if you want to groin kick. train the inside leg kick.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Clarity across systems is nice. Names for techniques that are thought out and understood easily are nice as well. Take for instance the aforementioned Abracadabra kick it is simply a fake roundhouse turned into a front kick. Which is nothing new or special as it has been around a long time. Having said that Jon Jones delivers it very well!

One of my "pet peeves" with systems is when they do not think out what they name their techniques very well. It can get to the point where it is incredibly stupid. I for one absolutely love the Dog Brothers martial system as run by Guru Crafty Dog. However, I cannot stand how he names techniques and principles in his system. Love the system but think the names border on ridiculousness. (ie. Dog Catcher, Mullet, Fire Hydrant, Dog Catcher, etc, etc.)

Clarity and easily understood make things nice in my opinion. Rather than having to explain to me or show me what an Abracadra kick is if someone say's oh it is a fake low roundhouse followed by a front kick. I can understand that easily right from the get go.

 

[Tez3]

Clarity across systems is nice. Names for techniques that are thought out and understood easily are nice as well. Take for instance the aforementioned Abracadabra kick it is simply a fake roundhouse turned into a front kick. Which is nothing new or special as it has been around a long time. Having said that Jon Jones delivers it very well!

One of my "pet peeves" with systems is when they do not think out what they name their techniques very well. It can get to the point where it is incredibly stupid. I for one absolutely love the Dog Brothers martial system as run by Guru Crafty Dog. However, I cannot stand how he names techniques and principles in his system. Love the system but think the names border on ridiculousness. (ie. Dog Catcher, Mullet, Fire Hydrant, Dog Catcher, etc, etc.)

Clarity and easily understood make things nice in my opinion. Rather than having to explain to me or show me what an Abracadra kick is if someone say's oh it is a fake low roundhouse followed by a front kick. I can understand that easily right from the get go.

Exactly!!

As I said before these names are for marketing purposes. I wish we had thought of that a few years back, we had an absolutely brilliant young MMA fighter, very talented, he fought as a teenager and KO'd with a flying knee Phil 'Billy' Harris who went on to fight in the UFC. However our lad had the public personality of a dead slug, he was a lovely lad but very quiet and somewhat shy. He could fight but couldn't 'entertain' or promote himself and in the MMA business you need to do that, make people remember you with catchphrases, or a 'bad' persona always smack talking or naming kicks. Jon Jones has done the public awareness bit with 'his kick', clever but it's still a feint roundhouse then a front kick lol.

 

[drop bear]

Clarity across systems is nice. Names for techniques that are thought out and understood easily are nice as well. Take for instance the aforementioned Abracadabra kick it is simply a fake roundhouse turned into a front kick. Which is nothing new or special as it has been around a long time. Having said that Jon Jones delivers it very well!

One of my "pet peeves" with systems is when they do not think out what they name their techniques very well. It can get to the point where it is incredibly stupid. I for one absolutely love the Dog Brothers martial system as run by Guru Crafty Dog. However, I cannot stand how he names techniques and principles in his system. Love the system but think the names border on ridiculousness. (ie. Dog Catcher, Mullet, Fire Hydrant, Dog Catcher, etc, etc.)

Clarity and easily understood make things nice in my opinion. Rather than having to explain to me or show me what an Abracadra kick is if someone say's oh it is a fake low roundhouse followed by a front kick. I can understand that easily right from the get go.

depends. I was trying to link one concept to another. Traditionally the inside leg kick and the groin kick are trained in separate manners. So people were still confused. To the point posters could not understand how you would even hit the groin with that inner leg kick.

and people train different systems. I don't feel that i should demand everyone use mma terms. I don't feel i need to know the Japanese for everything.

and look my round house kick really can be different to a karate round house kick. So there would still need to be an explanation.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Yet a roundhouse to the inside can be a leg kick or a groin kick. Not really confusing just a matter of targeting. In IRT we train roundhouse kicks to the groin all the time and with armor so you can fully kick there. Of course the opponents stance would dictate which kick to use a roundhouse kick or a front kick depending on if the groin is covered from the front or open from the front.

I would not demand anyone use terms I use but overall I have tried to stay concise and simple with what I use. Vertical roundhouse is confusing and frankly it is a front kick. So 99% of the people out there are going to call it that. It just confuses things. It is one of the things I do not like about Eddie Bravo's system. I love the movement but hate the names.

