How people cope with blind spots

[Black Bear]

How people cope with their blind spots, aka “talking to idiots” aka “the worst of self-defense”

Does this conversation sound familiar?

SCSDI = so-called self-defense instructor
BI = beautiful ingénue, played by Natalie Portman

SCSDI – Now, the techniques I will be teaching you are for if you have no opportunity to escape. The best thing to do is always to always to try to get away. But there may be situations where you are not able to just leave. For instance, if you are attacked while loading groceries into your trunk, and your child is in the backseat. Or you’re with your frail or handicapped friend or relative. Or when you’re waiting for someone outside a public restroom and don’t want to leave them behind. Or you’re in an enclosed area and your escape routes are blocked off. Then you must fight in order to create an escape.

BI – Got it.

SCSDI – Now, it’s important to remember: if someone comes at you with a knife, then run away.

BI – But what if you don’t have a chance to run?

SCSDI – Then use the techniques I will show you today.

BI – Are you going to show us what to do if someone attacks us with a knife?

SCSDI – Like I said, if someone attacks you with a knife, then you should run.

BI – What if you can’t run?

SCSDI – If you cannot escape from an attacker, you must defend yourself with resolute determination! That’s what we’re here for, I shall teach you how!

BI – And if he has a knife?

SCSDI – I don’t follow. Didn’t we just go over that?

BI – *frustrated* Okay, what I mean is, what if someone attacks you with a knife, and there’s no way for me to just get away?

SCSDI – What’s in your wallet that’s worth your life?

BI – I never said he wanted my wallet. I said he’s attacking me with a knife and I can’t—

SCSDI – Are you trying to make me look bad?

BI - *throws up hands in frustration* Forget it! Keep my deposit, I’m going to Black Bear’s International House of Pancrase! Besides, Black Bear is stunningly attractive—and a fantastic lay too! Come on, Alizee Bilder and Haylie Ecker! I heard he might be into threesomes!

 

[theletch1]

BI - *throws up hands in frustration* Forget it! Keep my deposit, I’m going to Black Bear’s International House of Pancrase! Besides, Black Bear is stunningly attractive—and a fantastic lay too! Come on, Alizee Bilder and Haylie Ecker! I heard he might be into threesomes

And this would be another scenario when running away would be a good option.:rofl:

 

[Black Bear]

Naw, man. Sometimes you have to make a stand, even if outnumbered.

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by Black Bear

BI = beautiful ingénue, played by Natalie Portman

Mmmm, Natalie Portman, arghllllllll

 

[Black Bear]

Hey, this thread is supposed to be about blind spots in self-defense training!

 

[7starmantis]

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by 7starmantis

Ditto.

- Ceicei

 

[MA-Caver]

<Looks up from his book and wonders > Uhhhh?
Blind spots? Oh you mean when someone comes up behind you and you're busy doing something else? Well, uhh, err, I guess I'd use the force.

 

[Black Bear]

<Looks up from his book and wonders > Uhhhh?
Blind spots? Oh you mean when someone comes up behind you and you're busy doing something else? Well, uhh, err, I guess I'd use the force.

Okay, apparently the thought of a threesome with an angry laser monkey, Natalie Portman, and Alizee Bilder has thrown people off. What I mean by blind spots is this: The SCSDI in the story did not have good knowledge in the area of defensive knife tactics. The way that he addressed that subject matter in conversation showed this, and also showed how he was going through all kinds of convoluted logic to hide this fact from his conscious. He wants to see himself *** a good self-defense instructor. He's not. Because his unconscious mind is trying to protect this idealized self-concept from the threat from the beautiful ingenue, he ends up sounding ridiculous to everyone except himself.

The point of the story is to force us to ask the question, do we have blind spots in self-defense? Is this something we can consider honestly, without being defensive and clueless like the SCSDI was?

 

[Gary Crawford]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!HAHAHAHAH!!!! Oh man That's too funny!!! Ok,I'll be alright. Black Bear,That is a good subject.Let me make sure I understand your point.Always consider all realistic possibilities.Right?

 

[Black Bear]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!HAHAHAHAH!!!! Oh man That's too funny!!! Ok,I'll be alright. Black Bear,That is a good subject.Let me make sure I understand your point.Always consider all realistic possibilities.Right?

Yes, I would say that is one of the key points. The other point has to do with something called "cognitive dissonance". Basically this theory states that if a guy holds two contradictory beliefs, he will adjust his belief system in order to bring them back into line. But he'll do so not necessarily in the most reasonable way, but in the way that is EASIEST for him. Let's look at SCSDI's belief structure:

- I am a competent and capable self-defense instructor.
- I do not teach knife defense.

So in order for both these beliefs to be "true" in his mind, he has to believe this:

- I don't have to teach knife defense in order to be a competent and capable self-defense instructor.

