How many fights have you been in, so far, in your life?

[ThirdDegreeBurn]

I was in several fights during the six months I was on the streets (family kicked me out, long story) but I voted only one fight. Truth is, I would only consider a fight to fit the criteria you put if someone got injured. Many times all it took was demonstrating to the person that I am quite capable of defending myself or perhaps putting them into a control technique to get them to listen to reason.

As for the fight that I couldn't do that with, I started. I have no tolerance for guys who abuse their girlfriends or really, any girl for that matter. I see it, I snap. I'm not proud of it, but it's a part of who I am.

As for MA's role in fighting, I think the actual skill of fighting is the smallest part, personally. You learn, through martial arts, to focus, to concentrate, you learn your limits and, hopefully, you learn self control, enough so that when a situation presents itself to you, you can realize that you may not have to fight to get out of it.

Just my $0.02

 

[Ninway J]

Originally posted by ThirdDegreeBurn
As for the fight that I couldn't do that with, I started. I have no tolerance for guys who abuse their girlfriends or really, any girl for that matter. I see it, I snap. I'm not proud of it, but it's a part of who I am.

Interesting TDB. I've always thought about this subject.

This could be another topic for discussion or for another poll. How many of us would get involved, and it wasn't our job (security officer, LEO, etc.), if we saw someone else we didn't know being taken-advantage of?

I remember when I was going to college, in the mid-90s, and a news story of a female student being raped was made public. The story is that she was being raped, nearby the theater, by at least two men. There were people passing by, and she called for help many times, but no one came to her rescue or even went for help.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by ThirdDegreeBurn
As for the fight that I couldn't do that with, I started. I have no tolerance for guys who abuse their girlfriends or really, any girl for that matter. I see it, I snap. I'm not proud of it, but it's a part of who I am.

Huh. I'm wired that way, too - but a little broader, I can't stand abuse in general. Whether it's a man abusing a woman, an adult abusing a child, a person abusing an animal. I have to step up and do something - may or may not mean fighting depending on the situation.

Never crossed my mind to be proud or unproud of it, though. It's the way I was raised - there are some things a person can't abide and when those things come up there is no choice. Action must be taken. Pride doesn't enter into it.

Mike

 

[Louxcypher]

I worked in nightclub/entertainment industry for years, so there was always a special sort of individual who always has too much to drink. They are the worst kind to deal with. A few had to be shown respect and humility. And domestic arguements are the topper of all, they both go gonzo on you for reasons only a psychiatrist and the lithium/prozac fairy could explain.
I am 44 now and I have learned to stay away from all the streoid junkies, and adreneline freaks, which are prevalent in society today. Unless confronted with extreme measures, I bow out and leave. However, if confronted and no exit is available and there is life or death, then "I was in iminent danger, I was in fear for my life, (or familys life). Then I guess I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, if it has to come to that!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Welcome Louxcypher,

I agree with the Adrenaline Freaks. This is something that not many people understand.
:asian:

 

[Gary Crawford]

After the first time I stood up for myself the first time,I got stupid! I started standing up for other people who couldn't or wouldn't fight back.After doing that a couple times,the challenges came regularly,I walked away from most of them,but stupid crazyness took over if it was someone bigger than me,I couldn't resist.I did not always win,only about half the time. The last one was about fifteen years ago when a local drunk wanted me to get drunk with him when I wasn't in the mood.He was really big and not taking no for an answer.I figured he was about to hit me,so I exicuted a snap kick to the groin and missed!He took me to the ground with his hand on my throut( I thought he was going to kill me),I desperatly fought his chock hold until I got his pinckey finger dislocated.He came off me crying like a girl.I relocated his finger and sent him on his way,Man was that dumb!

 

[Tony]

I haven't been in a fight since I was 17 and even that was self defence from this idiot who had be in a bear hug! Don't know if you can count the unofficial sparring contests I had with my friend after going to the gym and sparring in class!
I used to get into loads of fights at primary school and for some reason I stopped and became afraid of confrontation hence why I was an easy target for bullies at Secondary school!

