How many students in your class?

[spidersam]

What’s a good teacher to student ratio in your martial arts class? I feel like 15 is a lot, but I’ve seen videos with a hundred + students. How many on average are in your class on a weeknight?

 

[JR 137]

Depends on the night, and as stupid as it sounds, the season.

We’re a pretty small club. Weeknights we’ll average 6-10. Saturday morning is typically 10-12. While it’s not the norm, it’s not so unheard of to have 2 or 3 people in a class. Especially during the summer.

Kids’ classes have about double the adult classes.

I like the smaller class size. There’s far more focus on individuals and it’s easier to tailor the class to who’s there. But with the right teacher, bigger classes can be just as effective. I took a class under our founder. There were about 30 students there, from white belt all the way to 6th dan. Nakamura didn’t miss a beat. Everyone got the attention they deserved, and he differentiated (teacher word there) instruction appropriately. The higher ranks didn’t do everything to the top of their rank curriculum, but nobody else did either, except maybe the white belts. That was a general/all ranks adults class, so that’s expected. Nakamura has rank specific classes as well.

I’ve been in classes where there were a couple dozen students and more, and I’ve been in classes alone or with a few students. If the teacher knows what he’s doing, there’s no real issue. If he doesn’t know what he’s doing, it doesn’t matter how many people are or aren’t there.

Edit: some teachers are great wya really small group and horrible with large groups. Others are great wya large group and horrible with a small group. Good teachers are good with both. If you’re teaching a class with 3 people the same exact way as you’d teach 300 people (and the other way around), you’re probably not very good. It takes a bit of experience with different groups and sized groups to be able to determine what really works for you and what doesn’t when you’ve got different group abilities and sizes.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

We have a lot of classes on the schedule, which may be why we have so much variation in how many students show up for any given class. I’d say the average is 4-10 students per class but it can run as low as 1-2 and as high as 15-20.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I've had classes with 1-2 students, and I've had classes with 30. I think smaller classes allow more intensive training, obviously. I think the huge classes are fine for conditioning, but there's no way a single instructor can make corrections in a group that size.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My assumption with those hundred plus classes has always been that there are multiple instructors(or senior students)...that must be the case. I can't see how it would be effective otherwise. Even with 20 students, I think you need a couple people who know the material helping the newer students.

 

[Christopher Adamchek]

Adult classes at our school: very small/nonexistant
Kids classes at our karate school: Average about 5-10 (not bad, ive taught kids classes with up to 20 - its tough)
Private adult classes at my house: 1-2
Self-defense classes i teach at a local university: vast range of about 1-22 on any given classes (depends on their academic classes and tests. Its nice to give personalized attention to a student as well as a large group for certain drills and camaraderie encouragement)
Self-defense seminars: average about 15

 

[dvcochran]

What’s a good teacher to student ratio in your martial arts class? I feel like 15 is a lot, but I’ve seen videos with a hundred + students. How many on average are in your class on a weeknight?

We vary by the class age range and time of year. Kids/first class averages 15 to as high as 40. The latter is tough. Adult/second class is usually 10-25 but we allow family groups so it can actually be tougher to cover everyone well even with the smaller size. We usually break up into small groups for specific elements when we can.
Larger size classes are easier if everyone is at or near the same rank. Corrections can be made globally and everyone should get them. The big exception is at the lower ranks where verbal correction doesn't work very well.

 

[Danny T]

Our classes average 15-20. There are times we have 5-6 and times we have closer to 30.
In the beginner classes we always have multiple instructors or higher level students to help out.
In the intermediate classes there are usually higher level students and we have students rotate to new partners every 3 the 5 minutes. In the higher level classes... well there are all higher level students helping each other out.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What’s a good teacher to student ratio in your martial arts class? I feel like 15 is a lot, but I’ve seen videos with a hundred + students. How many on average are in your class on a weeknight?

A good ratio really depends on a lot of factors. I'll start by listing a few:

• The teacher's experience
• The students' level (beginners need more watching, advanced folks can help watch)
• The approach to the material (if folks are just rolling or light/technical sparring, most don't need as much watching)
• New or review (new usually needs more instructor intervention)
• How unified is the activity (a bunch of people simultaneously doing kata is fine with one instructor, not so much with a bunch of people throwing each other)
• Intensity (this can go a lot of different ways)

For me, with my experience and my usual approach, 4 (2 pairs) is too few (I tend to meddle too much) and 30 (15 pairs) would be too many without an assistant - I won't have time to get to each pair to work on things. I tend to really like groups of about 15. With some reasonably senior participants, I'm totally comfortable as the only instructor in a room of up to 20.

Those numbers can all go up if I put folks on a more regimented drill - everyone doing basically the same thing. This allows me to correct and adjust the class as a whole on some things. It also makes it easier to spot something that's off, since I'm looking for the same cues in each group. The more different the assignments, the more the numbers go down.