So when the beautiful ingenue shows up and presents a threat to his belief system, he protects it by coming up with ideas like:

- Someone who's attacked with a knife can always resolve it by running or giving the guy their wallet.

which of course is silly. He's also slow at catching on to what people mean. He doesn't hear it because he doesn't want to hear it.

I guess this relates to the thread on humility. Normally, people will defend a perception they want to have, of themselves. Their "self-concept". If a person has a self-serving bias, if they cling to their beliefs about themselves in spite of new information, this will prevent them from learning new things. Instead of seeing challenges as a signal that they need to learn and grow, they will feel threatened by them and close themselves off. That's why we need humility. To be able to say, "You know, I know: I don't know. I need to find out."

For example, I am coming to realize that I need to do a lot more research into firearms. I live in an area with very few handguns, and not a whole lot of guns in the city in general. Out of about 20 homicides per year in this city, maybe two or so involve a firearm, and they're always the "gang" ones. But I know that we always get the same kinds of crime as they have in city X, just right around six years later. So I have to accept that we will probably soon be seeing more fatal shootings. I have to fill in this knowledge gap. I have to have more thorough information on firearms defense than I do know. So I'm scheduling a more advanced firearms safety course. I will have to go through my videos on firearm defense and drill them with people with something that'll give good feedback, like a redgun or something. If the next time someone asks me about guns I make some stupid remark like "what's in your wallet that's worth your life" (where in his question did he say that the guy wanted his wallet???) then I am being dishonest with myself.

 

[Ceicei]

It's good you acknowledge you needed more training in areas that you lack. Your thread has also pointed out the importance for each of us to be aware of our own blind spots, whether it is physical or cognitive.

It is hard at first to take your thread seriously the way you presented it. It wasn't until more posts from you on this subject, I finally understood what you were saying.

- Ceicei

 

[Gary Crawford]

As far as fireams defense,I suggest you look up Hock Hockhiem.I think is is one of the best versed person that I know of on the subject.I also suggest gang research,peticluarly drug/crack gang research.I unfortunatly had too much exposure to this.Before we moved here in 1995,we lived in Little Rock,Ar.Little Rock had about the same level of gang activity as other towns os simular population(300,000) which wasn't that bad,But Little Rock had another problem-denial.They ignored the problem until in the early 90's when the Kryps and Bloods of LA decided to move in,and all hell broke loose.Drive-by shootings were everyday.We had 13 and 14 yr old kids walking around with AK's.The city decided to hire a consulting group who counted 237 seperate gangs between LR and North Little Rock.In 1995 LR became #1 in the nation for aggravated assault,we were proud!I found the best defense for gang violence is to become familiar with who they are and what they are into,without them knowing.If this type of activity starts near where you live,MOVE out of shooting range!The types of violence we experienced was gang on gang violence,but these people are not good marksmen and stray bullets regularly find innocent victims.

 

[Tgace]

For example, I am coming to realize that I need to do a lot more research into firearms. I live in an area with very few handguns, and not a whole lot of guns in the city in general. Out of about 20 homicides per year in this city, maybe two or so involve a firearm, and they're always the "gang" ones. But I know that we always get the same kinds of crime as they have in city X, just right around six years later. So I have to accept that we will probably soon be seeing more fatal shootings. I have to fill in this knowledge gap. I have to have more thorough information on firearms defense than I do know.

I dont know how experienced w/firearms you are, or what type of info you are looking for, but heres a few basics...

1.handguns of any caliber are actually poor fight stoppers and more people survive being shot by them then die. I say this because some victims of shootings fold up and give up after being hit by a surviveable shot. Keep fighting (or running) regardless if youre hit or not.

2. If you have to fight, you better be close (jurys still out on if its better to gun-grab+disarm or deflect the weapon and hammer the bad guy). If you cant close-in real quick you are better off running.

3. If you have to run, run at an angle from the shooter. Running straight away makes you what is known as a "zero value target" and makes it easier to hit you (even then its tough... handguns are difficult to hit with at any significant range, even for experienced shooters), running at an angle makes him have to track you and thats tough.

4. Learn what will stop bullets and what wont....dont believe what you see on TV and the movies. Try to be constantly aware of where cover is available.

 

[Black Bear]

As far as fireams defense,I suggest you look up Hock Hockhiem.I think is is one of the best versed person that I know of on the subject.I also suggest gang research,peticluarly drug/crack gang research.I unfortunatly had too much exposure to this.Before we moved here in 1995,we lived in Little Rock,Ar.Little Rock had about the same level of gang activity as other towns os simular population(300,000) which wasn't that bad,But Little Rock had another problem-denial.They ignored the problem until in the early 90's when the Kryps and Bloods of LA decided to move in,and all hell broke loose.Drive-by shootings were everyday.We had 13 and 14 yr old kids walking around with AK's.The city decided to hire a consulting group who counted 237 seperate gangs between LR and North Little Rock.In 1995 LR became #1 in the nation for aggravated assault,we were proud!I found the best defense for gang violence is to become familiar with who they are and what they are into,without them knowing.If this type of activity starts near where you live,MOVE out of shooting range!The types of violence we experienced was gang on gang violence,but these people are not good marksmen and stray bullets regularly find innocent victims.

