Interesting Instructor Pairings

[DrBarber]

The dynamics of having two different instructors tends to have one of two results.

The first result is both instructors keep repeating the subject that the other instructor recently taught and it becomes a "chest-thumping mine is better than yours" situation.

The other result is one of mutual respect. The late Dr. Wilfredo Matias had an excellent knife game but he would never teach knife when a renowned knife expert was teaching at the same seminar. While Dr. Matias focused on other aspects, it still made for an interesting seminar.

Dear Andrew,

It seems to me that if the two instructors keep repeating what the other has done then neither of them have anything that they can really teach independently. I have never had to repeat what anyone else has taught and I have never been on a multi-instructor program where someone followed my presentation with a variation of the same material that I had first presented. Common sense and courtesy would preclude that from happening unless it was agreed on before the event took place.

If someone only has a 'one trick pony' then they ought to leave that little pony in the stable, stay at home until their skills and knowledge base have expanded. Earlier this year in Anaheim, CA, at the Modern Arnis Philippines "Tipunan", I was 6th or 7th on the program and I most certinly did not repeat anything already presented by anyone who had presented before me. I was also able to learn a couple things from both those who both preceeded as well followed me on the floor. I participated in nearly every presentation as a student.

There are good reasons for people to go to as well as avoid multiple instructor formats. Each one of those multi instructor events should be judged on the merits of the people presented and not on a simple knee-jerk rejection of all multi instructor program just because it is that type of event.

I have also found that multi instructor programs are good sources for finding new people to feature at my college seminar series that has been running since 1986. I have been able to offer a wide variety of instructors because I had first knowledge of these people and the scouting trip was more than successful in terms of costs. 3 to 8 potential seminar/camp instructors on a single show-bill? Very cost effective.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[DrBarber]

Then again, on a humorous note, I prefer one instructor for the whole seminar - especially if I am the instructor. Then I don't share the money with anyone.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Hi Dan,

I am in full agreement regarding sharing the money!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Andrew Evans]

Dr. Barber,

Hello fellow doctorate holder!

It seems to me that if the two instructors keep repeating what the other has done then neither of them have anything that they can really teach independently.

Unfortunately, the two instructors I would like to host do not get along. I am very sure that they would take turns pointing out the flaws in the other's technique/methods. Hence, the term "interesting pairings" as most of these would never happen.

I have never had to repeat what anyone else has taught and I have never been on a multi-instructor program where someone followed my presentation with a variation of the same material that I had first presented.

You're lucky. Once I visited another school and was asked to demonstrate a technique. The instructor interrupted and then showed the students how they do it better. When it was my turn, instead of moving to another technique, I went back to the subject and continued building on it. After all, it is easy to follow someone and make a total fool out of them.

Earlier this year in Anaheim, CA, at the Modern Arnis Philippines "Tipunan", I was 6th or 7th on the program and I most certinly did not repeat anything already presented by anyone who had presented before me.

Did the preceding presentations affect what you were planning to teach? If someone taught what you planned on teaching, how would you have adjusted?

I was also able to learn a couple things from both those who both preceeded as well followed me on the floor. I participated in nearly every presentation as a student.

I highly commend you for that! It shows a lot of humility and maturity.

Take care,
Andrew Evans, J.D.


Regards,
Andrew

 

[Dan Anderson]

Unfortunately, the two instructors I would like to host do not get along. I am very sure that they would take turns pointing out the flaws in the other's technique/methods.
Regards,
Andrew

Andrew,

Your first sentence is quite correct. Let me post, in public right here and now, that I would not indulge in the second one if we I shared the same floor.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[DrBarber]

Dr. Barber,

Hello fellow doctorate holder!


Unfortunately, the two instructors I would like to host do not get along. I am very sure that they would take turns pointing out the flaws in the other's technique/methods. Hence, the term "interesting pairings" as most of these would never happen.


You're lucky. Once I visited another school and was asked to demonstrate a technique. The instructor interrupted and then showed the students how they do it better. When it was my turn, instead of moving to another technique, I went back to the subject and continued building on it. After all, it is easy to follow someone and make a total fool out of them.


