How much does this REALLY matter?

[Tgace]

As an offshoot of my thread that got itself locked....

How much does all the pissing, moaning and politics on the internet really impact Modern Arnis? Some people have implied that the "internet games" are "bringing the art down". Just how big of an impact on "The Art" do you think the stuff that pops up here has?

IMO. The opinions and posts of a no account, low rank unknown (like myself) really have no or low impact. Beyond the reactions and responses of the "major players" that may or may not respond to them. So some guy named Tgace on Martial Talk said "X" about "Y". So what? I could just as easily go to the ninjutsu forums and post there. Will I (a non practicioner) then be "bringing down" ninjutsu? You know what they say about opinions......

Now the "major players" here...IMO their words and actions can have an impact. People are probably going to pay attention to what they get themselves into. The issue then becomes how many people looking for an art to practice have decided to take or not take an art (or study under an instructor) based on political threads on the internet? Does the "average guy on the street", looking for a school, talk to his buddies about the latest flame war on the net? Are we really affecting or changing anything by posting here, or are we just inflating our egos and self-importance by thinking we are?

 

[MJS]

IMO, I think that everyone, both the minor and major players ultimately have an effect on the art. I think that no matter what the art is, once the head person passes on, without leaving a designated person in charge, you will always find the fighting. Even if someone was left in charge there still may be fighting, but it seems to me that recently there has been an increase in the Modern Arnis world.

People in the Kenpo world are doing the same thing, so its not isolated to Arnis. IMO, if you are happy with what you're doing, have no interest in leaving your current org., etc., then why should or would it be a concern to what someone in another org. is doing? Keep training hard, and continue to spread the art in a positive way.

Mike

 

[Flatlander]

I think that the negative things that people express on the internet are reflections of the type of people they are. I think the positive things that people share are contributions, insofar as they are a standing piece of knowledge that anyone who chooses may access and partake of.

I think that for the common folk with enough intiative to do their own due diligence when researching the art they study or perhaps want to study, seeing political issues hammered out on a public website every day can be disturbing and off putting. In fact, it can really take away one's initiative to excel and become a leader in their own right. Because, really, why would I do that to myself?

 

[shesulsa]

I'm sorry to say that there is plenty of other training similar to Arnis that is available without the political BS and honestly, everybody knows about the political BS. Whether it's liked or not, there are many many people who just won't go there with the politics and the ones who just want to jump in to learn the art usually only want to fight or learn enough to defend themselves. There are very few who want to foster it and help it grow.

I understand this predicament quite well. And I wish y'all the very best of luck.

 

[Andrew Green]

If the mud slinging happens online, I'd make a reasonable leap to it goes on offline as well.

And it is never good for any art, except for people with big ego's that need to be protected by mud slinging.

But to say it is a modern arnis problem is simply not true, it is a problem in most styles. The internet however gives people a bigger voice to sling it with.

Peoples actions online definately can carry over to the real world, mud slung can carry over to the real world.

In a way it keeps people honest, if someone claims to have 3 9th dans, a 10th dan and be a "soke", they will get that kicked in there face online in view of everyone that cares too look.

But on the other hand a good deal of it is personal differences in views on training that neither side is being missleading or lieing, they just do things differently. From an outside perspective both come off looking bad.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

MA has it's problems. So does every art. Kenpo, JKD, TKD, etc. All have their little ugly warts. The problem here is, it's rather blatent.

I've had many people ask me why we put up with it.
Because. Because, this area is for Modern Arnis, and damn it, if the MA people want to play games, belittle, demean, insult, slight, shoot, and slam each other, then that's what they get to do. I think it shows the true character of those involved. The real subtle shots most folks miss, but there have been some rather blatent ones, and they bother me.

I look at Kenpo, which has just as many egos, politics, etc, and what do I see?
Seminar news, technique breakdowns and walk throughs, photos, videos, useful advice.

I look at MA and what do I see? Very little besides ads and surveys.

How about some meat folks?

I put up 3 threads about the 1st 3 forms. I got -1- reply.
Thanks.

I put out a call for content.
I got nada.

I've asked repeatedly, seen some folks really try to build us some serious content.
All seemingly wasted effort.

I get asked regularly why there is so little content here. I honestly don't know.
I know we have a number of long term serious practitioners. One would think they would know, and be able to share.
But, that's not what happens.

I'm wondering, maybe it's time for MT to drop Modern Arnis. Lock the forum, archive the mess and move on.

What does all this crap do? It drives people away, it gives the wrong picture of the art. An ugly picture.

I started training in MA because I found it to be an easily learned, yet challenging to perfect art. Something infinately flexible. This forum was intended to help other seekers see the wonder I did.

It sure would be nice if that was possible. But, 4 years later, I'm getting jaded. And I haven't seen anything the last few months to unjade me.

Can anyone prove I'm wrong? Can anyone drop the games, shots, slings, and other BS and maybe, just maybe, get into some serious discussions on technique? Without pissing and moaning about "whos right", and simply rejoice in the differences and variations?

Because, if all I see of an art is arguements, and ads, why would I want to waste my time with it? You want to argue, theres places out there that live for the crap, go there. If you want to discuss the meat of the art, stay here. Maybe we just need to go extreme-heavy on moderation, and filter out -ALL- noise?

 

[arnisador]

I don't think the Internet noise has much effect on the art. It seems like a big deal to the handful of Modern Arnis practitioners here, but most people don't even know about it. Sure, some do, but by and large people here about the real conflicts--that there really was a split among the MOTTs, etc. That's not Internet news.

