Is bjj original

[Gerry Seymour]

And is very effective!!!

Question is whether TMA is open enough to learn to improve now that they know and known for 30 years. I like to see them get into the Octagon and win some fights. I am Chinese, I would LOVE to see CMA beating people in the octagon. I will be cheering them on. I am just waiting.

The problem with that question is it supposes two things (one clearly, the other by inference). Firstly, it supposes that TMA practitioners would change if they weren’t closed-minded. Many of us choose to remain with arts because of the challenge inherent in some of the esoteric practices.

Secondly, it seems to suppose the only worthwhile pursuit is one that can produce elite competitors. Many folks only want to to develop some fighting skill, and aren’t prioritizing their effectiveness over other trained people, at least not at a competitive level.

So we can learn lessons from the development of BJJ and MMA, but can also choose not to alter our traditional style as much as you seem to think we should.

 

[Alan0354]

The problem with that question is it supposes two things (one clearly, the other by inference). Firstly, it supposes that TMA practitioners would change if they weren’t closed-minded. Many of us choose to remain with arts because of the challenge inherent in some of the esoteric practices.

Secondly, it seems to suppose the only worthwhile pursuit is one that can produce elite competitors. Many folks only want to to develop some fighting skill, and aren’t prioritizing their effectiveness over other trained people, at least not at a competitive level.

So we can learn lessons from the development of BJJ and MMA, but can also choose not to alter our traditional style as much as you seem to think we should.

I actually agree with you. We have freedom of choice, this is honest.

I was from Hong Kong, I was there when Bruce Lee was famous, we heard news everyday about BL. CMA people HATED him, but nobody really dare to touch him, one challenged him and he got creamed. BL completely changed the concept of MA by combining boxing hands, TKD kicks and some WC hands. After BL died, all of a sudden, a lot of people came out and said they can beat BL and invalidating him. BL changed the whole MA scene over 50 years ago, literally started the whole kick boxing. But people kept talking trash of him after his death since, kept talking about how they can beat BL, really never accept him.

Then came Royce Gracie in the first 3 UFC in early 90s, That change the whole MA scenes. Completely changed the concept again. I was really not following the MA until lately. I thought it's so obvious now that it is on the world stage, unlike the older days where there were really no videos of BL, that everything was by hear-said. I would imagine this will change people's mind and open to accept the result and learn from it.

To my big surprise after I join here and realize that was not the case. I see the repeat like how people talked about BL 50 years ago. Sure, BL won't last 2 minutes inside the Octagon today. Neither Royce Gracie can last 2 minutes as proven by the beating by Matt Huges. BUT these two were the ones that revolutionized the whole MA scene.

I can honor what you said. But there are still a lot of people that refuse to accept the new world, making excuses that there are too many rules in UFC, that's why they cannot win. Kept talking how they can fight the take down on paper. It's so funny that I heard people saying their techniques is too deadly they cannot use it and all that. Just keep saying they know better but refuse to step into the Octagon. Exactly like what people said in Bruce Lee's days. There would be no argument from me if they say they want to honor the tradition and they want to follow what was taught from the older days. That it’s an art.

I'll be the first one to say I am one dimensional, I only know striking and I am chopped meat facing bjj. I am NOT happy that what I work very hard those days becomes totally obsoleted. But I have to accept the fact. Painful, but that's how the world is. I only use my practice as aerobics. If not because I started learning stick fight, I have no interest in MA anymore. I am too old and injured to get into BJJ and MMA, I admit that instead of making excuses.

Funny pure BJJ got creamed too!!! I have to be honest that whenever I saw a guy from Brazil goes in the Octagon, I always support the other guy!!!! It's still painful BJJ destroyed my dream.

 

[gerardfoy50]

They did though.

And that’s my only issue with bjj, otherwise it’s awesome, although not the champ of grappling as they make out. Kabib wrecked everyone on the ground and he doesn’t do bjj

 

[drop bear]

And that’s my only issue with bjj, otherwise it’s awesome, although not the champ of grappling as they make out. Kabib wrecked everyone on the ground and he doesn’t do bjj

I was thinking more about the Romans and basically ripping off everything that was greek.

 

[gerardfoy50]

I was thinking more about the Romans and basically ripping off everything that was greek.

True the Romans didn’t make much on their own, they were great at seeing what worked and implementing it into their system, sputum and galdius for a start, good for them for being open minded, gracies did the same, differences is the Romans didn’t cover this up and claim to have invented it themselves. Gracies are great salesmen and self propagandists, great at organising etc, but not creative

 

[Jimmythebull]

Gracies are great salesmen and self propagandists,

Bill Wallace pretty much said the same about them. Always in their favour

 

[gerardfoy50]

Bill Wallace pretty much said the same about them. Always in their favour

Clever rich boys without honour

 

[Dirty Dog]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Emotions can run high and strong opinions can exist, but keep it friendly. Otherwise threads will be locked, accounts suspended...

Mark A Cochran
@Dirty Dog
MartialTalk Senior Moderator

 

[Dirty Dog]

The puzzle mats I've trained on were absolutely awful for falls. I'd almost prefer unpadded carpet (like in hotel ballrooms). I'm sure some must be better than that, but those were just bad.

