Hybrid/TMA/MMA/Etc...

[Indie12]

What's everyone's views on the recent surge of people going into 'MMA', 'Hybrid MA', but not 'TMA'?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Its just the latest fad. It was karate when I was in highschool, then everyone did tkd, the latest craze is mma till the next one comes along. Currently tkd is the most practiced art in the world I think, so I wouldnt say TMA's are no longer in vogue (if you class tkd as a TMA).

 

[chinto]

Its just the latest fad. It was karate when I was in highschool, then everyone did tkd, the latest craze is mma till the next one comes along. Currently tkd is the most practiced art in the world I think, so I wouldnt say TMA's are no longer in vogue (if you class tkd as a TMA).

actually I don't really consider TKD a TMA. but otherwise, ya the fad thing is kinda sad at times.

 

[Omar B]

We had judo in the 40's and 50's, the Kung Fu and Karate craze in the 70's, the ninja craze in the 80's. Now we have MMA. This too shall pass. It'll normalize and reach a level where like any pro sport you'll have your professionals, fans and your amateurs who train, just like boxing, baseball, soccer, cricket, hockey.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

While I agree that this craze will slow down a bit it is a lot different than previous fads because of the UFC, TV-shows, pro opportunities, etc. I think MMA is here to stay in a pretty big way!

If I could buy UFC stock I would!

 

[Kwan Jang]

MMA both as a sport and a training method are here to stay. Like all others, the fad phase will pass, as will some of the obnoxious fans moving on to other fads to cling to. However, MMA as a training method in particular is an important step in the evolution of the martial arts. This gives young, healthy athletes an avenue to pressure test their skills in a relatively safe manner like never before. Is it the end all and be all of the martial arts? No, but it gives a safe training method that has never really existed before and combined with elements from RBSD and practical weapons work like in the FMA's allows practical applications and training far closer to simulate real close quarter combat and self defense to a level that no other combative sport or training method has to date.

It used to be that if you lived in Korea, you had the primarily the choices and exposure to their national systems. The same could be said for Japan, China, Thailand, ect. Thirty to forty years ago, the masses in each country would have little exposure or oopurtunity to train in a foreign system, especially with a high level of instruction. Nor did you see a high level of cooperation, sharing and cross training between high level masters of the TMA's that you are seeing today. The "melting pot" that began in the USA and Europe is spreading world wide now. This does not mean the end of the TMA's by any means, but with far more exposure to more knowledge and training methods, everyone has the oppurtunity to benefit. My prediction is that MMA as both a sport and training method will also continue to evolve as competitors "discover" far more from the TMA's than are being used regularly now.

 

[Xue Sheng]

While I agree that this craze will slow down a bit it is a lot different than previous fads because of the UFC, TV-shows, pro opportunities, etc. I think MMA is here to stay in a pretty big way!

If I could buy UFC stock I would!

Although I do agree with you it should be taken into consideration Kung Fu, which was here to stay in a big way from 1972 to 1975

 

[Apatride]

The big thing about MMA is that it is the missing link between Sport fighting and Trad MAs. So it is definitely a trend at the moment but it is difficult to predict how big it will be in 10 years. The only sure thing is that it will remain big.
Communication is also another point, Kung Fu or Karate fans had to go to the video store and buy/rent movie with Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris, now any one can have access to more material than they could watch in a life time.
What MMA lacks in spirituality, it has it in fun and accessibility, if you are a fit young guy, you can start having fun immediately, no need to spend years punching in the air and the grappling part insures that you start "sparing" from the beginning.
In a society where we want everything immediately, MMA is the best option, it also emphasize technique as much as fitness where other arts tend to focus too much on one or the other.

 

[Indie12]

actually I don't really consider TKD a TMA. but otherwise, ya the fad thing is kinda sad at times.

Why don't you consider TaeKwonDo a Traditional Martial Art?

TMA= Traditional Martial Art.

 

[Indie12]

MMA both as a sport and a training method are here to stay. Like all others, the fad phase will pass, as will some of the obnoxious fans moving on to other fads to cling to. However, MMA as a training method in particular is an important step in the evolution of the martial arts. This gives young, healthy athletes an avenue to pressure test their skills in a relatively safe manner like never before. Is it the end all and be all of the martial arts? No, but it gives a safe training method that has never really existed before and combined with elements from RBSD and practical weapons work like in the FMA's allows practical applications and training far closer to simulate real close quarter combat and self defense to a level that no other combative sport or training method has to date.

It used to be that if you lived in Korea, you had the primarily the choices and exposure to their national systems. The same could be said for Japan, China, Thailand, ect. Thirty to forty years ago, the masses in each country would have little exposure or oopurtunity to train in a foreign system, especially with a high level of instruction. Nor did you see a high level of cooperation, sharing and cross training between high level masters of the TMA's that you are seeing today. The "melting pot" that began in the USA and Europe is spreading world wide now. This does not mean the end of the TMA's by any means, but with far more exposure to more knowledge and training methods, everyone has the oppurtunity to benefit. My prediction is that MMA as both a sport and training method will also continue to evolve as competitors "discover" far more from the TMA's than are being used regularly now.