Did the preceding presentations affect what you were planning to teach? If someone taught what you planned on teaching, how would you have adjusted?


I highly commend you for that! It shows a lot of humility and maturity.

Take care,
Andrew Evans, J.D.


Regards,
Andrew

Hello Dr. Evans,

Congratulations, though belated. One way out of the problem of having the pair at a seminar would be to put together a set of rules that each would have to abide by, if they accepted an invitation from you to participate in a seminar. Or have them appear seperately with the other giving a seminar at the same time on a different section of the floor, if your room were large enough. Divide the seminar participants into two groups with one group going to each instructor for a pre-determined period of time. For convience let's call it a morning and an afternoon session. Then the participants can switch and work with the other instructor for the second session. Since both instructors are working at the same time, they will not have a valid opportunity to be critical of the other person in real time and based on what they actually saw for themselves. If you avoid the side by side, one follows the other format, you avoid giving them opening to be critical of one another. You'll never know if that pairing would or would not actually happen until you ask them to do the seminar. I would suggest contacting each of them privately and explain what you would like to do and see what happens.

That was a rude thing for that fellow to do to you. It shows me that he was both small minded and insecure. After-all there are numerous ways that a technique can be modified or adapted. Some ways work better for an individual than some others. A good deal of the differences can be traced to an individuals size, strenght, weight, martial experience and preferences. Of course that fellow opened the door for you to take his example and build on it and I can't say that I would have acted differently than you did. After-all, he inivited you to demonstrate, he deserved to have his "better way" toyed with, teased and expanded upon... he set the ball in motion.

Yes and no with regard to the preceeding presentations. Each of the others had been heavily focused on the usage of the single stick. I had intended to use a double stick drill to set up my presentation, but with so much stick work preceeding my presentation, I dropped the stick work, put the double sinawali drill forward as an empty hand drill and then moved right into the empty hand self-defense applications with trapping included. I have been at a couple of other programs where my planned presentation was taught by someone else and I simply fell back on another set of ideas and techniques that allowed me to avoid copying the other fellows.

At a program in 2002, an instructor used the redonda and single sinawali drills as the focus of his 3 hour presentation and I really enjoyed his program. When I opened the morning session the next day, I used the flow/crossada drills and built my self-defense application off of those drills. I also added the pocket stick, kubaton keychain and Gunting Knife to my empty hand applications. My original plan was to teach from the redonda drill as my starting point.

Going to a seminar or camp program should be regarded as an opportunity to learn from others. It is also a chance to validate some of your ideas and movement against what you see others doing. Even if you do not discover something new, you might re-discover something that you already knew but hadn't used in a long time. There is some truth to the old, oft-used put-down, 'I've forgotten more than someone ever knew'.

Depending on how long you have been in the arts and how broad or narrow your training experiences it is entirely possible that there is some old stuff hanging out in the back of your mind because we tend to put new experiences first. We sometimes forget that the new stuff was built on the previous learning. Without the old stuff in place we would always be true beginners lacking in foundation, scope and breadth.

Perronally, I like multi instructor programs when they can and are augmented by the single instructor format. I enjoy the variety and different levels of intensity that the different instructors have as the teach. From the multi instructor programs, I have found individual instructors whom I gone on the work with over extended periods of time in large groups, small groups and some private or semi-private sessions. It all comes down to just how flexible and open different people are to learning. There simply isn't a single best way to teach or learn.

I hope that this information has answered your questions.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Andrew Evans]

Dr. Barber,

Thank you for the information about setting up a multi-instructor format. You are definitely a wealth of knowledge who has provided me with a lot of great ideas. Talk about thinking outside of the box!

Also, you are one of the big players in Modern Arnis that I haven't had the privilege of training with. Hopefully, I will change that sometime in the near future.