I think a lot of them are. But I think that is at least in part because most are quite thin. I got some that are 1.5" thick, and they work well, while still being able to take them apart for storage.

 

[Oily Dragon]

There are a few common themes emerging in the thread. I've formed my answers in the form of arguments to appease the feral people.

- TMAers are closed minded. But we know this isn't true, many people who seek out MA are open minded people (they're exploring something exotic).

- people like Bruce Lee and Royce Gracie changed things on a global level. Sure, but not changed as in created, changed as in back to what was already real for a long time...in the past.

- UFC has been the catalyst ground for MA. Does this really need to be re-litigated? Of course it is, but many of the most successful people in there studied many arts, and aren't out there dissing TMA. Especially the Gracies.

Huh, it's almost as if Kung Fu won after all. Thanks, BJJ. I think this Shakira video sums it all up. Ties the youngin and the old master together. One big happy fam.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Oh my, wrong video. Well not wrong, but not right either.

This was my Shakira BJJ call. When I went to get a song that summed up South American Kung Fu, this is what popped into my head.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think a lot of them are. But I think that is at least in part because most are quite thin. I got some that are 1.5" thick, and they work well, while still being able to take them apart for storage.

I assume that's at least part of the issue. The ones I was on were also pretty hard - slapping out on a fall (Judo-style breakfalls) on them was worse than on unpadded carpet. I had to teach folks to not slap (and we had to limit which throws we'd use).

 

[Alan0354]

- TMAers are closed minded. But we know this isn't true, many people who seek out MA are open minded people (they're exploring something exotic).

Sometimes, effective technique doesn't have to be exotic or fancy. You hit it on the nail on this. Look at Muy thai, there's NOTHING pretty and exotic about it, it's like street fight, but it's the best in striking arts. BJJ is not pretty at all. But combine the two, you got something big.

- people like Bruce Lee and Royce Gracie changed things on a global level. Sure, but not changed as in created, changed as in back to what was already real for a long time...in the past.

BL is really the first MMA combining TKD, Boxing and WC. BJJ just modify Judo and improve it. You don't have to invent anything, just take the effective ones and WIN.

- UFC has been the catalyst ground for MA. Does this really need to be re-litigated? Of course it is, but many of the most successful people in there studied many arts, and aren't out there dissing TMA. Especially the Gracies.

It's the Mixed Martial Arts. No one art can do it all, take whatever is effective and combine together. Cut the fancy moves, keep the practical and simple and effective stuffs.


Now, there are people that enjoy MA as an art and want to keep the tradition, that's perfectly good, no argument on that. It's like I like this particular painting, I don't have to give reason as long as I enjoy it.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Sometimes, effective technique doesn't have to be exotic or fancy. You hit it on the nail on this. Look at Muy thai, there's NOTHING pretty and exotic about it, it's like street fight, but it's the best in striking arts. BJJ is not pretty at all. But combine the two, you got something big.


BL is really the first MMA combining TKD, Boxing and WC. BJJ just modify Judo and improve it. You don't have to invent anything, just take the effective ones and WIN.


It's the Mixed Martial Arts. No one art can do it all, take whatever is effective and combine together. Cut the fancy moves, keep the practical and simple and effective stuffs.

And I didn't even mean exotic techniques. I meant exotic for our time but both are true. Few people who walk into an MA school will ever fight in their whole lives, before or after.

 

[Buka]

Bill Wallace pretty much said the same about them. Always in their favour

How about some nice cheese with that fine whine?

 

[Jimmythebull]

How about some nice cheese with that fine whine?

For you that's actually funny. Keep it up you might make friends

 

[Alan0354]

And I didn't even mean exotic techniques. I meant exotic for our time but both are true. Few people who walk into an MA school will ever fight in their whole lives, before or after.

I meant "Looks" exotic!!!

A lot of the moves are just fancy rather than effective. Even as good as TKD kicks that I learned before, they are pretty, high knee, pivot and all. But it's NOT any more effective than Muy Thai kicks. Difference is TKD kicks are much harder on the back. I am the victim of those kicks. People will know when they get old!!!

It's perfectly fine to train and not to fight. I use it as aerobics.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I meant "Looks" exotic!!!

A lot of the moves are just fancy rather than effective. Even as good as TKD kicks that I learned before, they are pretty, high knee, pivot and all. But it's NOT any more effective than Muy Thai kicks. Difference is TKD kicks are much harder on the back. I am the victim of those kicks. People will know when they get old!!!

It's perfectly fine to train and not to fight. I use it as aerobics.

I have very fond memories of training with a friend who was a world champion in BJJ.

The best part was watching them train their little girl. From there to infinity.

 

[gerardfoy50]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Emotions can run high and strong opinions can exist, but keep it friendly. Otherwise threads will be locked, accounts suspended...

Mark A Cochran
@Dirty Dog
MartialTalk Senior Moderator

Was what

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Emotions can run high and strong opinions can exist, but keep it friendly. Otherwise threads will be locked, accounts suspended...

Mark A Cochran
@Dirty Dog
MartialTalk Senior Moderator

I disagree with what you say,but will defend with my life your right to say it

 

[Buka]

For you that's actually funny. Keep it up you might make friends

I don't really need friends, but thanks for the kind thought, Jimmy.