 

[ShortBridge]

8

 

[AyeshaT]

Interesting thread. My child has been participating in two sports in parallel since the age of 5/6 at a varying number of days per week each. And there is a massive contrast in instructor / coach to pupil ratio in each case. In Taekwondo not only are the pupils ranging from 2nd Dan black belt down to white belt in the same class but their is typically numbers in the region of 60 to 80 in the dojang.
In our child’s other sport of swimming, instructors / coaches typically number 3 per 1.5 hour session, each taking anything between 5 and 12 pupils each coach. The pupils are separated into their lanes according to ability And coaching progresses accordingly I.e. at the pace governed by the levels in each group. In the latter case when instruction is given at each stage then full eye contact between coach and pupil is achieved and subsequent observation, support and feedback is administered easily and all round.
As opposed to the former case where numbers and respective levels preclude the one overarching instructor covering every pupils needs comprehensively, and where instruction is delivered at the same pace regardless of level / ability. Under such circumstances not all pupils are fully engaged with their instructor.
As a parent the observation is that by comparison the swimming coaches seem to be able to deliver more effectively for every swimmer In the same amount of allotted time per week.

 

[HighKick]

Interesting thread. My child has been participating in two sports in parallel since the age of 5/6 at a varying number of days per week each. And there is a massive contrast in instructor / coach to pupil ratio in each case. In Taekwondo not only are the pupils ranging from 2nd Dan black belt down to white belt in the same class but their is typically numbers in the region of 60 to 80 in the dojang.
In our child’s other sport of swimming, instructors / coaches typically number 3 per 1.5 hour session, each taking anything between 5 and 12 pupils each coach. The pupils are separated into their lanes according to ability And coaching progresses accordingly I.e. at the pace governed by the levels in each group. In the latter case when instruction is given at each stage then full eye contact between coach and pupil is achieved and subsequent observation, support and feedback is administered easily and all round.
As opposed to the former case where numbers and respective levels preclude the one overarching instructor covering every pupils needs comprehensively, and where instruction is delivered at the same pace regardless of level / ability. Under such circumstances not all pupils are fully engaged with their instructor.
As a parent the observation is that by comparison the swimming coaches seem to be able to deliver more effectively for every swimmer In the same amount of allotted time per week.

There is a Lot of transference when people of varying levels train together in any MA's. It is effective and encouraging to see a person with exceptional skills training right beside you. Of course age and ability are always considered. I would imagine much the same in swimming, but the environment would have to be considered with greater weighting given the fact someone with limited skills could drown if not properly attended. It makes sense to have a lower student/instructor ratio in swimming.

I have not seen your TKD class, but I hope it is structured such that a Dan level student would stop and help correct a color belt if needed.

 

[AyeshaT]

There is a Lot of transference when people of varying levels train together in any MA's. It is effective and encouraging to see a person with exceptional skills training right beside you. Of course age and ability are always considered. I would imagine much the same in swimming, but the environment would have to be considered with greater weighting given the fact someone with limited skills could drown if not properly attended. It makes sense to have a lower student/instructor ratio in swimming.

I have not seen your TKD class, but I hope it is structured such that a Dan level student would stop and help correct a color belt if needed.

“I have not seen your TKD class, but I hope it is structured such that a Dan level student would stop and help correct a color belt if needed.”


Depends a lot on the activity. If it is patterns then often all grades are executing their patterns for their grades simultaneously. When they all are doing 17 basic moves then they are all tied up doing the same. Occasionally our kid will be called upon to help with the lower grade pupils but the difficulty I referred to was in sparring techniques where everyone is paired up and executing an exercise but in their own time. That is where a more appropriate instructor to pupil ratio would be beneficial.

With swimming, at a more athletic level, then non swimmers and starters are filtered out at a point of initial assessment.And cannot join the club until they are proficient enough. New starters and beginners are taught elsewhere, from first strokes and survival in water.

In an ideal world blackbelts might have at least one lesson a week to themselves.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Our classes run between 6-30 students with 1-5 teachers/coaches. That maintains close to a 1:5 teacher/coach: student ratio.

 

[Buka]

My favorite number of students to have in a class, if I’m teaching, is one.

My favorite number of students to have in a class, if I’m a student, is one. Me.

But I do love big classes of motivated students that want to go nuts with martial enthusiasm. That’s like Christmas, right there.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm with Buka. 1:1 is the best, but not really practical most of the time. Our classes run up to 30. We pretty much always have 1 person leading the class and 1-3 wandering through the group working on details.

 

[Fungus]

KATA kihon classes are usually I think 25-35, kumite classes are often 10-25, but it's just because not everyone choose to come every fighting class. Before gradings we are not many in fightig class, as many don't want to risk an fat bruises or injuries a few days be fore grading.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My favorite number of students to have in a class, if I’m teaching, is one.

My favorite number of students to have in a class, if I’m a student, is one. Me.

But I do love big classes of motivated students that want to go nuts with martial enthusiasm. That’s like Christmas, right there.

I always preferred classes of 6-10. Working 1-1 meant I couldn't step back and look at grappling techniques, and couldn't stop them at the right moment to show them where that foot was in the wrong place, since I was busy falling down. With a group, I was able to observe and give input, and students had a variety of folks to work with, so I could create pairs that were more effective for specific exercises (to emphasize principles, or just to avoid extremes, as needed).

I was a better instructor with larger groups. I tend to over-instruct, and having at least 10 students (5+ pairs) kept me from interfering with the grind that students needed to work some stuff out on their own.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

My preference is 5 students per instructor

 

[Bill Mattocks]

What’s a good teacher to student ratio in your martial arts class? I feel like 15 is a lot, but I’ve seen videos with a hundred + students. How many on average are in your class on a weeknight?

About half.