I'll agree to that to a point! There are basically two types of MMA 1. Sport 2. Combat
which one are you speaking of?

MMA (The cage fighting stuff) doesn't involve weapons nor does it train with multiple opponents, environmental factors, or is it really close to RBSD, RBSD training allows for 'whatever means' necessary to gain control of the opponent. MMA is purely (basically) jiu-jitsu, muay thai, and boxing put together, MMA itself is still limited.

 

[Indie12]

Who would agree/disagree that MMA has done more damage to the Martial Arts reputation then good?

 

[clfsean]

Why don't you consider TaeKwonDo a Traditional Martial Art?

TMA= Traditional Martial Art.

Because it's a Korean adaptation of an Okinawan/Japanese martial art. Besides the rabid nationalization, TKD (depending on the kwoon) is essentially either Shito-ryu or Shotokan.

Japanese karate isn't IMO "traditional" since it's a Japanese adaption of traditional Okinawa martial arts. Japanese samurai based arts, however, I do consider traditional Japanese martial arts.

 

[Indie12]

Because it's a Korean adaptation of an Okinawan/Japanese martial art. Besides the rabid nationalization, TKD (depending on the kwoon) is essentially either Shito-ryu or Shotokan.

Japanese karate isn't IMO "traditional" since it's a Japanese adaption of traditional Okinawa martial arts. Japanese samurai based arts, however, I do consider traditional Japanese martial arts.

Not really. As a TKD practitioner I can tell you that Gen Choi (the founder of TKD) borrowed Martial Skills primarily from Tae Kyon, Hwarang-Do, and various Korean Arts. Yes, TKD has some influence from Japanese Arts, such as borrowing of Forms, but it's not really an adaptation/influence of Okinawan/Japanese Arts, that's a misrepresentation!! Tae Kwon Do with an exception of Japanese/Okinawan Forms and a few other things, is Korean!

Tae Kwon Do has a long lineage of older Arts dating back centuries, now yes, some of the Korean Arts have influences from Japanese/Okinawan and Chinese Arts, but Tae Kwon Do was developed as a means of giving Korea it's own identifying system, calling it anything but... Korean... is a disservice to TKD.

I classify Okinawan Karate or Japanese Jiujitsu as Traditional, since they come from a long lineage of traditional methods. To touch on the Samuari Arts, those are really several Arts, all in which I also classify as 'Traditional'. But to each his/her own!

Just out of curiosity, how do you define Traditional Martial Art? Or are you going be classification based on individual system only?

 

[clfsean]

Not really. As a TKD practitioner I can tell you that Gen Choi (the founder of TKD) borrowed Martial Skills primarily from Tae Kyon, Hwarang-Do, and various Korean Arts. Yes, TKD has some influence from Japanese Arts, such as borrowing of Forms, but it's not really an adaptation/influence of Okinawan/Japanese Arts, that's a misrepresentation!! Tae Kwon Do with an exception of Japanese/Okinawan Forms and a few other things, is Korean!

Ok... couple of things. I earned a 3rd Dan in Taekwondo back in the 80's & spent the first 15 years of my MA experience practicing KMA (TKD & a little KSD). My best friend trained in Shotokan. Everything we did was indentical except my kicks were better & we used Korean terms. Forms wise, we were note for note & we didn't do Tekki.

Hwarang-do??? Really??? You buy that?

Tae Kwon Do has a long lineage of older Arts dating back centuries, now yes, some of the Korean Arts have influences from Japanese/Okinawan and Chinese Arts, but Tae Kwon Do was developed as a means of giving Korea it's own identifying system, calling it anything but... Korean... is a disservice to TKD.

Nope... it's a disservice to Koreans to attempt to nationalize something like a MA to create their own MA identity. Granted... In no way am I condoning what happened before & during WW2 by the Japanese & their actions. But seriously... TKD is anything but Korean at it's root & foundation.

I classify Okinawan Karate or Japanese Jiujitsu as Traditional, since they come from a long lineage of traditional methods. To touch on the Samuari Arts, those are really several Arts, all in which I also classify as 'Traditional'. But to each his/her own!

Samurai arts cover a wide variety of skills & such. But I agree with this.

Just out of curiosity, how do you define Traditional Martial Art? Or are you going be classification based on individual system only?

Traditional... for JMA/OMA, predating 1900. Albeit, OMA is a bit hard to judge. JMA specifically it has to predate the end of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Anything else by Japanese standards & terms, is Gendai.

CMA... Anything pre-1960's & the kungfu cinema craze.