 

[Tony]

I remember my sister would get abusive with my mum and I was too afraid to stop her. And I do feel ashamed as I could have prevented all kicks and slaps my sister gave my mum. I also remember feeling ashamed when I lost my temper with my sister one time.
She had got mad with me because I was in the bathroom too long, because her friend wanted to use the toilet. I was having a bath and was rather put out by all of this! When I was in my room watching tv, she was shouting at me. I was trying to ignore her and this enraged her so much she started throwing objects at me! Now this was when I was about 21 I think at the time. Over the years I had grown taller than her and probably stronger but she was definately more aggressive than me! Well I lost my temper jumped accross the bed and slammed her against the wall. I think she might have hit her head on the wall. But she was calling me names afterwards. It was at that point I was feeling very ashamed at myself! I know a guy should never hit a woman but I was not in control of my temper and you could hardly call her a woman or even human, as she can be a real monster!
I would rather die than hurt a woman, potential girlfriend and I certainly would never hurt my mum as I love her!

Actually throughout my childhood my sister used to bully me alot and I was very scared of her! and even when I did fight back she made me feel it wasn't ok to fight back! So if I can't defend myself what chance do I have of protecting those I love all anyone else who desperately needs that help?
It doesn't matter that I've been doing Kung Fu now for 5 years and it doesn't matter if I get to Black Sash the sad truth is I think I will always feel like a coward and will never be able to defend myself if ever I'm confronted by an attacker!

I have to say though I have avoided a lot of situations that could have turned into fights but felt like a coward afterwards. I was in a club and I was standing not knowing I was blocking this guy's chair. Instead of him asking me politely if he could get to his chair he rudely gestured with his head for me to move! I guess he knew I would because he could tell from my nervous body language that would! And that makes me so mad because people take advantage of this and they can get aggressive with me and know 100% I will always back down!

 

[8253]

I had been in more than my fair share of fights before i got into Martial Arts. Most of them over stupidity, however i have since learned that 99% of physical fights are avoidable, even when defending another person who is unable for one reason or another to defend themselves. It could be as simple as just telling them that there is nothing to prove, or just telling them to back up and think about what they are really doing because most reasonable people will stop to think about it and realize it is the wrong thing to do. Then again sometimes people are not reasonable and it may come down to defending yourself or another.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I have never been involved in a serious altercation since beginning Tae Kwon Do about 20 years ago, because I consiously avoid causing trouble as much as possible.
I do remember coming home about 15 years ago with a friend of mine-home being my parents house at the time. I had been up all day, and justed to have a beer and relax. My brother decided to throw a party that night and invited about 30 of his closest friends (my parents were out of town). I was so PO'd about having to deal with so many rowdy youths that I walked into the living room, performed the mountain block from Kumgang form, and told everyone to leave. Didn't ask, told. My friend says they left within 30 seconds. He also tells me that my brother was crying to him to ask me not to hurt them.
I also work in a nursing home, and deal with many residents with Alzheimer's and dementia. While I have never and would never contact a resident, I have had to restrain some residents who have gotten physically combative. By that I mean they are actively trying knock your block off. I have had to use some aikido locks to keep from getting hit.

 

[Laxe]

I've never been in a fight as well. Being quite an aggressive person it got me in trouble when I was young until it was pointed out that such behavious was wrong - since then I've learned to use that aggression in a controlled manner through martial arts.

While my count is currently zero, one of the main reasons why I took MA up was because I know that in all probability in this day and age I won't be able to avoid at least one serious fight. Some people will simply not listen to reason as I have witnessed one to many times and I want to make sure that if and when I do have to fight for myself or for someone close to me, I wil bloody make sure I win.

It may sound absurd but that is one of the reasons why I learn martial arts.

 

[Ninway J]

It may sound absurd but that is one of the reasons why I learn martial arts.

Doesn't sound absurd to me. All it takes is one serious fight to put someone in a wheelchair for life...or six feet underground. It's best to be prepared.

 

[tshadowchaser]

That makes a world of sence to me.
With all that is going on in the world in general, and the ever present problem of being a random victum, it makes sence to study the ARTS for selfdefence and to prepare for the day , it might happen to you.

 

[Tony]

I have never been in a fight well not since I was 17! Which I am very proud of and the last one was really self defence! but I have a 34 year old friend who has been studying Taekwondo for only a couple of years, but he has always been very highly strung and quick tempered. This Friday night he was nearly in an altercation just because some upper class looking guys were looking at him! He was getting very verbally abusive and was trying to me and my other friends involved when all of us were not interested in getting into a fight. After all this time he still has not learnt self control and his Taekwondo training hasn't helped calm his temper. I know from what he says he gets very aggressive when sparring and makes excessive contact when he is not supposed to and his instructor had to stop him and make him run through his patterns!
I regularly spar now and I merely use that as a way of desensitising myself to being hit for real. Its nice to spar with people who are really good and any novices. I can see what they're doing wrong and tell them. I also compliment people on their good techniques as do other people when I spar with them, so fortunately there is no animosity and we all respect each other, just how it should be!

