Hybrid/TMA/MMA/Etc...

[Indie12]

I don't know what to say here either other than anythng called Traditioanl TKD is not older than the 1950s



Nothing wrong with that "Traditional" or what I much prefer to call "Old School" TKD is rather awesome... any made up lineages IMO just take away from that and make it less than what it truly is



All I can say is look to truth not myth...I too am out

Well then maybe you could define 'traditional'?

Truth can be represented by many elements!

 

[Indie12]

That's what I thought... I'm done.

Huh? Thought about what?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

All I can say is that Ive done both tkd and shotokan and while they have similarities, they are in no way the same thing. There are enough distinguishable differences that I consider them to be two different arts.

 

[Chris Parker]

Traditional... for JMA/OMA, predating 1900. Albeit, OMA is a bit hard to judge. JMA specifically it has to predate the end of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Anything else by Japanese standards & terms, is Gendai.

There's a lot to go through here, so I'm only going to pick up on one point, and that is the JMA dates.... for it to be considered Koryu it needs to predate 1868 and the Meiji Restoration, after that and it is classed as Gendai, as you say. That said, Gendai can be very traditional in it's approach... for example Uchida Ryu Tanjojutsu, which is from the late 1800's, one or two Naginata schools, even Aikido is considered a Traditional Japanese Martial Art. It must be said here that Koryu simply means "old style, or old flow", and Gendai refers to it being "rooted, or based recently", nothing about whether or not it's a "traditional" system at all.

 

[chinto]

Why don't you consider TaeKwonDo a Traditional Martial Art?

TMA= Traditional Martial Art.

It was systematized in 1955 as I recall, and is heavily based on Shotokan and mixed with some techiniques that are said to be traditional Korean kicks.

the thing called TKD seems to vary massively from school to school and yet all are called TKD. one school will teach something that is very much a combat type of art and call it TKD ( namely the same kind of TKD that the ROK Marines and ROK Rangers use ) and the school down the block will be teaching only 'Olympic TKD '.... so that is why I don't think of it as TMA but more as TMS (traditional martial sport) much like sport judo.

so partly how new it is, but mainly because TKD does not seem to know what it wants to be even yet.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

It was systematized in 1955 as I recall, and is heavily based on Shotokan and mixed with some techiniques that are said to be traditional Korean kicks.

the thing called TKD seems to vary massively from school to school and yet all are called TKD. one school will teach something that is very much a combat type of art and call it TKD ( namely the same kind of TKD that the ROK Marines and ROK Rangers use ) and the school down the block will be teaching only 'Olympic TKD '.... so that is why I don't think of it as TMA but more as TMS (traditional martial sport) much like sport judo.

so partly how new it is, but mainly because TKD does not seem to know what it wants to be even yet.

I have to agree with that point. I am a tkdist, yet when I see a demo by a "sport" school I really dont recognise much of what they are doing. My daughter is a red belt in tkd and when the last olympics were on she was watching the tkd (she was only 6 at the time), and she said to me "this looks cool dad, what MA is this?". Considering she had been training for 2 years in tkd at that time and yet it was completely unrecognisable to her I thought it really highlighted just how different sport tkd is to the martial side of tkd.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Far be it from me to attempt to redirect the thread back to the original topic, but I'd like to point out that the mention of TKD would show that hybrid martial arts have been around a while. I'd say they're here to stay.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

What's everyone's views on the recent surge of people going into 'MMA', 'Hybrid MA', but not 'TMA'?

I think that we need to accept that MMA is not a fad. The vast majority of what we keep calling 'TMA' that are practiced are all postwar arts and are all hybrid arts. I practice Hapkido. Hybrid art. I practice taekwondo. Hybrid art.

TMA is a very nebulous term. What makes it traditional? Belts? Asian orgin? White pajamas.

MMA is a fad. Okay, so what? Remember the ninja craze in the eighties? That was a fad too. Ninjutsu is still around. MMA will still be around in thirty years I suspect.

And how recent are we talking? Didn't this 'fad' start in the nineties? That's fifteen to twenty years. Not so recent.

I suspect (and correct me if I am wrong) that Kano's contemporaries thought of judo as a fad when he started it. Different uniform, a game based ranking system, and oriented around sport. Sounds kind of like MMA.

Daniel

 

[Steve]

I think that we need to accept that MMA is not a fad. The vast majority of what we keep calling 'TMA' that are practiced are all postwar arts and are all hybrid arts. I practice Hapkido. Hybrid art. I practice taekwondo. Hybrid art.

TMA is a very nebulous term. What makes it traditional? Belts? Asian orgin? White pajamas.

MMA is a fad. Okay, so what? Remember the ninja craze in the eighties? That was a fad too. Ninjutsu is still around. MMA will still be around in thirty years I suspect.

And how recent are we talking? Didn't this 'fad' start in the nineties? That's fifteen to twenty years. Not so recent.

I suspect (and correct me if I am wrong) that Kano's contemporaries thought of judo as a fad when he started it. Different uniform, a game based ranking system, and oriented around sport. Sounds kind of like MMA.

Daniel

Great post, Daniel. Even the most conservative person would put the birth of MMA at almost a decade ago when the UFC adopted what became the unified rules for MMA in 2003.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Great post, Daniel. Even the most conservative person would put the birth of MMA at almost a decade ago when the UFC adopted what became the unified rules for MMA in 2003.

So MMA is as much of a 'fad' as taekwondo was in 1965.

Daniel

 

[OzPaul]

I don't think that MMA is a fad at all. Long before the UFC and Pride FC etc. people competed in "no holds barred" fighting and Vale Tudo events for years. These days what we see if just a polished version, in a cage (and ring), on PPV, events around the world etc. The exposure that MMA has received is the reason people are now starting to talk about it so much. Do you think BJJ would be so popular without Royce Gracie doing so well in the early UFC's? or did anyone think people outside of the US would start taking Wrestling serious without people like Kevein Randleman, Dan Henderson, Randy Couture etc. My personal opinion is that it is great and i have and always will be a fan, however it is wrong to compare it to TMA's because it is a sport with rules and referees. I know if i'm out on the street that i'm not going for a single leg take down, i'd rather kick them in the nuts and run off.

 

[Indie12]

My personal opinion is that it is great and i have and always will be a fan, however it is wrong to compare it to TMA's because it is a sport with rules and referees. I know if i'm out on the street that i'm not going for a single leg take down, i'd rather kick them in the nuts and run off.

Good Point!

I agree with the hybrid Martial Art talk... Hybrids have been around for many many years.