Hwa Rang Do

[MartialArtist]

The ancient hwa rang? I do not doubt that almost all the Korean martial arts are based on it. Even TKD (the name) is fairly new, around 50 years old, it was based on the old schools which did have ties with the ancient hwa rang. Archery also played a big part in the Korean martial arts believe it or not until the last 100 years or so. It isn't a well-known idea, but yes, martial artists back then did train with arrows. The ancient Koreans were known for their accuracy, speed, and versatility with bows and arrows and Korean modifications of the Chinese crossbow which was much more advanced than the crossbows used in Europe during the Middle Ages.

 

[jkn75]

Originally posted by MartialArtist

Archery also played a big part in the Korean martial arts believe it or not until the last 100 years or so. It isn't a well-known idea, but yes, martial artists back then did train with arrows. The ancient Koreans were known for their accuracy, speed, and versatility with bows and arrows and Korean modifications of the Chinese crossbow which was much more advanced than the crossbows used in Europe during the Middle Ages.

Thank you for pointing this out, people sometimes forget the depth of techniques and amount of weapons in Korean Martial Arts. There isn't a good resource for history as there is with Chinese and Japanese arts.

Archery is actually coming back in Kuk Sool Won. They are now teaching it at the seminars. It is fun but very difficult to do the traditional draw. (Unfortunately, I have yet to shoot an arrow, the seminar i went to this summer didn't have it.)

:asian:

 

[kenpo_jeff]

My Kuk Sool instructor does teach archery at the black belt level. Whether or not you believe that HwarangDo is the "be all/end all" martial art that it claims, I just look at it as having a more complete curriculum. Kuk Sool, Hapkido type of schools are more advanced and complete curriculums (in general), while Taekwon-Do is really (IMHO) an art for beginners. I believe HwarangDo also has a beginning curriculum called TaeSooDo. In the end, it's just your interests, aspirations and what your instructor can offer you.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by kenpo_jeff

My Kuk Sool instructor does teach archery at the black belt level. Whether or not you believe that HwarangDo is the "be all/end all" martial art that it claims, I just look at it as having a more complete curriculum. Kuk Sool, Hapkido type of schools are more advanced and complete curriculums (in general), while Taekwon-Do is really (IMHO) an art for beginners. I believe HwarangDo also has a beginning curriculum called TaeSooDo. In the end, it's just your interests, aspirations and what your instructor can offer you.

TKD being a beginner art my @ss. It takes extensive training and I'm guessing your making your conclusions on McDojangs.

 

[kenpo_jeff]

Sorry you disagree with my beliefs. TKD is a striking art. There is very little exposure to falling, locking, or weapons. Therefore, it is not a comprehensive martial art.

And no, my experience is not with McDojangs. I have been studying traditional Taekwon-Do for the past 15 years. Is that enough to satisfy you? Once I was exposed to Kuk Sool and Kenpo it became very apparent what Taekwon-Do is.

Just think about it. Gen. Choi's mission was to teach Taekwon-Do to the world. You cannot do that with an art that takes decades to master. It does not take decades to master the basics of Taekwon-Do. Even at the advanced ranks, maybe you try to perfect a double leg flying kick, so what. If you aren't going to use the techniques you are perfecting in an actual fight, then they are just techniques.

If your instructor is teaching you more than just the foundations found in Taekwon-Do, then good for you.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by kenpo_jeff

Sorry you disagree with my beliefs. TKD is a striking art. There is very little exposure to falling, locking, or weapons. Therefore, it is not a comprehensive martial art.

And no, my experience is not with McDojangs. I have been studying traditional Taekwon-Do for the past 15 years. Is that enough to satisfy you? Once I was exposed to Kuk Sool and Kenpo it became very apparent what Taekwon-Do is.

Just think about it. Gen. Choi's mission was to teach Taekwon-Do to the world. You cannot do that with an art that takes decades to master. It does not take decades to master the basics of Taekwon-Do. Even at the advanced ranks, maybe you try to perfect a double leg flying kick, so what. If you aren't going to use the techniques you are perfecting in an actual fight, then they are just techniques.

If your instructor is teaching you more than just the foundations found in Taekwon-Do, then good for you.

Ummm...

Falling and locking is one of the first things you learn from your instructor. Yes, they are similiar to hapkido, but they are techniques in TKD. When you get hit or taken down, it is imperative you know how to fall.

You are confusing mastering techniques with mastering THE technique. Mastering one is that you have perfect technique but don't know how to apply it. MASTERING it means you know how to apply it with perfect technique. If you don't know how to apply the technique into an actual fight, then you are far from mastering it.