Some good ideas here for me to follow up. Hmm, I have Hock's streetfighter series 1-6. I should check if he covers gun stuff on it.

I have established some good ties with the police service here through something they call the Citizens' Police Academy. I did it at first for professional reasons (I realized I was terribly ignorant about crime and policing, having grown up in the 'burbs with "good folks") but I found it did put some perspective around my sd training. I had a couple classes with them on cocaine trafficking and gang suppression.

And I got some juicy stuff when I did research in a prison about a year ago.

Hey, that's a good idea for everyone who does sd. Exposing yourself to the street through volunteering with street folk, victim services unit, female offender parole reintegration, etc. can put some perspective on street violence as it takes place in your area, and flesh out the meaning of your training.

 

[Black Bear]

tgace, thanks for the input. Good info for me to digest. I do have some sense of what can and can't be done when you're assaulted with a firearm.

Common sense tells us to avoid that range which is optimal for the baddie, which is anywhere from outside of arms reach to, well, out of clear line of sight. I heard JJ Bittenbinder's well-known pronouncement that if you run from a guy with a gun, there is less than 2% chance he will fire and hit you. I also heard (word of mouth) of a USMC experiment that showed that running zigzag increases, rather than decreases, the likelihood that you'll be hit. But what you said about zero-value target, that's surely just as important.

Oh, and I like Kelly McCann's stuff for against guns. A lot of people teach similar things, but he seems to have a lot of the subtleties down.

 

[Tgace]

No prob...I wouldnt call myself an "expert" but I do have a bit of experience with firearms...so whatever i can help you with.


I havent heard about the "zig zag" study, but in civillian fields I would reccommend just flat out running at a 30-60 degree angle from the shooter. Unless hes hell bent on killing you and chases you, you should be out of effective (i.e. realistic range at which a trained shooter could hit you at) range pretty quick.

A "rule of thumb" in military movement is the 3-5 second rush. When you move from point of cover to point of cover youre supposed to be thinking to yourself "Im up....Im moving....They see me....Im down!" Perhaps of use if youre caught out in the middle of a "north hollywood shootout" type situation. God forbid.

If you do train to make a gun-grab, try to be familiar with basic functions of the weapon..i.e. grabbing the cylinder of a revolver will keep it from firing (just dont let go). Grabbing the slide of an auto, while not preventing discharge, will probably prevent it from firing again untill cleared.

If you frequent really "bad areas" look into commercially available bullet resistant materials. Theres everything from full-blown vests to waist packs with pull-out level IIA bibs you throw over your head, bullet proof briefcases and clipboards, etc. Expensive but out there if you think you are at risk.

Most of this is handgun related, rifles+shotguns are a different matter although many of the same principles apply.

 

[mandirigma]

"The point of the story is to force us to ask the question, do we have blind spots in self-defense?"
-Black Bear

This feels a bit to me like a "how do I empty my cup" thread.

This is a hard question: How do I get rid of my "cognitive blind spots." This is especially important if you're claiming to teach self-defense, when your students' lives may depend on you NOT having cognitive blind spots.

I suppose people might hunt down and throttle their cog. blind spots in a few ways:

1. Train creatively. E.g., letting yourself spar differently, or encouraging students to come up with creative scenarios, can shed light on our blind spots. Tell your students, "today we're going to find out what we are NOT good at." For me, the second I was beginning to think I was hot stuff, and subsequently got clobbered in the face, I began to appreciate objectivity and humility. Getting flattened (literally or figuratively) can shake loose the cobwebs of cognitive dissonance!

2. Clearly evaluate your goals. We've probably all heard the story of the young karateka who took up judo. His karate sensei admonished him that judo was weakening his karate. His judo sensei told him his karate would preclude him from mastering judo. What to do? As a self-defense instructor, we must specify our goals. Choose the goal of mastering tactical problem solving! Maybe you never master one specific art, but in the above example a little judo and a little karate might be the recipe needed to survive a complicated scenario that neither art alone could solve.

3. Train your weaknesses. Hopefully training creatively and having clear goals will shed light on what we're not good at. Once identified, we must practice what we don't like. We spend far too much time in ego masturbation, happily playing at what we are already good at. For example, in gun circles, we spend far too little time in one-handed shooting drills, even though this has been proven to be a pretty damn critical skill in the real world. Rare is the instructor who says to his class, "I'm not good at X, so we're going to work on it."

