How many chain punches can you throw in one second?

[snyderkv]

Your getting faster Mook! Master Fung was scary fast!

The speed of your punch will increase the power of your punch. Mass x Speed = power
And yes, make sure to go back to your chest. More power and helps to keep you from getting latched.

As far as Wing Chun is concerned , assuming our stance is developed , speed is the main contributor to the equation .

If your stance is ok and you have learned the correct way to coordinate your punch with stepping , then a very large percentage of your body mass will be behind the strike.

Unlike an automatic weapon where you can change the ammunition , we can't suddenly start decreasing or increasing our mass.

Not without spending a fair bit of time dining at the " Golden Arches Restaurant " or putting in some quality time at the pub that is.

You can increase your muscle mass by heavy weight training , but in Wing Chun that can be counter productive.

So that leaves us with increasing our speed , this is done by increasing our level of relaxation through practice of the Sil Lum Tao form , Chi Sau and punching drills etc.

Either you did a lot of talking without saying anything or I'm not understanding your rebutal towards my theory.

I thought the "better to be thin" in martial arts was debunked decades ago after seeing huge guys in the UFC that also trained in the arts to become even more potent than a skinny guy with a little more speed.

And my wing chung coworker who is working on becoming an instructor in the next year does the hip thrust punch as you explained and it was more like a push and looked very innefective and useless in a real fight.

The problem about what your saying is that short punches can be powerfull given time in training. Ok fine, but longer chambered punches which WC is against due to them being telegraphed, will always be that much more powerfull given the same amount of training.

It's like the no replacement for displacement phrase thrown around in the car racing community. A 4 cylinder can easily beat a V8 but given the same time and money in the V8 it will always be ahead "potential wise"

 

[mook jong man]

Either you did a lot of talking without saying anything or I'm not understanding your rebutal towards my theory.

I thought the "better to be thin" in martial arts was debunked decades ago after seeing huge guys in the UFC that also trained in the arts to become even more potent than a skinny guy with a little more speed.

And my wing chung coworker who is working on becoming an instructor in the next year does the hip thrust punch as you explained and it was more like a push and looked very innefective and useless in a real fight.

The problem about what your saying is that short punches can be powerfull given time in training. Ok fine, but longer chambered punches which WC is against due to them being telegraphed, will always be that much more powerfull given the same amount of training.

It's like the no replacement for displacement phrase thrown around in the car racing community. A 4 cylinder can easily beat a V8 but given the same time and money in the V8 it will always be ahead "potential wise"

Its plain to see that you know stuff all about Wing Chun because you can't even spell the name of the system properly , its Wing Chun not Wing Chung.

What has the U.F.C got to do with weight training and its effect on Chi sau and Sil Lum Tao form .

Maybe your co worker is just crappy at Wing Chun and hasn't been taught properly.

Longer chambered punches maybe more powerful but it also gives me a chance to get inside and hammer your centerline.

Whilst a properly trained Wing chun punch is powerful , there is more to it than that , a lot of its penetrating effect on the human body is caused by the relaxed hand snapping into a vertical fist on impact.

This causes the strike to accelerate even more just before impact with all the force concentrated in a small surface area of the last three knuckes .

This has the effect of the strike causing internal damage whereas with other less efficient types of striking the force explodes on the surface of the target.

I'm sorry but your car analogy is lost on me , as long as ours gets us from A to B I don't really give a toss what goes on under the bonnet.

 

[mograph]

Here's an interesting article on the physics of punching, at least from the point of view of a karateka:

http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com/2008/09/hitting-harder-physics-made-easy.html

... it may be expedient to jump to the conclusion at the end.

A key point for me was to discover/recall that F=ma really means "apply a Force to Accelerate a Mass" ... in other words, it's about how much force we need to apply to accelerate the opponent's mass, not how much force we can generate by accelerating our own mass. Momentum and impulse are more important, it seems.