Regards,

Andrew Evans, J.D. 2001

 

[Rich Parsons]

I have seen the IMAF group with six MoTTs, do a technique chain, where one would teach a technique and then one would teach a counter, and then the counter to the counter. This was done in a nice an learning way, and all knew about it when they entered the floor. A professional group

To answer the question about, what would you do if someone else did what you wanted? I saw this at the Martial Talk Seminar in Buffalo. Tim and I discussed what he would do and what I would do. Yet the other arts present, were concentrating on joint locks or grappling, and I heard a couple of people say that was so clsoe to what they wanted to do, that if they did it would look the same or too close. So, they thought of something else to teach. This did not happen as a pre-meeting it just happened, as the day developed. Once again a very professional group to work with.

 

[kempomama]

Hey guys! Let's throw some women into the mix. Mary Ann Presas (Phillipines- old school), Laura Worden (U.S.- old school) and Lisa McManus (tapi-tapi era) would be a good billing. Look out Charlie's Angels! The gals are back in town.

 

[Guro Harold]

Hey guys! Let's throw some women into the mix. Mary Ann Presas (Phillipines- old school), Laura Worden (U.S.- old school) and Lisa McManus (tapi-tapi era) would be a good billing. Look out Charlie's Angels! The gals are back in town.

Don't forget about Karen from Chicago.
Gabe and crew from Germany.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Ms. Elfman in the Northeast is someone people might enjoy to leave.

 

[James Patrick]

I think that the multiple instructor format works reasonably often, doesn't it? There are a lot of good Modern Arnis instructors who bring in other instructors to teach, especially at the big 3 and 4 day seminars.

I think the key to making it work, though, is if the instructors work well together, and plan out what they are going to teach ahead of time; so that they could bring the most value to the attendees. I can't see pairing up people who don't get along and having the instructors compete with one another. That just seems silly and counter-productive to me.

James Patrick, Ndy. (no degree yet...lol)

 

[DrBarber]

Dr. Barber,

Thank you for the information about setting up a multi-instructor format. You are definitely a wealth of knowledge who has provided me with a lot of great ideas. Talk about thinking outside of the box!

Also, you are one of the big players in Modern Arnis that I haven't had the privilege of training with. Hopefully, I will change that sometime in the near future.

Regards,

Andrew Evans, J.D. 2001

Dear Dr. Evans,

It was my pleasure being able to sharee the information with you and if you can use and it works for you that is even better. I do enjoy thinking outside of the box. That style of thinking can provide one with very novel solutions to problems that seem impervious to solutions.

As for your comment on me being "...one of the big players in Modern Arnis...", I must say that you have overstated the case, because I am not a MoTT or Datu and I resigned from the IMAF in 1994. Per my promise to the late Professor Presas, I never stopped teaching Modern Arnis, but I also never rose above the Lakan Tatlo rank that I held in 1994. There are numerous others who are ranked higher than myself in the system. In addition, I am an Independent who teaches an Escrima-Kenpo-Arnis blending, that Professor formally recognized in 1989.

As far as training with me, we can arrange for that with a couple of private e-mails. Perhaps we could share a joint instructional seminar. Meeting as peers and sharing the floor with you would be an honor.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Good thread

I like both types of seminar formats really, IMHO it depends upon the instructor teaching.

1) Some instructors can't carry the whole day or camp, so in this case the multi instructor is good.

2) I don't like the multi instructor mode if I paid to see someone and the person is sharing the bill with someone else who I'm not real interested in seeing.

GM Remy was like that I wanted to see GM Remy not someone else teach. It doesn't mean that the other instructor wasn't any good just that I wanted to see the top instructor.

3) I like the whole building on a foundation and having the instructors come off of that and teach.

An example of this was SM Dan's MA camp this past summer, for the most part there was some core central techniques, drills that were taught by different people in different formats. Abaniko (fan strikes) were included in most of the teaching sessions, flow drills such as single care sparring (6 count/Sumbrada type drills), Tapi Tapi etc. etc. empty hand drills were taught with knife applications (Bram's material) etc. etc.

The other extreme was the Symposium. (No offense Dr. Barber and I don't want to turn this into a rag on the Symposium) Here the theme was Modern Arnis but it was more outside of the box Modern Arnis. And in that case it was distracting.

4) I like the multi instructor format especially to see the differences between instructors and their methds of teach/instruction and their techniques.