Just my 6 cents.
Fantastic script with the BI above, btw!

:asian:

 

[Tgace]

Since this is one of my favorite topics, I figured Id put together a little primer on handgun operation basics for the martial artist. It’s very basic and is based on the assumption of a gun grab. Many instructors may teach to deflect the weapon and attack the BG. Take it for what its worth.



HANDGUNS

Handguns, by and large (there are some other designs), come in 2 different flavors, revolvers and Automatics. Almost everybody knows the difference between the two so I wont go into too much detail regarding their parts and basic differences.



REVOLVERS: The “wheel gun”. The old cowboy guns were “single action”, which means that the hammer had to be cocked by hand and pulling the trigger dropped the hammer on the round. Almost all modern revolvers are “double action”. This means that when you pull the trigger the hammer starts moving back, the cylinder turns bringing a new round under the hammer, and the hammer falls on that round, all in one stroke. Many revolvers have a “half **** safety” this means that if you pull the hammer back with your thumb to the first “click”, the hammer cant be moved by the trigger. The shooter has to **** the hammer the rest of the way manually and then pull the trigger. If the shooter desires less “travel” in the trigger he can **** the hammer all the way back, enabling firing with less trigger movement and more accuracy.



Advantage: Hardly ever jams or malfunctions. Point and shoot.

Disadvantage: Ammo capacity. Frequent re-loading.

What this means to the martial artist: Stop the cylinder from revolving and the weapon won’t fire. If the hammer is back or moving back, get a finger or web of your thumb between the hammer and the round and the weapon wont fire. Half **** it (good luck in a fight but I suppose its possible) and the BG has to **** it by hand to get it to fire. Note: Some revolvers have shielded or internal hammers that you cant block. (designed for concealment, less snagging and no chance of anything blocking the hammer)



AUTOMATICS: A removable magazine holds bullets under spring tension and feeds them into the weapon. When fired, recoil forces the slide of the weapon back, ejecting the empty case. Springs force the slide closed, stripping the next round off the magazine.



Trigger actions vary; there’s “double/single” where the first round is fired like a revolver. The subsequent rounds are “single action”, where pulling the trigger just drops an already cocked hammer. This is because the slide moving back automatically cocks the weapon. Some autos are “double action only”. Each round fired is similar to a revolver (supposedly designed as a safety feature to present accidental discharge). Some autos, like the classic 1911 .45cal, are “single action only”. The weapon is carried in various ways but it must have the hammer cocked for the first shot. Pulling the trigger with the hammer down wont work. All these types of autos have safety levers that prevent moving the hammer when engaged. Many have “de-**** levers” that safely drop a cocked hammer without firing so the next shot will be double action again. Some autos like the Glock, have a proprietary firing system that isn’t single or double action (Glock calls it a “safe action”) pulling the trigger moves levers that release a spring loaded firing system. Glock handguns come with no safety levers. They are point and shoot. They do have a series of features that assure the weapon will only fire by pulling the trigger. You can drop it out of a plane and it wont go off accidentally.



Advantage: Ammo capacity. Ease of reloading. Can fire faster and more accurately with less training than a revolver. (yes a trained wheel gun man can match an auto, but it takes more practice)

Disadvantages: Prone to malfunction with improper shooting technique or maintenance. Untrained shooters may fumble with or forget to disengage safety levers.

What this means to the martial artist: Grab the slide before the weapons fired and it will fire; however it will most likely result in a jammed weapon. Like a revolver, block an exposed hammer (if it has one) and it wont fire. Slide the slide portion of the weapon back far enough (out of battery) and it wont fire. Hit the magazine release button and he will only have the one shot in the gun.

****= I guess this board has auto-filters for commonly used vulgarities. The **** means setting the hammer into position, also slang for a mans genitalia. Odd. it will let me spell cocked, but not ****. How would I describe a male rooster???:idunno:

 

[loki09789]

Dealing with blind spots has more to do with personal character than training. If you can be honest with your training and preparation, your experience level, your personality, and your goals/values then dealing with blind spots gets easier.

Much like was presented earlier, in the service, during inspections or training, I was taught that if I don't know the answer to a question, instead of making excuses or fabrications, just say "Sir, I don't know the correct answer at this time, but I will strive to find it." or something along those lines.

Sometimes, the 'blind spot' is not a lack of skill in that area, but a lack of experimentation/application of existing skills for a situation/attack that you didn't envision or come up with. That is one of the reasons that, and TGace has already stated this on the MA page, FMA with it's concept approach really is a good martial base to launch into tactical training because it isn't about Tab A into Slot B type of training as much taking a base motion and learning to apply it to as many scenarios as possible. Once the concept is understood at this level, it could be expanded to the larger scope of situation/environment and planning. Good Kenpo training as well will produce "thinking/creative" fighters.

Paul M.