 

[snyderkv]

Its plain to see that you know stuff all about Wing Chun because you can't even spell the name of the system properly , its Wing Chun not Wing Chung.

What has the U.F.C got to do with weight training and its effect on Chi sau and Sil Lum Tao form .

Maybe your co worker is just crappy at Wing Chun and hasn't been taught properly.

Longer chambered punches maybe more powerful but it also gives me a chance to get inside and hammer your centerline.

Whilst a properly trained Wing chun punch is powerful , there is more to it than that , a lot of its penetrating effect on the human body is caused by the relaxed hand snapping into a vertical fist on impact.

This causes the strike to accelerate even more just before impact with all the force concentrated in a small surface area of the last three knuckes .

This has the effect of the strike causing internal damage whereas with other less efficient types of striking the force explodes on the surface of the target.

I'm sorry but your car analogy is lost on me , as long as ours gets us from A to B I don't really give a toss what goes on under the bonnet.

I heard this all before and they aren't just WC principals. Funny everyone mentions these techniques but nobody can effectively demonstrate them except in demos. I don't know Mike Tyson looked a little stiff when he swung but I wouldn't argue that he was doing it wrong.

Dodghing a haymaker and hammering a centerline sounds more like a point match then a fight ender. On paper it all sounds good but haven't seen much of that in professional or street fights.

 

[mook jong man]

I heard this all before and they aren't just WC principals. Funny everyone mentions these techniques but nobody can effectively demonstrate them except in demos. I don't know Mike Tyson looked a little stiff when he swung but I wouldn't argue that he was doing it wrong.

Dodghing a haymaker and hammering a centerline sounds more like a point match then a fight ender. On paper it all sounds good but haven't seen much of that in professional or street fights.

Oh God why do I even bother , have you not heard of the great Wong Shun Leung?
You do realise you are on a Wing Chun forum here don't you .

Now why don't you run along and get back to watching the roid ragers on the U.F.C because as we all know if its not in the beloved U.F.C it can't possibly be effective can it.

 

[Nicholas82555]

Chain punching and the volume thrown in the shortest amount of time means absolutely nothing without conviction and power. Targeted areas and built of the opponent should also be taken into consideration (ie Fighting Black Kings) Mas Oyama's Kyokushinkai World Tournament back in the 60s. Although the WCners were pathetic the point is power and target of punches.

Granted a style in tournament competition can be hampered by rules that may hinder certain techniques and target areas giving the opponent and advantage.

 

[mook jong man]

Chain punching and the volume thrown in the shortest amount of time means absolutely nothing without conviction and power. Targeted areas and built of the opponent should also be taken into consideration (ie Fighting Black Kings) Mas Oyama's Kyokushinkai World Tournament back in the 60s. Although the WCners were pathetic the point is power and target of punches.

Granted a style in tournament competition can be hampered by rules that may hinder certain techniques and target areas giving the opponent and advantage.

It means nothing without a stance and proper coordination from the waist , as taught in the Chum Kiu.

Targeted areas and build of the opponent are taken into consideration , which is exactly why we attack the centerline.

You don't go punching a heavy set man in the pectorals where there is muscle , you target the centerline where there is none.

Same as you don't go kicking him in the abdominals where he is likely to have worked on his six pack , you kick him down low in the bladder area where there is precious little muscle.

But the power to damage these targets has to be supported from your stance and correct coordination when moving in your stance , the arms and legs are only conduits to transmit your force from the stance.

No speed = no power
No stance = no power

Stance + speed = power

 

[Nicholas82555]

Excellent response)

 

[geezer]

And my wing chung coworker who is working on becoming an instructor in the next year does the hip thrust punch as you explained and it was more like a push and looked very innefective and useless in a real fight.