In regards to the look feel of roundhouse kicks yes they can look some what different and also hit with different parts of the leg ie. instep or shin. Still in the end they are a roundhouse kick.

 

[drop bear]

Yet a roundhouse to the inside can be a leg kick or a groin kick. Not really confusing just a matter of targeting. In IRT we train roundhouse kicks to the groin all the time and with armor so you can fully kick there. Of course the opponents stance would dictate which kick to use a roundhouse kick or a front kick depending on if the groin is covered from the front or open from the front.


I would not demand anyone use terms I use but overall I have tried to stay concise and simple with what I use. Vertical roundhouse is confusing and frankly it is a front kick. So 99% of the people out there are going to call it that. It just confuses things. It is one of the things I do not like about Eddie Bravo's system. I love the movement but hate the names.

In regards to the look feel of roundhouse kicks yes they can look some what different and also hit with different parts of the leg ie. instep or shin. Still in the end they are a roundhouse kick.

i was trying to answer this question.

"How do you roundhouse someone in the groin standing in front of them"

i had already mentioned that you change the angle of the kick. And was trying to simplify it. This was linked to the idea that you can train a groin kick by training the inside leg kick.

now a groin kick is traditionally a different chamber. And so not really the same kick.

and for the life of me i don't know why.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

i was trying to answer this question.

"How do you roundhouse someone in the groin standing in front of them"

The person who asked that question was probably thinking about an opponent standing square to you rather than in an angled fighting stance.

now a groin kick is traditionally a different chamber. And so not really the same kick.

and for the life of me i don't know why.

Do you mean you don't know why the round house kick to the groin uses a different chamber or why the different chamber would mean a different kick?

Regarding the first, it doesn't necessarily use a different chamber. I've seen systems that use the exact same action whether the kick is targeting the leg or the groin. The only difference is that the kick goes a little higher.

Regarding the second, it's again down to the system (or the individual). Some folks like to use different names for every small variation on a technique, while others like to just use one umbrella term to cover a host of variations.

 

[K-man]

i was trying to answer this question.

"How do you roundhouse someone in the groin standing in front of them"

i had already mentioned that you change the angle of the kick. And was trying to simplify it. This was linked to the idea that you can train a groin kick by training the inside leg kick.

now a groin kick is traditionally a different chamber. And so not really the same kick.

and for the life of me i don't know why.

??? One minute you are saying it is the same kick, now you're saying it's not.

In karate almost all kicks come from some form of chamber. To me that does two things. It telegraphs your intention and it robs your technique of power. I don't teach them that way for those reasons. They are fine for point sparring but not as effective as other kicks for the street. The Muay Thai kicks come from the hip and the leg extends until the moment of contact meaning that it delivers maximum power.

You cannot do that kick to the groin from in front and to me it would be a waste of effort to use it as a groin strike. It certainly could be used to target the inner thigh.

If you look at the groin kicks in this video they do not come from chamber and could not be directed to the inner thigh.

No matter how you want to dress it up, a groin kick is a groin kick.

 

[drop bear]

The person who asked that question was probably thinking about an opponent standing square to you rather than in an angled fighting stance.



Do you mean you don't know why the round house kick to the groin uses a different chamber or why the different chamber would mean a different kick?

Regarding the first, it doesn't necessarily use a different chamber. I've seen systems that use the exact same action whether the kick is targeting the leg or the groin. The only difference is that the kick goes a little higher.

Regarding the second, it's again down to the system (or the individual). Some folks like to use different names for every small variation on a technique, while others like to just use one umbrella term to cover a host of variations.

terminology i get. Whether you want to call every different movement something new is fine.
The training methodology i don't. All of this stemmed from the idea that to train a strike the other guy needs to act like he has been struck. Because you cant train a groin kick live.

my view is you can by using the inner leg kick as a substitute.

 

[drop bear]

??? One minute you are saying it is the same kick, now you're saying it's not.

In karate almost all kicks come from some form of chamber. To me that does two things. It telegraphs your intention and it robs your technique of power. I don't teach them that way for those reasons. They are fine for point sparring but not as effective as other kicks for the street. The Muay Thai kicks come from the hip and the leg extends until the moment of contact meaning that it delivers maximum power.