KMA... show me something that is alive, existing & survived prior to 1911.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ok... couple of things. I earned a 3rd Dan in Taekwondo back in the 80's & spent the first 15 years of my MA experience practicing KMA (TKD & a little KSD). My best friend trained in Shotokan. Everything we did was indentical except my kicks were better & we used Korean terms. Forms wise, we were note for note & we didn't do Tekki.

Hwarang-do??? Really??? You buy that?



Nope... it's a disservice to Koreans to attempt to nationalize something like a MA to create their own MA identity. Granted... In no way am I condoning what happened before & during WW2 by the Japanese & their actions. But seriously... TKD is anything but Korean at it's root & foundation.



Samurai arts cover a wide variety of skills & such. But I agree with this.



Traditional... for JMA/OMA, predating 1900. Albeit, OMA is a bit hard to judge. JMA specifically it has to predate the end of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Anything else by Japanese standards & terms, is Gendai.

CMA... Anything pre-1960's & the kungfu cinema craze.

KMA... show me something that is alive, existing & survived prior to 1911.

talking as a Pre-Olympic TKD guy...I agree with you.

Talking as a CMA guy...leave it to the devil talker to start trouble

 

[Indie12]

Ok... couple of things. I earned a 3rd Dan in Taekwondo back in the 80's & spent the first 15 years of my MA experience practicing KMA (TKD & a little KSD). My best friend trained in Shotokan. Everything we did was indentical except my kicks were better & we used Korean terms. Forms wise, we were note for note & we didn't do Tekki.

Hwarang-do??? Really??? You buy that?

12: Look it up!



Nope... it's a disservice to Koreans to attempt to nationalize something like a MA to create their own MA identity. Granted... In no way am I condoning what happened before & during WW2 by the Japanese & their actions. But seriously... TKD is anything but Korean at it's root & foundation.

12: Not true, Tae Kyon is a Korean Martial Art, along with Hwrang-Do which TKD has lineage too!

Samurai arts cover a wide variety of skills & such. But I agree with this.



Traditional... for JMA/OMA, predating 1900. Albeit, OMA is a bit hard to judge. JMA specifically it has to predate the end of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Anything else by Japanese standards & terms, is Gendai.

12: That could include many Arts!

CMA... Anything pre-1960's & the kungfu cinema craze.

KMA... show me something that is alive, existing & survived prior to 1911.

12: Hwarang-Do based on the Hwarang of Korea. Ssierium which is still active in Korea and Tae Kyon which is still practiced today...

Easier to respond that way!

 

[clfsean]

talking as a Pre-Olympic TKD guy...I agree with you.

Talking as a CMA guy...leave it to the devil talker to start trouble

Oh you would go there ... and you were trying to take over without having a clue because you don't speak properly... :whip1:

 

[clfsean]

Easier to respond that way!

That's what I thought... I'm done.

 

[Indie12]

Ok... couple of things. I earned a 3rd Dan in Taekwondo back in the 80's & spent the first 15 years of my MA experience practicing KMA (TKD & a little KSD). My best friend trained in Shotokan. Everything we did was indentical except my kicks were better & we used Korean terms. Forms wise, we were note for note & we didn't do Tekki.

Hwarang-do??? Really??? You buy that?



Nope... it's a disservice to Koreans to attempt to nationalize something like a MA to create their own MA identity. Granted... In no way am I condoning what happened before & during WW2 by the Japanese & their actions. But seriously... TKD is anything but Korean at it's root & foundation.



Samurai arts cover a wide variety of skills & such. But I agree with this.



Traditional... for JMA/OMA, predating 1900. Albeit, OMA is a bit hard to judge. JMA specifically it has to predate the end of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Anything else by Japanese standards & terms, is Gendai.

CMA... Anything pre-1960's & the kungfu cinema craze.

KMA... show me something that is alive, existing & survived prior to 1911.

talking as a Pre-Olympic TKD guy...I agree with you.

Talking as a CMA guy...leave it to the devil talker to start trouble

Unfortunately!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Easier to respond that way!

I don't know what to say here either other than anythng called Traditioanl TKD is not older than the 1950s

"Traditional taekwondo" typically refers to the martial art as it was established in the 1950s and 1960s in the South Korean military; in particular, the names and symbolism of the traditional patterns often refer to elements of Korean history.

"Sport taekwondo" has evolved in the decades since then and has a somewhat different focus, especially in terms of its emphasis on speed and competition (as in Olympic sparring). Sport taekwondo is in turn subdivided into two main styles; One derives from Kukkiwon, the source of the sparring system sihap gyeorugi which is now an event at the summer Olympic Games and which is governed by the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF). The other comes from the International Taekwon-Do Federation

Nothing wrong with that "Traditional" or what I much prefer to call "Old School" TKD is rather awesome... any made up lineages IMO just take away from that and make it less than what it truly is

Unfortunately!

All I can say is look to truth not myth...I too am out