Coworker? First off, I'd recommend not basing your opinion on somebody that "orks cows"... whatever that is. Look at the short power developed by the best practitioners. Guys like Emin come to mind. His short punch can blow a hole through you. Same for his escrima teacher, GM Rene Latosa. Now of course it's easier to generate knock-out power with a big haymaker, but how much better to develop good short power strikes so you can get there first.... even if you aren't lighting fast.

The problem about what your saying is that short punches can be powerfull given time in training. Ok fine, but longer chambered punches which WC is against due to them being telegraphed, will always be that much more powerfull given the same amount of training.

Perhaps, but think how much more useful a good hard short punch can be... one that uses your whole body power in a few inches. Yeah, it's rare to see people do that really well, but anything worthwhile is usually uncommon.

 

[yak sao]

Ah ....the ol' "if it ain't MMA, it's BS" argument
Nowhere is it stated that the WC punch is the most powerful punch in existence.
What is stated is that the WC punch allows for optimum power while providing maximum protection.

Having been on the receiving end of EB's punch, (thank God it was a demo only) I know what a good punch can do

 

[mook jong man]

Hmm , orking cows , isn't that illegal in some states of America?

 

[yak sao]

Hmm , orking cows , isn't that illegal in some states of America?

Only the northern states.....damn yankees

 

[snyderkv]

Oh God why do I even bother , have you not heard of the great Wong Shun Leung?
You do realise you are on a Wing Chun forum here don't you .

Now why don't you run along and get back to watching the roid ragers on the U.F.C because as we all know if its not in the beloved U.F.C it can't possibly be effective can it.

Right, it's a wing chunder forum so I guess that means I must agree with every principal and keep feeding the fan boys with biased bull ****.

I'm simply stating my opinion. You don't have to cry about it.

 

[mook jong man]

Right, it's a wing chunder forum so I guess that means I must agree with every principal and keep feeding the fan boys with biased bull ****.

I'm simply stating my opinion. You don't have to cry about it.

There's no prizes for second best mate.

And you are entitled to your opinion even if its wrong.

 

[HonoluluDan]

Mass x Speed = Power


I'm using the facts from the 5.56 vs the larger 7x rounds from an AK47. Much more powerfull at 25%? less speed but more than 25% mass.

Anyways

and both would put you down. Size does not always best speed and technique. If I could get in two shots to a sensitive target compared to one wind up haymaker I would take speed every time.

 

[snyderkv]

and both would put you down. Size does not always best speed and technique. If I could get in two shots to a sensitive target compared to one wind up haymaker I would take speed every time.

Not true the 5.56 round may not take you down right away especially when they are drugged up. This has been an issue with some serving.

In Vietnam, the AK round would go through small trees that troops could use for cover. Not the 5.56 round.

Not saying the AK is better. I'll take the M16 any day. Just trying to clear that up.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Not true the 5.56 round may not take you down right away especially when they are drugged up. This has been an issue with some . . . . . .

Not true, depends on what the target is and where it's hit. Hit a big man in the chest, maybe not. A small woman in the chest, I think she's down. Hit either one in the face, they're both down. Placement of the strike is a big factor also.

 

[wtxs]

Not true the 5.56 round may not take you down right away especially when they are drugged up. This has been an issue with some serving.

In Vietnam, the AK round would go through small trees that troops could use for cover. Not the 5.56 round.

Not saying the AK is better. I'll take the M16 any day. Just trying to clear that up.

Right, it's a wing chunder forum so I guess that means I must agree with every principal and keep feeding the fan boys with biased bull ****.

I'm simply stating my opinion. You don't have to cry about it.

:hmm: ... he sounds just like you-know-who used to post here, and his user name starts with an "C".

 

[zepedawingchun]

:hmm: ... he sounds just like you-know-who used to post here, and his user name starts with an "C".

Can we mention his name, or is it taboo? Well, just in case, his name ended with an "x".

 

[wtxs]

Can we mention his name, or is it taboo? Well, just in case, his name ended with an "x".

You "rox" man :bangahead::bangahead::bangahead: