal Immigration Moral?

[Empty Hands]

I am in favor of rule by law. I also accept that the law (as quoted) is an ***; it is a sword that cuts without noticing what it has damaged. However, I accept the notion that laws are meant to be followed, and I support the idea that they should be.

In most cases and circumstances, I agree. I reserve my moral judgment however as to when the law should be disobeyed, if in my judgment it should. I refuse to give up that judgment to blindly follow that of others. I fully expect to suffer the consequences however if that happens.

 

[Empty Hands]

Those sneaking across borders are NOT citizens...

Which is completely irrelevant to the points I was making. Well done!

 

[WC_lun]

I don't think anyone has said that the immigration laws should not be enforced. In my opinion, they should be enforced. However, vilifying illegal immigrants as a tool for arguement on the issue is wrong. It sets up a premise which it is an us vs them thing. We are the law abiding US citizens who do no wrong and they are the dirty criminals who do not respect our laws or way of life. It just isn't that simple. Many, if not most, illegal immigrants are hard working, honest people that other than breaking the immigration laws are law abiding people. Painting them as something less than that is a cheap trick based on a faulty arguement. Knowing that, I can have empathy and compassion for them, while still believing that those laws need to be enforced.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

In most cases and circumstances, I agree. I reserve my moral judgment however as to when the law should be disobeyed, if in my judgment it should. I refuse to give up that judgment to blindly follow that of others. I fully expect to suffer the consequences however if that happens.

Agreed.

The nature of the argument in the thread above (not you) is tedious. It is heading more-or-less the direction I expected it to head; it's an 'ah ha, gotcha!' kind of argument.

If I am asked if I support the law, then the argument is made that I must therefore be in favor of securing our borders against illegal aliens. If I do not agree, then the argument is made that I want people to be raped, murdered, and general anarchy to prevail. I am not going to play that nasty little game. I support the law; my lifelong involvement in the military and law enforcement should be evidence enough of that; I do not have to prove my bonafides to anyone. I simply do not care about whether or not that law is enforced in this one particular case. That is nothing more than personal opinion, and I never represent it as anything else - not a moral position, not a legal position. I believe my opinion is the correct one, of course, and I'll both defend it and explain my reasoning, but it remains nothing more than an opinion. I won't be portrayed as immoral or supporting illegality across the board for having an opinion. I do not aim the above statements at you, of course. I am speaking to the thread.

 

[WC_lun]

Also, using its the "its Mexico's fault" arguement isn't very good either because many, many, illegal immigrants come through Mexico, not from Mexico.

 

[Cryozombie]

The nature of the argument in the thread above (not you) is tedious. It is heading more-or-less the direction I expected it to head; it's an 'ah ha, gotcha!' kind of argument.

If I am asked if I support the law, then the argument is made that I must therefore be in favor of securing our borders against illegal aliens. If I do not agree, then the argument is made that I want people to be raped, murdered, and general anarchy to prevail.

That wasn't my intention or what I was trying to do. I thought I was being clear in my question, and wasn't laying a trap. Maybe I could rephrase it without the term "ok" and maybe ask "For the sake of this exercise lets assume we all agree that we don't need to prosecute an illegal alien for sneaking into the country, so where do we draw the line on their behavior? If in doing so they commit Identity Theft, forged documents, Income Tax evasion, driving without a licence, etc? Or as those acts were "forced" by the poorly thought out law that cause the first crime we desire to overlook should they be ignored as well?"

Seriously, It's not a trap, I'm genuinely trying to understand the mindset behind this argument. I do think some of your Subsequent posts clear some of that up for me Bill, and EH made an excellent post that also mimics many of my feelings about the law in general also. But I also have a personal reason for thinking that Illegal immigration is wrong that I don't feel like sharing here at this time.

I also recognize that by making immigration less difficult to do legally that the issues that I have could be mitigated, and this is why I am in favor of positive immigration reform.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I think we need to be clear in our laws about helping the people who need it and not helping those who have little need to be in a country. I believe a country should be open to helping refugees and giving them sanctuary, a humane people can do no less. We don't need to support those however who can support themselves in or have nothing to fear from living in their own country. Many refugees can bring with them a lot to offer a country that takes them in, the refugees from the Taliban for example were mostly doctors, lawyers and others who didn't have the approval of the Taliban to live, female teachers, medics etc especially faced death and torture but they can offer a lot to their new home, they often hope to go back to their original countries too.

Immigration is a subject that need a careful look at it not a blanket of disapproval covering all cases.

Here is my response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE&feature=player_embedded&fmt=22

It's a six minute video and provides an interesting perspective.

 

[geezer]

I also recognize that by making immigration less difficult to do legally that the issues that I have could be mitigated, and this is why I am in favor of positive immigration reform.

I agree with you. Now back to the OP. Is illegal immigration moral? No, but its human. Perfect morality is not. So, as Bill pointed out, it's a human reality. And we need to address the issue intelligently and humanely.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I agree with you. Now back to the OP. Is illegal immigration moral? No, but its human. Perfect morality is not. So, as Bill pointed out, it's a human reality. And we need to address the issue intelligently and humanely.

You stress the word "humanely". What would be humane? As the video that I posted the link to pointed out, we are only taking the hardest working people out of those countries. The citizens of the countries that we are talking about would be better served by keeping these hard working people in their country to help make it better. Not in us allowing them to come into our country.

 

[granfire]

You stress the word "humanely". What would be humane? As the video that I posted the link to pointed out, we are only taking the hardest working people out of those countries. The citizens of the countries that we are talking about would be better served by keeping these hard working people in their country to help make it better. Not in us allowing them to come into our country.

true, but those people can't be kept in the country, short of building a wall. And then it's not 100%. Unless of course you are willing to shoot your hard working countrymen for wanting to make a better life for themselves where that is actually feasable.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

true, but those people can't be kept in the country, short of building a wall. And then it's not 100%. Unless of course you are willing to shoot your hard working countrymen for wanting to make a better life for themselves where that is actually feasable.

You're right.

But the question is regarding the morality, ours and theirs, of illegal immigration.

I say we do a diservice to the people of the home country when we allow the hardest working individuals into our country to sneak into our country and stay. We should foist their work ethic back into their own country in order to have them raise the standards there, not to siphon off the best and the brightest for our own gain.

I also think that those that leave those countries do a diservice to their fellow countrymen and women, saying that their interests are more important then their neighbors. That's why I think illegal immigration on their part, for the most part, is immoral. They are abandoning their fellow countrypeople to their squalor, in the U.S.'s case, most likely never to return.

As far as shooting them, no, I wouldn't. But if they ever returned, unless it is specifically to stay and help their fellow countrymen, I would shun them and offer them no help, goods, or services.

 

[granfire]

their morality is to make the best living they can for their family.

Don't forget that that 3 $ an hour strawberry picking job pays for oh so much more back home.

So the home country is not losing out. It has no jobs for those hard working folks to make a decent living.

It's a mess all around.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

their morality is to make the best living they can for their family.

Don't forget that that 3 $ an hour strawberry picking job pays for oh so much more back home.

So the home country is not losing out. It has no jobs for those hard working folks to make a decent living.

It's a mess all around.

I understand that is their morality. It's kinda sad, too.

And the home country is losing out. It is losing it's hard working people who could expend that effort making their country better, which would include entrepenuars who would create jobs.