 

[Cruentus]

I have stayed away from this thread because I don't know what the definition of a "real fight" is.

Is it every little violent encounter that one has come accross? If so, then between being bullied in school, at home, criminal friends growing up, hanging out at the wrong places, and security work, I guess one could say I've been in over a hundred "fights".

But, I don't feel comfortable saying that because I don't consider me throwing a guy out of an establishment a "fight" per say. For most of my violent or semi-violent encounters as an adult, I felt in control enough where I don't know if I would consider it a fight or not. I usually don't count ANY of my school "fights" because most of the time my life wasn't really in danger.

Out of all the crap I have been in (which is a lot by some standards, and not a lot by others) I can only recall 3 times where my life was in danger, and I didn't feel in control of the situation.

So I might be inclined to say anywhere from 3 to over 5 on the poll, depending on the standard.

I think some thought should be put into what we would really consider a "fight." Just something to think about.

:asian:

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I do not even consider "stupid youth" fights as fights. I have said in seminars and such that I've been in more than 300+ "street" altercations. People think that sounds like a tretch, till you consider some of the places I used to bounce at. While many of them were easy "drunk toss" sportive ejections from the establishment, many were not: friends tend to jump in with furniture when they see you throwing their buddy out in a naked choke; jumping in to break up a fight often turns both combatants on to you, etc. Not to mention the several dozen times I've had pissed-off drunks come back for me with buddies after closing.

Here's some math: I would work the Tues-Thurs-Fri-Sat PM and Sunday Noon shifts in a place that averaged (due to overcrowding and an unusual amount of Snow for a So Cal beach community) 2-3 fights per night on weeknights and sunday afternoon, and 3-5 fights per night on Friday and Saturday night. These fights DO NOT include simple ejections (restraining holds, chokes, arm bars, etc.), but rather fisticuffs, often with more than one person. I worked in this place, and others like it, for the better part of a decade, cumulatively. In that time, I've been stabbed, cut, shot at (hit twice), whacked with chairs and bottles and plenty of purses, and so on.

Did the martial arts teach me not to fight? No, but my background in psych allowed me to talk my way out of many more than I got in to. Working in thiese sorts of places, you learn that combat is never clean; it rarely ever goes by the book, or according to plan. Most of the sophisticated, really cool techniques you learn will never apply. The more basic, grab-and-beat stuff, on the other hand, saves your a%#. Judo, boxing, and BJJ turned out to consistently be my best friends in clubs, bars, and "gentlemans clubs". If it weren't for having studied martial arts well-enough to apply them, while viewing them with an attitude of irreverence while training so as to be able to think and operate outside the MA box, I would have been toast at a very young age.

Additional Note: Lots of MA guys came and went, taking work to make a dime around busy school schedules and test their nettle. Almost universally, the hardcore traditionalists did not fare well. Those with a little MA mixed in with a lot of tude and a willingness to scrap to make their point did rather well. Did we lack MA philosophy? We didn't think so...it's what we spent all night talking about on the slow evenings.

Interestingly enough, it's as if the energy in those places needs a steam release valve. They either erupt in many smaller episodes, or in sparse raucous ones with a lot of malevolent energy behind them. Prefer to work in a pool bar with a handful of scuffs each night, then a higher-end club with only one good brawl a month.

 

[Ceicei]

Additional Note: Lots of MA guys came and went, taking work to make a dime around busy school schedules and test their nettle. Almost universally, the hardcore traditionalists did not fare well. Those with a little MA mixed in with a lot of tude and a willingness to scrap to make their point did rather well. Did we lack MA philosophy? We didn't think so...it's what we spent all night talking about on the slow evenings.

This caught my attention.

Are you suggesting the traditionalists are "restricting" themselves unnecessarily with their defense or that they are not able to look broadly enough at how others attack? I'm curious as to how you analyze (generally) the traditionalist view?

- Ceicei

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

This caught my attention.

Are you suggesting the traditionalists are "restricting" themselves unnecessarily with their defense or that they are not able to look broadly enough at how others attack? I'm curious as to how you analyze (generally) the traditionalist view?