You cannot do that kick to the groin from in front and to me it would be a waste of effort to use it as a groin strike. It certainly could be used to target the inner thigh.

If you look at the groin kicks in this video they do not come from chamber and could not be directed to the inner thigh.

No matter how you want to dress it up, a groin kick is a groin kick.

kyokashin use chambered kicks. And can throw them hard enough to hurt you and in a manner that they are hard to defend.

so you may not chamber. But there are people who fight full contact that can make that kick work.

 

[K-man]

kyokashin use chambered kicks. And can throw them hard enough to hurt you and in a manner that they are hard to defend.

so you may not chamber. But there are people who fight full contact that can make that kick work.

Did you ever train a martial art? I don't dispute that a chambered kick can hurt or knock someone out. Again if you read my posts properly you might learn something! Chambered kicks are great for sport but not for the street.

What I said was chambering telegraphs your intention and robs your technique of power. What part of that do you think is wrong?

 

[drop bear]

Did you ever train a martial art? I don't dispute that a chambered kick can hurt or knock someone out. Again if you read my posts properly you might learn something! Chambered kicks are great for sport but not for the street.

What I said was chambering telegraphs your intention and robs your technique of power. What part of that do you think is wrong?

lol. You even martial art bro?

The bit i think is wrong is the bit about the chamber telegraphing the kick and robbing it of its power.

and the bit about a chambered kick being good for sport but not good for self defence.


if a trained fighter cannot stop that kick and cannot absorb the damage of that kick. And he is facing these kicks all the time.

Where does this street attacker develop skills and tactics to do so?

otherwise i agree.

 

[drop bear]

See this is where i could find you a guy who chambers his kicks and challenge you to stop them. We have a karate champion who chambers his kicks. And i cant stop them. My coach. (second best welterweight in Australia) struggles to stop them.

k man i am sorry but you are not going to stop those kicks. Not in the ring. Not in the street.

 

[K-man]

See this is where i could find you a guy who chambers his kicks and challenge you to stop them. We have a karate champion who chambers his kicks. And i cant stop them. My coach. (second best welterweight in Australia) struggles to stop them.

k man i am sorry but you are not going to stop those kicks. Not in the ring. Not in the street.

Comprehension is not your strong point. Whether you stop them or not is not the issue. I repeat again what I wrote about chambering ... "It telegraphs your intention and it robs your technique of power." And of course not everyone is a karate champion. We are talking about everyday martial artists, not the exceptions.

 

[drop bear]

Comprehension is not your strong point. Whether you stop them or not is not the issue. I repeat again what I wrote about chambering ... "It telegraphs your intention and it robs your technique of power." And of course not everyone is a karate champion. We are talking about everyday martial artists, not the exceptions.

look you can restate your opinion as boldly as you want. But if i cant stop a kick from hitting me and cant take the damage it does. Telegraphed intention and robbed of power is hardly a description i would use for that style of kicking.

i would say more accurately comes out of nowhere and bloody hurts.

 

[drop bear]

Actually this reminds me of a sparring story where our karate guy knocked a guy out with a kick.

when he woke up his comment was "i saw that coming"

if he had seen that coming he would not have been put to sleep by it.

 

[RTKDCMB]

See this is where i could find you a guy who chambers his kicks and challenge you to stop them. We have a karate champion who chambers his kicks. And i cant stop them. My coach. (second best welterweight in Australia) struggles to stop them.

k man i am sorry but you are not going to stop those kicks. Not in the ring. Not in the street.

Just because you and your coach have poor defensive skills it doesn't mean everyone else has.

 

[K-man]

Just because you and your coach have poor defensive skills it doesn't mean everyone else has.

Touché.

 

[K-man]

look you can restate your opinion as boldly as you want. But if i cant stop a kick from hitting me and cant take the damage it does. Telegraphed intention and robbed of power is hardly a description i would use for that style of kicking.

i would say more accurately comes out of nowhere and bloody hurts.

May God help you if you ever encounter a Muay Thai kick! They have far more power and are even harder to stop.

 

[drop bear]

Just because you and your coach have poor defensive skills it doesn't mean everyone else has.

me my coach and everyone this guy fought to become the karate champion that he is.

 

[K-man]

Good luck to you. You are obviously a far greater martial artist than I could ever aspire to. I'm out of here.