Optimum class size

[JadeDragon3]

IMO the best size class is anywhere from 8 in a class to maybe 10 or 12. This should be a small enough class that each student would get the attention they deserve. You have to remember that if a school has alot of students but keep the classes small then that means the instructor has to teach more classes per week. You have to keep it so that both student and teacher are happy.

 

[Steel Tiger]

my 6 pm class is muid belts ages 7-14 we can have up to 25 with four adult instructor and 3 junior instructors.

7 pm is advance and fight team we will have in a good night 15-20 and we have between 5-8 BB and 3-5 junior BB so we are covered at all times.

Adult only classes we are lucky to have 3-8 depended on what night and then we have more BB than students at this time.

Now remember we do TKD so we can do this plus we have over 4500 sqyare feet of workout space, so you have to put that in the mix.

For an art that is often characterised by big class numbers these are really good I think. I have highlighted some important things Terry pointed out. Even though there are big numbers in the 6 and 7 classes they are offset by the number of instructors and assisitants. The numbers for the adult only class are very nice indeed, even if the proportion of students is low.

I'm just curious what other people think; if all of my students show up then there are 11 or 12, with me and my assistant, who is an I Dan. And too, all of my students who are at least green belts help with the lower ranks.

I put this in General MA Talk rather than a particular style because I'm curious how the type of art affects optimum class size.

It has been quite well demonstrated that we, Humans that is, can only effectively interact with about 12-15 people at a time. And by interact I mean converse with. To actually teach the numbers should be about half that, say 6-8. Which, looking at Kacey's numbers is what is going on.

Thats why I feel sorry for school teachers who have to try to teach classes of 20-30 students and then catch a whole lot of flack when some students aren't doing as well as others.

My own classes, which are essentially private groups, have never been more than 6. I would be willing to go as high as 10-12 if I found enough people to show some interest.

 

[Perpetual White Belt]

I know personally I can do an teen/adult class with up to 16 people. I break my kids classes into 3 age groups. Ages 4-6 I can teach up to 8 by myself, and then 7-9 and 9-13 age groups classes could be in the 10-12 student range. I like even numbers as well, so I can do partner drills.

 

[IcemanSK]

When it comes to teaching defense against grabs, joint locks, etc. to kids, I tend to want a smaller class size. When they're padded up & sparring, I can survey a whole room & be comfortable that I can jump in before someone gets seriously injured. However, when I'm showing kids a defense that entail small wrist bones & eager kids, I want a small group of about 4.

With teens & or adults, a group of 10 is good.

 

[Danny T]

Optimum numbers depends on which art is being taught, what age group, and at what skill level is the group.
We provide instruction and training in several different training systems so the number is different with the different systems.

In our Youth program we run with a 6-1 student to instructor ratio with each instructor having an assistant. We don’t have a very large youth enrollment so we don’t run into many concerns about having enough people to work the youth classes. We usually have a few higher level 18 year olds and older in doing their cardio or strength training who are more than willing to help if the numbers are high for those classes.

Our adult programs

Wing Chun:
15-20 with an instructor or associate instructor with an apprentice.
This class usually has 3-5 BB’s attending who can help out when needed

Advanced Wing Chun – lots of weapon work and multiple opponents work
12-15 with an instructor or associate instructor.
Everyone in this class is an apprentice or higher level instructor or someone we feel is skilled enough to be in this class. Everyone helps each other out.

Muay Thai:
Level I - 20-25 with an instructor and 2 assistants
Level II and up 20-25 with an instructor and 2 assistants
Sparring classes: two instructors and 2 assistants

Filipino Martial Arts – Stick, Sword, Knife, & Empty hand
12-18 with an instructor and assistant (usually have 3-5 higher level certified trainers, people who have been certified to instruct and sign off on specific blocks of material and skills. For example the Abcedario or the 5 attack subsystem,…)
Sparring - two instructors and assistants

Grappling – Judo, BJJ, Shooto:
15-20 with an instructor and an assistant

MMA:
5-10 with an instructor

Tai Chi:
8-12 with an instructor

Fitness Kickboxing:
15-20 with an instructor and usually have 1 or 2 assistants

Fight Conditioning - this is a 90 minute strength, tempering and flexibility program designed to get one’s body ready for a fight and is above and beyond their regular training program.
6-8 with a trainer

We have two 900 sq foot training areas for classes, one is matted, a bag room with speed, hook and upper-cut, double-end, and heavy bags, a strength and cardio training room and a smaller 18 x 18 foot room for privates.

Danny

 

[gblnking]

I know personally I can do an teen/adult class with up to 16 people. I break my kids classes into 3 age groups. Ages 4-6 I can teach up to 8 by myself, and then 7-9 and 9-13 age groups classes could be in the 10-12 student range. I like even numbers as well, so I can do partner drills.

Just a quick off topic question. What type of training do you teach for the 4-6 year olds?

 

[Dr John M La Tourrette]

What do you consider to be the optimum number of students in a class? What about the instructor/student ratio? How does the art(s) you practice affect your opinion? How does age of the students affect your opinion? Is there a minimum square footage per student? What about the skill/experience of the instructor - how does that affect the optimum class size? How many are too many? Too few (not including privates here - just regular classes)?

You want a book?

You left out specific questions on IQ...motivation...teacher's experience...the psychological profiles of the trainer and of the students...their primary learning style of the VAKOG...their secondary learning style, etc.

In fact, your question is a great list of what an instructor needs to know to be able to teach effectively.

Thank you!

Now, who's going to write that book and produce the DVD's that show and tell what to do?

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

 

[Kacey]

You left out specific questions on IQ...motivation...teacher's experience...the psychological profiles of the trainer and of the students...their primary learning style of the VAKOG...their secondary learning style, etc.

Actually, I left all of that out deliberately, to avoid predetermining the answer. The way people answered, and the rationale they gave, told me much of their understand of the above, and how much importance - if any - that they place upon it. Open-ended questions without excessive guidelines tend, at least in my experience, to widen the range of responses.

Certainly, those things are important - but putting all of that in one question seemed to be loading the deck.

So... how would you answer the original question, with or without your additions?

 

[theletch1]

I like anything up to twelve students. I prefer that number to run the gamut of ranks so that I can break the students up "highs" with "lows". It gives the newer students someone a little more experienced to help them if I'm tied up with others and it allows the senior students a chance to get their feet wet teaching. They aren't having to teach a new technique from scratch as I'll already have demonstrated it but they will/should be able to give minor corrections as needed.

I'll not be trying my hand at writing any books any time soon. Each instructor has his or her own style of teaching. It is inherent upon the instructor to figure out how to use his teaching style to best get through to the student in a way that they can learn. Sometimes that means having another instructor teach the same material. For me it often times means answering questions on the same technique from several students. This will often give me the insight into the way the student is thinking that will make a part of the technique click for me a little better and allow me to rephrase or re-demonstrate the technique in a fashion tailor made for that student.

 

[Dr John M La Tourrette]

Actually, I left all of that out deliberately, to avoid predetermining the answer. The way people answered, and the rationale they gave, told me much of their understand of the above, and how much importance - if any - that they place upon it. Open-ended questions without excessive guidelines tend, at least in my experience, to widen the range of responses.

Certainly, those things are important - but putting all of that in one question seemed to be loading the deck.

So... how would you answer the original question, with or without your additions?

Simple.

When I did answer that question (with all of it's presuppositions for real, back in the 80's), I put them on teacher's training videos (19 of them, each 2 hrs long), and I made it mandatory for all instructors to attend those classes or I'd fire them and hire other students in their place to do the training.

Each video was on a specific topic, i.e, how to teach a private lesson to a child 4-6 years old. How to teach an adult with previous training. How to teach a beginning sparring. How to...blab, blab, blab.

We did much role playing, and we gave a test over each area before allowing them to teach.

Like I said, and as I've noticed reading some of the well thought out answers here, it's a very BROAD topic with lots and lots of possibilities.

And knowing that, I'd chunk the topic down to bite sized parts (as many here already have) and take them one bite at a time, chew well, then take another bite.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

 

[Dr John M La Tourrette]

It has been quite well demonstrated that we, Humans that is, can only effectively interact with about 12-15 people at a time. And by interact I mean converse with. To actually teach the numbers should be about half that, say 6-8. Which, looking at Kacey's numbers is what is going on.

Thats why I feel sorry for school teachers who have to try to teach classes of 20-30 students and then catch a whole lot of flack when some students aren't doing as well as others.

My own classes, which are essentially private groups, have never been more than 6. I would be willing to go as high as 10-12 if I found enough people to show some interest.

I disagree, and here's why.

It's a concept called "grouping". You have assistant trainers (teacher's assistants) going around helping out specific groups of people (usually 8-10 people) so you can keep them on task.

This is done very well at huge seminars (I've been in them when there are 300 to 600 people there), that last 5 days, where one presentor demonstrates, and then the groups under the assistance of the secondary trainer does the skill experientially, and getting feedback from the teacher's assistant.

My point is, it can be done quite easily once the teaching tactic is known and practiced a couple of times.

It is also a bit out-of-the comfort zone of many people that fear it, so they don't do it because of that fear. Then they will rationalize a "reason" that seems logical for them to NOT do it.

Just a normal day at the office.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

As a student I prefer a smaller class, because you get more 1 on 1 attention. In my class, we usually have 10 students or less, sometimes a few more on sparring nights. We have three BB instructors, but not all of them come to every class.

 

[IcemanSK]

As a student I prefer a smaller class, because you get more 1 on 1 attention. In my class, we usually have 10 students or less, sometimes a few more on sparring nights. We have three BB instructors, but not all of them come to every class.

Great reminder. As a student, the BB's that are around the better.

 

[Perpetual White Belt]

Just a quick off topic question. What type of training do you teach for the 4-6 year olds?

Basic, Basic, Basics, and Basics! I also do stranger/abduction awareness and avoidance, anti-bullying, and I guess you call it attribute developement (balance, strenght, etc...)

 

[HelloKitty]

What do you consider to be the optimum number of students in a class? What about the instructor/student ratio?

I think it depends a lot on the instructor. Some people have problems putting attention to more than 2 o 3 students at the same time. I know a couple of black belts who divide the class after warming up and ask the highest ranks there to help the lower belts, because it's difficult for them any other way.

Some people, on the contrary, can manage bigger groups. So there it depends on the students being comfortable to practice the techniques in the available space, etc.