Does it reflect a more general situation? Sure. There's a lot of jockeying for position among the various orgs. out there. At least 3 orgs. claim to be the true heirs of the Prof.--that's at least 2 too many, and maybe 3.

As to shutting down this subforum--I have no feelings on this. The much larger arts of Judo and TKD have nearly dead fora here. The Karate forum gets little action. This site has attracted the people that it has attracted. They're talking about what they want to talk about. Like it or not, politics is the big issue in Modern Arnis right now. Shutting that out would be misleading--but I agree, would lead to a more useful, welcoming, and interesting forum to read.

 

[Tgace]

The thing is...Ive been on various Martial Arts internet forums over the years and Ive seen one thing to be true...The "meat" threats/topics rarely survive for long. IMO, martial arts is primarily a "physical medium". You are only going to get so much mileage over descriptions of physical movement. 9 times out of 10 I give up on trying to visualize some other persons description of how to perform "technique X". Politics, history, personal stories or "hot topics" are going to get the traffic. For all the "complaining" about the types of topics mentioned, look at the traffic.

What gets better ratings PBS documentaries or soap operas? Unfortunately I think its human nature in play here.....

 

[Bob Hubbard]

It is a physical medium. However, you can express it in a written and visual format. If not, we wouldn't have the multi-million dollar industries of books, tapes and disks out there.

Also, considering the low cost of digital cameras, it shouldn't be too hard for someone to take a few pics or a short clip, post it and say "this is what I mean".

Also, maybe the meat threads would work if people could keep their minds more open, rather than being so quick to hammer someone else for being different or taking a different approach. The human body only moves in so many different ways. I highly doubt that any art is unique, just a different combinations of movement that worked for it's creator.

As to the events, it's great to know whats going on. I think it would be better to know why we should care. So what if so-n-so going to teach 'armbars'. What makes them worth seeing? Matter of fact, whats an 'armbar'? Where else will they be teaching, and what will they be covering?

There is a ton of positive stuff that could be discussed. Instead, 66+% of threads are little more than chatter, blather, and adverts.

I for one would much prefer to learn something from reading things, rather than feeling like a babysitter, and sadly, the later feeling is more common. I would prefer it to change, but short of writing my own MA book, producing my own line of videos, and maybe even a clothing line, I can't do it.

It's simple. If you want to deal in the soap opera level garbage, MT is not the place for you. Theres at least 1 forum out there that thrives on hollow empty pap. We don't want to be it.

A few cases in point:
- The "What have you done" thread, could have been taken as a "What have you been up to lately" type thing, but instead was seen by some as a "1 upmanship content.".
- The Striking patterns thread turned into an argument about purity in the art, rather than a professional exploration of the angles, the variants, and what they mean.
etc.

There is plenty to talk about. Unless your point Tom, is that the Modern Arnis community lack the maturity and professionalism to talk about it, prefering instead to sling mud and such?

There are many in the MA community who I would love to hear from. They however avoid forums because of the mud, the politics, the crap. Imagine, what information we could see, if they felt welcome here?

 

[Tgace]

Does anybody "have to" read whats posted? Or respond to it? Isnt that what the ignore feature is all about?

 

[Guro Harold]

In the computer field we understand the concept of "GIGO", which is "garbage in, garbage out!"

It grew to a paradigm of "GDGPI", which means, "garbage doesn't get put in" in the first place.

Hopefully by leaning to the second case, the MA forum can be more about content than controversy.

 

[Tgace]

Dare I make the analogy?

 

[Guro Harold]

Dare I make the analogy?

Classic picture of "rubbernecking"?

 

[Tgace]

IMHO

If I get on this forum and say "Im against abortion and will do whatever I can to overturn Roe v Wade" I will get some people to debate me but in the long run most of you will say "eh..so what?". If however it was discovered that the President of the US was posting here and said the same stuff then what would be the difference?

A large one... and thats why I think that the actions of the "leaders" here hold more weight.

 

[Guro Harold]

Let's review the main splash page, it shows the mission statement of MT:

"Welcome to MartialTalk.com, one of the premier internet destinations for the martial artist. MartialTalk is dedicated to the friendly discussion of the martial arts, and the promotion, preservation and support of both the arts and the artists that study them."

 

[Guro Harold]

Let's review the main splash page, it shows the mission statement of MT:

"Welcome to MartialTalk.com, one of the premier internet destinations for the martial artist. MartialTalk is dedicated to the friendly discussion of the martial arts, and the promotion, preservation and support of both the arts and the artists that study them."

So this is pretty much has been my mission as a member and as staff.

 

[Guro Harold]

I can understand and respect the need to communicate concerns to people at the top but to me direct letters and communicades to those individuals have more impact.

 

[Tgace]

Ideal and reality oftentimes run in opposite directions....unfortunately.

 

[Guro Harold]

Ideal and reality oftentimes run in opposite directions....unfortunately.

That's so true, but actually, this discussion has caused me to understand more of where you are coming from.

Thanks,

Harold

 

[Tgace]

Because so many people here know who I am and what I do for a living, I do not have the luxury of posting some things that would be in conflict with my occupation. You can be sure that if I did that it would leak back into "real life".

The more prominent you are the more carefully you have to post. Its not just here either. If I had a blog ID'ing myself and my employer and was posting some controversial stuff on it that is going to impact on me as well.

If you are going to ID yourself on the internet and post your mind, beware. The politics here are an example.