- Ceicei

It seemed as if most TMA-ists had a strongly pre-concieved notion of what an attack should look like (i.e., step-through reverse punch, so they could initiate the first sequence from heian-shodan-type of thing). It seemed that the harder the style, the harder the time the individual had looking past their conditioning for independent/creative responses to novel situations...the more entrenched the response. The "exceptions" included TMA dudes with "hard-core" experience. I.E., we had a Polish guy who was Yodan in Kyokushinkai from east-bloc bare-knuckle background, and kickboxed semi-pro. Adapted well. Thai boxers, JKD and Urquido-kan guys generally adapted well. Even the guys from Norris' UFAF adapted well. TKD, Shotokan, Goju, etc...harder time freeing up their response potential to deal with something new (i.e., flying beer bottle, Galliano bottle in full ball-bat swing, chairs, knife, etc.). The FMA guys typically did very well with wide ranges of attacks, esp. in the tight quarters of cramped bars & clubs (spent much time gleaning what I could in off hours notes-comparison/training sessions).

It wasn't universal, however. Know a JKD certified instructor and Shoot-fighter who is also phenom at BJJ and FMA (Inosanto lineage...IMHO, an ultimate combination for preparedness in real-life defense), teaching law enforcement, special ops, etc. Got clocked in the head with a large beer stein and KO'd instantly (never even saw it coming)...was honestly one of the last people in the world I would have expected to fall to the attack; I respect the mans knowledge and skill immensely, still. I suppose even Achilles has a heel.

Regards,

Dave

PS -- My Grandpa used to say "It's not what a man can do in a fight by your side, but what he will do". Many a night under a dogpile, looking up at the NKOTB gawking at me while I'm getting thumped on; him being well-ranked, highly decorated, and paralyzed by either novelty or fear. Give me a willing bruiser with an ego problem and an ugly, busted up nose to work with, side-by-side, anyday. These experiences are one of the reasons why I take the adamant stance that # of years experience and rank + competition record don't translate for squat when it comes to throwing down successfully.

D.

 

[Bammx2]

I have to agree with Dr.Dave on this one.........if I may call you that

I started MA training at 6,got my 1st dan at 16 in Shotokan,(also a brown in judo) and my shotokan teacher was a tuff old bastard...we worked!
I started my first bouncer job at 15,purely ego driven..back in the days when we wuz invincible

...or so I thought.
Also...I did a lot of point competition back then.
I scored great in my first couple of bar fights!! and got knocked right out.
I worked the bar and night club industry for almost 20 yrs in a couple of different countries and got a great education in human nature.
I still swear to the traditional arts and still push for people to learn them,but I personally won'y rely on them anymore...cept for my training in kickboxing and grappeling arts.
In my limited traditonal expierience, and I say that because I couldn't have possibley been exposed to nearly a quarter of them in my life time,I have found that most of them train one particular way and that sets into "muscle memory", not to mention most of them don't train to recieve punches and prepare for the "sucker" punch as well as multiple attackers.
People need to understand that times change and so does the way people think.
Martial arts was created to defeated invading murauders who had no training and to preserve life.
What we have now are people who train to beat martial artists AND invading murauders.
We have to adapt....they have.
And we have to show respect to those who came before us.
For what its worth.....
I had my last fight this past easter....goood shiner!
I was helping someone who was being jumped,
But I ended the fight with a good ole fashioned reverse punch to the body.....God I love that one

Bammx2

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

...I started MA training at 6,got my 1st dan at 16 in Shotokan,(also a brown in judo) and my shotokan teacher was a tuff old bastard...we worked!
I started my first bouncer job at 15,purely ego driven..back in the days when we wuz invincible

...or so I thought.
Also...I did a lot of point competition back then.
I scored great in my first couple of bar fights!! and got knocked right out.

People need to understand that times change and so does the way people think.
Martial arts was created to defeated invading murauders who had no training and to preserve life.
What we have now are people who train to beat martial artists AND invading murauders.
We have to adapt....they have.
And we have to show respect to those who came before us.
For what its worth.....
I had my last fight this past easter....goood shiner!
I was helping someone who was being jumped,
But I ended the fight with a good ole fashioned reverse punch to the body.....God I love that one

Bammx2

Old grit with just a slightly sadistic leaning...Gotta LuvIt! (sure can't find much og it in the land of McDojo's).

Knew a cop named Ed Parker (no, not the Kenpo Ed Parker...Shotokan oldster). Used to drop our neighborhood kenpo "tough guys" with his thunder-clap of a body punch. Sent more than one home with busted fingers via punching the opened lead hand "en face". Ahhh, the joy of gruff old hard-stylists. WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!.

Dr. Dave (you can call me Dave . If I hold out for the Dr. part, Robert will call me pompous :uhyeah.