Again Dan's seminar was a good example of this with Dan, Dieter, Bambit, Robert Quinn, Shishir, and Bram. But it was over a four day period so everyone got a good chance to see the instrcutor at least twice for about 3 hours of instruction.

I don't know how a 1 hour format would work like this, it's almost to short.

 

[Mark Lynn]

As for interesting instructor pairings

1) Andrew if I'm reading yours and Dan's posts right that would be an interesting pairing. Let me know if you ever pull it off and I'll be there.

2) Dan and Dieter basically because they work well (it seemed like) on the floor together at Dan's seminar. It seemed like they were having a good time, that being the case I think anything they did together would be a great seminar.

3) I've seen the MOTTs (and inclded here is Dr. Schea) many times and have always enjoyed their seminars and instruction. The last Houston camp I went to (2002) I really enjoyed it and their presentations.

4) Bambit and anyone else from the PI or old school Modern Arnis.

5) I would have liked to have seen Rocky and some other old school Modern Arnis US players.

Mark

 

[Rich Parsons]

As for interesting instructor pairings

1) Andrew if I'm reading yours and Dan's posts right that would be an interesting pairing. Let me know if you ever pull it off and I'll be there.

2) Dan and Dieter basically because they work well (it seemed like) on the floor together at Dan's seminar. It seemed like they were having a good time, that being the case I think anything they did together would be a great seminar.

3) I've seen the MOTTs (and inclded here is Dr. Schea) many times and have always enjoyed their seminars and instruction. The last Houston camp I went to (2002) I really enjoyed it and their presentations.

4) Bambit and anyone else from the PI or old school Modern Arnis.

5) I would have liked to have seen Rocky and some other old school Modern Arnis US players.

Mark

Mark,

How would you define "Old School"?

Best regards

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Even though I am not a super fan of multiple instructor
seminars on occasion they can be good. How about some
"old school" Flint style Modern Arnis with Jeff Fields,
Jim Powers and Jeff Arnold. That might be interesting!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Rich Parsons]

During a dinner discussion last night several friends and I decided that the following pairings might be interesting:

1. GM Jeff Delaney & Master Rich Parsons
2. Professor Lisa McManus & Guro Sal Tadoro
3. Guro Dawad Muhammad & PG Remy Presas, Jr.
4. Guro Bob Hubbard & Palusut

Morgan

I would work with Mr. Delaney or any on this list for that matter.

Thank you Morgan for the mention

 

[donald]

Mr.Huk Planas, and Mr.Bong Soo Han

 

[DragonMind]

Pairings I'd like to see:

Edessa Ramos and Robert Quinn (think size, body type, etc)
Dieter Knuttel and Shishir Inocalla (the wrecking ball and the scalpel)
Bram Frank and Ray Dionaldo (I just like blades...)
Dan Anderson and Bruce Chiu (tournament fighter and street cop)

 

[DrBarber]

Pairings I'd like to see:

Edessa Ramos and Robert Quinn (think size, body type, etc)
Dieter Knuttel and Shishir Inocalla (the wrecking ball and the scalpel)
Bram Frank and Ray Dionaldo (I just like blades...)
Dan Anderson and Bruce Chiu (tournament fighter and street cop)

DragonMind,

Your selection of pairings raised a couple more pairs in my own mind:

1. Edessa Ramos and "Arnis Princess" - I've seen and worked with the former and have only read commets by the latter.

2. Tom Bolden and any of the Datus named by Professor Presas. This is a repeated suggestion, but the idea still intriges me.

3. Tom Bolden and any of the MoTTs. A new suggestion but another very interesting set of pairing.

4. Sal Tadoro and Dan McConnell. Neither is at the top of their respective organizations but are leading players within them. Not all of the fun should be reserved for the leadership levels.

5. Rocky Paswik and Douglas Pierre. The contrast in body type, personal movement style and additional arts studied would provide very compelling contrasts in approach.

6. Tom Bolden and Richard 'Huk' Palanas. CHA-3 Kenpo as opposed to Parker Kenpo. Both are Hawaiian-based Kenpo arts with some shared lineage.

Respectfully,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.