 

[Dim Mak]

Hwarango-do, "Flowing Youth" was the name of the youth movement during the Korean Silla Dynasty (668-918AD ). They were "wandering knights" that helped unify the three Kingdoms of Korean(at that time) and ward off the invading Tang Chinese.

Around the 7th Century A.D., the Hwarango movement fell by the wayside as the Koreans began to emphasize move intellectual things, such as art, philosophy, etc.

The two oldest documents in Korea: The Samguk Yusa and Samguk Sagi, document the Hwarang-do as practicing a method of empty-handed self-defense in their training, called Subak - a foot-fighting art.

It is very unlikely, that any link to the original teachings of the Hwarang-do have been lost over the past 1400 years, and especially the Japanese Occupation of Korea (1910-1946) erased any connection with the original teachings.

Even Taekyon, a more-recent art in Korea, was mostly lost during the Japanese occupation.

Taesoo do was simply an organization organized in 1961 under the Korean Amateur Athletic Association. This was not an offshoot of the Hwarang-do group organizated by Dr. Lee. It was another name of Korean martial arts during the 1950's and 60's in the same manner as Tang Soo Do, etc.

R. McLain

 

[arnisador]

That's fascinating!

 

[Buffy]

I have 2 years of experience with Taekwondo and I currently started training in the art of Hwa Rang Do.

I thing it is the best ... not the best for self defense ... but the best for me.

The challenge is enormous! both physically and mentaly having to learn almost every technique posible

 

[arnisador]

Yes, Hwa Rang Do has a huge number of techniques.

Can you comment on its pronunciation? Is it something like "Fa Rang Do"? We've discussed this here before.

 

[Buffy]

I've heard 2 pronouces:
Ha Rang Do and
Va Rang Do

It is (like all korean martial arts) writing as it is said - for a given langauge - hmm.

Let me simplify:

Nunchaku in Korean is Ssang Juel Bong or Ssang-chol bong. How is that pronounced? In english (or american) a J is pronounces Dj (or close enough - I'm from Denmark, so my english is a bit ... ) in Danish it is pronounced more like an english y in York.

As you all know Korean is writing in Han Gul or Chinese for that matter (or even a mix of the two).

But to sum it all up - sometimes i sounds like Ha Rang Do and other times it more like Va Rang Do.

I'll mail the higherst ranked HRD in Europe and return with an answer

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Buffy

I'll mail the higherst ranked HRD in Europe and return with an answer

That'd be great, thanks.

 

[Angus]

What rank are you, Duffy?

 

[Buffy]

I've just begun - so it's White Belt (Mu Kub / 9. grad).

I have a test in the end of this month - hoping to graduate with flying colours

But since I have 2 years of Taekwondo (TKD) pratice my coach says that once I know the techniques I can take the next test.

The first two belts are stances, pouncing, kicking, philosofy, beginners meditation ... the basics AND you have to learn have to train - which I already know.

NB! The belt / rankings is not like Taekwondo / Karate and the likes.
In TKD you automatic have the white belt - then you train for white with a yellow strip .... the white belt is given to you when you start.
In HRD you have to pass the white belt test to continue - it's more like school - to go from 5th grad to 6th grad you have to pass one or more tests - if you don't pass, you have to take that year again (in HRD train more) before continueing to the next level.

 

[Buffy]

I have just received the following from Instructor Jorgensen:
In danish:
"Hej Thomas

"Ha" er tættest på, og lettest at sige for ikke-koreanere, men den helt
rigtige udtale er "Hwa"
Hvis du kikker på den nederste del af http://www.hwarangdo.dk/tegn.htm skriver
man det med de koreanske tegn for H + (O+A = oa) "blød" WA).
Det andet problem er så at "h" og "f" er den samme lyd for en koreaner, så man
kan nogle gange høre koreanere udtale det som "farangdo". Men da det
oprindeligt blev skrevet med kinesiske tegn er den "rigtige" udtale Hwarang Do
som vi skriver det. Der er ikke noget der skal være let på koreansk "

In english (my lousy translation though):
"Hey Thomas
"Ha" is the closest and easiest to pronounce for non-koreans, but the exactly pronouce is "Hwa"
If you look at the bottom part of http://www.hwarangdo.dk/tegn.htm you write the korean letter for H + (O+A = oa) "soft" WA).
Problem no. 2 is that "h" and "f" is the same sound for a korean. So you can hear a korean pronouce it as "farangdo". But since it originaly was writting in chinese the right way to pronouce it is Hwarang Do (as it is written). Korean - not easy "

 

[arnisador]

Thanks, I think that helps!

 

[Hwarang]

Ok, just doing a bit of cross-posting between the two Hwarang Do threads... this one on the Silla Hwarang organisation

Dim Mak:
"Around the 7th Century A.D., the Hwarango movement fell by the wayside as the Koreans began to emphasize move intellectual things, such as art, philosophy, etc."

You hear about the Hwarang much later than that, and the Hwarang were also famous for philosophy, learning, writing poetry etc.

"The two oldest documents in Korea: The Samguk Yusa and Samguk Sagi, document the Hwarang-do as practicing a method of empty-handed self-defense in their training, called Subak - a foot-fighting art."

No, there is no mention of Subak or any other unarmed MA in the Samguk Yusa at all, even though the Hwarang are mentioned often. Subak is mentioned in Sagi, but never in connection with the Hwarang. Actually there is NO mention of the Hwarang doing any unarmed combat anywhere, the ONLY connection is through Dr. Joo Bang Lee (Hwarang Do grandmaster).

"Taesoo do was simply an organization organized in 1961 under the Korean Amateur Athletic Association. This was not an offshoot of the Hwarang-do group organizated by Dr. Lee. It was another name of Korean martial arts during the 1950's and 60's in the same manner as Tang Soo Do, etc."

Same pronounciation and same spelling in western letters, but very different Chinese characters.
The Korean Taesoodo Association was formed in 1964 when Taekwondo was beeing united from the Kongsoodo, Tangsoodo etc associations, but already in 1965 the name was changed from Taesoodo to Taekwondo. The "Tae" character in this association was the same "Tae" as in Taekwondo (to stomp/trample).
The "Tae" character in the "Hwarangdo Taesoodo" means "great", the same character as in Taeguk Kwon/Taichi Chuan.

WaterCircleHarmony (Yu,Won,Hwa):
"There's a book out about TKD fitness i think and it introduces the Hwarang as blown out of proportion and nothing more than minstrels of the court. I'll get to work on that lead."

Hey - a book about TKD fitness... can't argue with that
This story started in the 30ies when a Japanese amateur scholar, who was in Korea on other business during the Japanese occupation of Korea, wrote a paper on the Hwarang organisation. It was already rejected by the Japanese themselves (Mishima Shoei, 1943) and it only quoted today because Donn F. Draeger quoted it in his book "Comprehensive Asian Fighting Styles". Draeger had many Japanese friends and pretty much the entire chapter on Korea is wrong.

If you're intersted in more about the Hwarang organisation I collected this a while back: http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang.htm

 

[arnisador]

The March 2003 issue of Black Belt magazine has an article on the dan bong (short stick) featuring Taejoon Lee, son of Joo Bang Lee.

 

[MartialArtist]

Hwarangdo is very old, and it's older than 2000 years.

If you study the history of Korea and its military, the hwarang was basically the code of the warrior. Almost like the Bushido Code, but more so in the aspect of combat. Technically, it's the way of the warrior from fighting to honor.

The ancient hwarang included archery and mounted archery, and the archery is still an important part of Korean culture to this date (sweeping Olympic medals more than once).

Modern? Hwarang do is based on the ancient hwarang, but how much so, I really can't say. But on aspects of fighting, fighting is fighting, and it will pretty much be the same (hand-to-hand) unless humans all of a sudden grow 4 tentacles.

 

[progressivetactics]

We had a poster from a different board a while back ago, who was a hwa rang instructor. He said the Tae Soo was an expansion of the Hwa Rang Art, that Joo Bang Lee had decided to put out there, to make HwaRang look that much more difficult. Sort of like a college program----you had to graduate high school before you could join. It was a marketing idea as well as a basics program. He wanted to concentrate on "higher level stuff" and didn't want to go through stances and blocks with every new beginner...So he created a simple tae soo program. It was more along the lines of a TKD program.

Hwa Rang warriors were fierce warriors of their day who were exactly like the bushido warriors except bushido warriors killed anyone/everyone for any reason. Hwa rang did not. They killed only for necessity.

All korean arts, like most other arts, claim very old (2000year) history. It is not the requirements on paper that are that old, but the feelling, attitudes, commitments, ideals, wardrobe, philosophies, etc of the country that give it the age. TSD, TKD, Tae Soo, Hapkido, all the korean arts claim 2000 years, some of that is because of the uniforms the koreans wear. The Black (or blue) trimmed do-bahk is similar to a popular outwear the people would wear. ALso, the Kuk Sool had a frilly, fringed, official "kings guard" outfit they wore, which lends itself to the uniform of today.